Teachers Lament Loss of Grammar. Some Students Say It Ain’t a Problem.

[Dashinka 24,800]

Becoming a dead art.  Sad.

 

By

Leslie Brody Nov. 20, 2019 9:00 am ET

 

A master class in grammar for New York City teachers started with laughter over misplaced commas in local newspapers.

It ended with pained revelations of just how little their students know about the basics of punctuation and syntax.

 

Whether in public or private schools, teachers worried that their students with bad writing mechanics would suffer in college and the workplace. Some felt torn between their desire to enforce the rules and their fear of sucking the joy out of self-expression. And many were uncertain about how to help teenagers who weren’t taught—or didn’t learn—the foundations of grammar in earlier grades.

 

“Socratically speaking, I have brilliant kids,” said Avram Kline, who teaches sixth-grade English at Fort Greene Preparatory Academy, a public school in Brooklyn. “But when they write, there are really staggering deficits.”

 

Eighteen teachers met for a class last week with Mary Norris, a veteran copy editor at the New Yorker and author of “Between You & Me: Confessions of a Comma Queen.” The Academy for Teachers, a nonprofit that seeks to support educators by exposing them to experts in a range of fields, organized the free clinic in the Manhattan offices of Scholastic, a publishing company.

 

Ms. Norris began with a lighthearted demonstration of her perfectionism, using a hand-held sharpener to create a fine point on a pencil. “It’s so sexy,” she cooed.

 

Then she led the group in fixing mistakes she found in the media. One problematic headline: “Cardi B on Raising Her Daughter, Bernie Sanders, and Coordinating Outfits.” (Cardi raised Bernie, huh?)

Ms. Norris admitted to a frisson of delight when she spots such errors. Pointing to another example, she stressed that “to put a comma between a subject and verb is a cardinal sin.”

 

Catherine Conley, a teacher at St. Jean Baptiste High School, a Catholic school in Manhattan, said that is “something my students love to do.”

 

As the day went on, teachers expressed more concerns. They said formal grammar lessons have fallen by the wayside because of time constraints, an emphasis on hands-on projects and other priorities. Schools focus on reading comprehension and material emphasized on state tests, they said.

 

Erika Stark, who teaches English at Bronxdale High School, said her supervisors want her to concentrate on meaning and analysis, not grammar, but she couldn’t ignore her 10th-graders’ mistakes. “It’s shocking to read their complete abandonment or complete lack of grammar,” she said. “I’m not going to send my students to college capitalizing every single letter in a three-page essay, or not using one period.”

 

Several teachers said they wrestle with how much to be purists about spelling and punctuation in the era of texting and Twitter. Their students often use abbreviations in homework, such as “u” for “you,” and some see a period as a sign of aggression.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/teachers-lament-loss-of-grammar-some-students-say-it-aint-a-problem-11574258400?mod=hp_listb_pos3

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

In a learning environment, these I think this is more a sign of changing times in the sense where we have more communication devices that transcribe our voices for us to text, so naturally, develop shortcut tendencies for the situations where we have to write, and those things get passed down to children through these every day household mannerisms. Should still try to teach them how to properly do things, however, even if in practice we don't, and often don't need to.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,382]

55 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Becoming a dead art.  Sad.

 

By

Leslie Brody Nov. 20, 2019 9:00 am ET

 

A master class in grammar for New York City teachers started with laughter over misplaced commas in local newspapers.

It ended with pained revelations of just how little their students know about the basics of punctuation and syntax.

 

Whether in public or private schools, teachers worried that their students with bad writing mechanics would suffer in college and the workplace. Some felt torn between their desire to enforce the rules and their fear of sucking the joy out of self-expression. And many were uncertain about how to help teenagers who weren’t taught—or didn’t learn—the foundations of grammar in earlier grades.

 

“Socratically speaking, I have brilliant kids,” said Avram Kline, who teaches sixth-grade English at Fort Greene Preparatory Academy, a public school in Brooklyn. “But when they write, there are really staggering deficits.”

 

Eighteen teachers met for a class last week with Mary Norris, a veteran copy editor at the New Yorker and author of “Between You & Me: Confessions of a Comma Queen.” The Academy for Teachers, a nonprofit that seeks to support educators by exposing them to experts in a range of fields, organized the free clinic in the Manhattan offices of Scholastic, a publishing company.

 

Ms. Norris began with a lighthearted demonstration of her perfectionism, using a hand-held sharpener to create a fine point on a pencil. “It’s so sexy,” she cooed.

 

Then she led the group in fixing mistakes she found in the media. One problematic headline: “Cardi B on Raising Her Daughter, Bernie Sanders, and Coordinating Outfits.” (Cardi raised Bernie, huh?)

Ms. Norris admitted to a frisson of delight when she spots such errors. Pointing to another example, she stressed that “to put a comma between a subject and verb is a cardinal sin.”

 

Catherine Conley, a teacher at St. Jean Baptiste High School, a Catholic school in Manhattan, said that is “something my students love to do.”

 

As the day went on, teachers expressed more concerns. They said formal grammar lessons have fallen by the wayside because of time constraints, an emphasis on hands-on projects and other priorities. Schools focus on reading comprehension and material emphasized on state tests, they said.

 

Erika Stark, who teaches English at Bronxdale High School, said her supervisors want her to concentrate on meaning and analysis, not grammar, but she couldn’t ignore her 10th-graders’ mistakes. “It’s shocking to read their complete abandonment or complete lack of grammar,” she said. “I’m not going to send my students to college capitalizing every single letter in a three-page essay, or not using one period.”

 

Several teachers said they wrestle with how much to be purists about spelling and punctuation in the era of texting and Twitter. Their students often use abbreviations in homework, such as “u” for “you,” and some see a period as a sign of aggression.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/teachers-lament-loss-of-grammar-some-students-say-it-aint-a-problem-11574258400?mod=hp_listb_pos3

sad indedd

[Dashinka 24,800]

1 hour ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

In a learning environment, these I think this is more a sign of changing times in the sense where we have more communication devices that transcribe our voices for us to text, so naturally, develop shortcut tendencies for the situations where we have to write, and those things get passed down to children through these every day household mannerisms. Should still try to teach them how to properly do things, however, even if in practice we don't, and often don't need to.

Language does change.  At some point in the future, we will be speaking "New English".

[Rosalind F 178]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Language does change.  At some point in the future, we will be speaking "New English".

Newspeak!

 

For me, it's already not easy to use proper syntax because rules in Russian seem to be different. And software can also have a hard time determining all the commas in all the right places!

 

But seeing "u" instead of "you" hurts my eyes. I'm getting old, I guess. 

[yuna628 9,717]

You know I kind of expect this nonsense speak from kids.. but when I see elderly people on social media jumble together some kind of bizarre txt speak that makes little sense, I just want to cry.

[90DayFinancier 910]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

sad indedd

werd up

2 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

You know I kind of expect this nonsense speak from kids.. but when I see elderly people on social media jumble together some kind of bizarre txt speak that makes little sense, I just want to cry.

Don't pick on Nature Boy. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,382]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Language does change.  At some point in the future, we will be speaking "New English".

Yall late to the game 

[yuna628 9,717]

26 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

werd up

Don't pick on Nature Boy. 

I'd never pick on a person with mobile-phone induced typo-syndrome. I am fluent in a variety of typo languages.

 

I'm talking about people that don't understand how to type at all but think it's a good idea to use all txt speak and of course, IN ALL CAPS!!!! My sister handed me a txt the other day and asked me if I could understand a thing the person was saying. ''Nope.. and I'm not sure they can understand it either..."

[Dashinka 24,800]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

I'd never pick on a person with mobile-phone induced typo-syndrome. I am fluent in a variety of typo languages.

 

I'm talking about people that don't understand how to type at all but think it's a good idea to use all txt speak and of course, IN ALL CAPS!!!! My sister handed me a txt the other day and asked me if I could understand a thing the person was saying. ''Nope.. and I'm not sure they can understand it either..."

GOTTA LOVE THE ALL CAPS SPEAK!

[laylalex 7,300]

I am particularly irritated by run-on sentences. No one is interested in your attempts to be William Faulkner.

[Dashinka 24,800]

Here is the best grammar/punctuation book I have ever read.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_&_Leaves

[Dashinka 24,800]

3 hours ago, Rosalind F said:

Newspeak!

 

For me, it's already not easy to use proper syntax because rules in Russian seem to be different. And software can also have a hard time determining all the commas in all the right places!

 

But seeing "u" instead of "you" hurts my eyes. I'm getting old, I guess. 

Russian definitely has different rules.  I am still very much a novice in that language and generally speak a form of Runglish when I am there.