IR1 - Joint Sponsor income shortfall

[Wuozopo 4,293]

58 minutes ago, Simon412 said:

My wife has lived in the UK for 5 years (4 years at submission of the I-130), would living in the UK for 5 years be considered temporary?

 

We do not own any property in the UK and have limited ties, it would be difficult to evidence the UK as a permanent domicile.

 

We have no way of showing that she has domicile in the US until we actually move back.

 

So, are we flogging a dead horse even trying?

 

41 minutes ago, Simon412 said:

Our joint sponsor has an income of $20,125, I believe but do correct me if wrong that the minimum required income is $21,137 for a sponsor with 1 dependant?

 

If the above is correct, can I use assets to make up the difference?

 

Let me try to offer some info from experience of others who have gone through London.

 

First off,  your spouse is required to be your primary sponsor even with no income. The law says sponsors must live in the US. So therein lies the Catch 22 domicile issue. The work around is showing intent to restablish domicile. People in London have done this (this is an assortment, not all useful to your situation) by---- showing their UK house is listed for sale, they have given notice at work, they have emails from apartment locators in the US looking for a place to live, same for realtors if looking to buy, emails corresponding with schools for the children, letters from relatives stating the family will be moving into their home.

 

Your joint sponsor, if single, has to meet $21,137 to sponsor you. He can add on his own assets to make up the shortfall. He has to fully qualify himself, not pool with you.  His shortfall is roughly $1000 so he needs 5x1000 ($5,000) in assets to reach the minimum to qualify.

If you have others who might sponsor but do not want to show you their financial business, they can mail it straight to the Immigrant Visa Unit at the embassy so you never view it. They would include proof that they are a US citizen, completed I-864, their latest tax transcript, and any other proof of income they want to add like employer letter or 6months of pay stubs.

 

I actually think the embassy in London would be favorable to your continuing income if you have solid documentation from the company stating your continuing job, the remote nature of your work for them, the salary in dollars, how it will be paid to you in the US, etc.

 

On that note, another thing to plan for with your employer is--- when you reside in the US, you pay US income tax and no UK tax, even if the employer is solely a UK company and even if you are paid in £££ to a UK bank account.  It's part of the US-UK tax treaty. Pay the place where you live. Your UK employer will have to get an EIN (Employer Identification Number) from the IRS. Yes that is allowed and easily done. There are two scenarios:

 

1) You are an employee. The company has to withhold US income tax, social security, and Medicare amounts from each paycheck and submit that money to the IRS each paycheck. They also pay out of their pocket have your Social Security. It can be done electronically or they can pay a company to submit for them. They must submit an IRS form W2 to the IRS and to you are the end of each tax year (Dec 31)

 

2) You are a contractor. The company withholds nothing. You are "self-employed" to the IRS.  You are responsible for submitting quarterly amounts to the IRS yourself to cover your tax, social security, and Medicare that would normally be held out of a paycheck by an employer. You pay your full social security amount and the UK company contributes nothing on your behalf.  They will submit an IRS form 1099-MISC (wage statement) to the IRS and to you at the end of the tax year. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wuozopo 4,293]

Typo above.  Employer contributes HALF of your social security contribution.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

You can use assets with no joint sponsor.

 

Your wife needs an address in the US.  A bank account tied to that address.  A drivers license.  Maybe a credit card or two.  You will need to show ties to the US or she will have to precede you and establish a residence.

[Simon412 2]

9 hours ago, Wuozopo said:

 

 

Let me try to offer some info from experience of others who have gone through London.

 

First off,  your spouse is required to be your primary sponsor even with no income. The law says sponsors must live in the US. So therein lies the Catch 22 domicile issue. The work around is showing intent to restablish domicile. People in London have done this (this is an assortment, not all useful to your situation) by---- showing their UK house is listed for sale, they have given notice at work, they have emails from apartment locators in the US looking for a place to live, same for realtors if looking to buy, emails corresponding with schools for the children, letters from relatives stating the family will be moving into their home.

 

Your joint sponsor, if single, has to meet $21,137 to sponsor you. He can add on his own assets to make up the shortfall. He has to fully qualify himself, not pool with you.  His shortfall is roughly $1000 so he needs 5x1000 ($5,000) in assets to reach the minimum to qualify.

If you have others who might sponsor but do not want to show you their financial business, they can mail it straight to the Immigrant Visa Unit at the embassy so you never view it. They would include proof that they are a US citizen, completed I-864, their latest tax transcript, and any other proof of income they want to add like employer letter or 6months of pay stubs.

 

I actually think the embassy in London would be favorable to your continuing income if you have solid documentation from the company stating your continuing job, the remote nature of your work for them, the salary in dollars, how it will be paid to you in the US, etc.

 

On that note, another thing to plan for with your employer is--- when you reside in the US, you pay US income tax and no UK tax, even if the employer is solely a UK company and even if you are paid in £££ to a UK bank account.  It's part of the US-UK tax treaty. Pay the place where you live. Your UK employer will have to get an EIN (Employer Identification Number) from the IRS. Yes that is allowed and easily done. There are two scenarios:

 

1) You are an employee. The company has to withhold US income tax, social security, and Medicare amounts from each paycheck and submit that money to the IRS each paycheck. They also pay out of their pocket have your Social Security. It can be done electronically or they can pay a company to submit for them. They must submit an IRS form W2 to the IRS and to you are the end of each tax year (Dec 31)

 

2) You are a contractor. The company withholds nothing. You are "self-employed" to the IRS.  You are responsible for submitting quarterly amounts to the IRS yourself to cover your tax, social security, and Medicare that would normally be held out of a paycheck by an employer. You pay your full social security amount and the UK company contributes nothing on your behalf.  They will submit an IRS form 1099-MISC (wage statement) to the IRS and to you at the end of the tax year. 

 

 

 

 

 

We do not have any assets in the UK, we rent as it was always intended we would settle in the US. Friends have recently returned on an almost identical basis but with more kids! It will not be hard to evidence our intentions as we have already been in contact with numerous schools, and sought out suitable property to rent.

 

Would $5,000 in a savings account suffice? She has a greater amount, which can be evidenced. Should this be added to the I864?

 

I am a significant shareholder in the company I am also employed by, as a financial advisor and company director. My clients are predominately London based and we have already sought out and obtained regulatory approval to continue with certain limitations. I intend to seek advise from a US based tax advisor, in order to make the most suitable arrangements.

 

Very grateful for your time and clear reply.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

14 hours ago, Simon412 said:

My wife has lived in the UK for 5 years (4 years at submission of the I-130), would living in the UK for 5 years be considered temporary?

 

We do not own any property in the UK and have limited ties, it would be difficult to evidence the UK as a permanent domicile.

 

We have no way of showing that she has domicile in the US until we actually move back.

 

So, are we flogging a dead horse even trying?

So we lived in KSA for 3 years and returned 2012, again for 4 years and returned 2018. 
Each time before we left we switched everything to a relative’s house.  Drivers license, bank account, credit cards, voter registration, vehicle registration and insurance, mobile phones, and investment accounts.  We kept all of that active for the 3/4 entire years.  We did not bank in KSA, we banked in the US.  
So when we returned 2012 I gathered all that, attached it to an I130 and DCF’d on that.  Domicile established, clear evidence that our 4-yr stay was temporary, all income and assets were in the US, and we intended to return from the beginning.  Same process, 2018, we gathered all that and established enough proof of intent to return that we were able to skip the I130 in favor of a returning resident visa.
 

We did not arrange a lease until after the visa was in the passport.  That part’s easy.

See what a “temporary” stay outside the US looks like on a paper trail?  Your wife needs some form of ties, usually financial and/or related to a place in a state that she can call her “domicile” to sponsor you, and if she did not maintain or does not establish something like that then there is no point in filing the I130 until she establishes one.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Nitas_man

[Wuozopo 4,293]

2 hours ago, Simon412 said:

It will not be hard to evidence our intentions as we have already been in contact with numerous schools, and sought out suitable property to rent.

If you have printable, dated evidence of those things, it will be your evidence of intent to re-establish domicile for your London intervew.

 

2 hours ago, Simon412 said:

Would $5,000 in a savings account suffice? She has a greater amount, which can be evidenced. Should this be added to the I864?

If you will read the instructions to the I-864 and do a practice of filling out the form for your wife, it may become clearer to you. Your wife as sponsor will be seeking to establish a salary or assets to cover a household of 5 (herself, 3 kids, the immigrant). That's $37,712.  To qualify on assets alone, she needs 3 times the shortfall. Because of no salary, she is "short" $37,712.  Three times that is $113,136 needed in cash savings. If you establish a continuing income from the same job, then your salary covers the $37,712 needed in salary or reduces it. Any shortfall after your salary is applied  could be made up in cash assets with the amount being 3x[shortfall].  Run the numbers. If you can't come up with that amount, then you need a joint sponsor.

 

Your joint sponsor does not have to cover anybody but his family and you. A single guy with no kids has to meet the guidelines for a "household size" of 2 (himself, immigrant). A single guy with two kids has to meet a household size of 4 (himself, his 2 kids, immigrant). The assets to cover a shortfall by someone other than your spouse is 5x[shortfall]. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Wuozopo

[Simon412 2]

1 hour ago, Nitas_man said:

So we lived in KSA for 3 years and returned 2012, again for 4 years and returned 2018. 
Each time before we left we switched everything to a relative’s house.  Drivers license, bank account, credit cards, voter registration, vehicle registration and insurance, mobile phones, and investment accounts.  We kept all of that active for the 3/4 entire years.  We did not bank in KSA, we banked in the US.  
So when we returned 2012 I gathered all that, attached it to an I130 and DCF’d on that.  Domicile established, clear evidence that our 4-yr stay was temporary, all income and assets were in the US, and we intended to return from the beginning.  Same process, 2018, we gathered all that and established enough proof of intent to return that we were able to skip the I130 in favor of a returning resident visa.
 

We did not arrange a lease until after the visa was in the passport.  That part’s easy.

See what a “temporary” stay outside the US looks like on a paper trail?  Your wife needs some form of ties, usually financial and/or related to a place in a state that she can call her “domicile” to sponsor you, and if she did not maintain or does not establish something like that then there is no point in filing the I130 until she establishes one.

The I-130 was submitted in 2018 and approved earlier this year.

 

I now only need to apply for the IR1 as far as I am aware. We both have accounts in the US and family in Florida, California, Colarado and New York. Our intention and as is stated on the original DCF filing, is that we will reside at a member of our families home in Miami.

 

My wife has a medical licence in Califaornia which we have repeatedly renewed whilst she is in the UK, and she intends to transfer to Florida on our arrival. She also has a driving licence though this expired as of 2 years ago, we believed we could revalidate again on arrival.

 

I will happily fly out beforehand and secure a tenancy on a property if this would help the process but had no intention until my passport is stamped. Would this be acceptable evidence of our intent to domicile?

 

I was concerned about finding a co-sponsor, which we have now hopefully resolved with the addition of the original sponsors assets. You guys now have me worried that at interview, our intent (depsite spending £1,000's and lots of time and effort) will be disregarded and we will not be allowed to return because my (US born) wife has lived outside of the US for 5 years.

 

[Simon412 2]

53 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

 

Your joint sponsor does not have to cover anybody but his family and you. A single guy with no kids has to meet the guidelines for a "household size" of 2 (himself, immigrant). A single guy with two kids has to meet a household size of 4 (himself, his 2 kids, immigrant). The assets to cover a shortfall by someone other than your spouse is 5x[shortfall]. 

Our joint sponsors income is ~$1,000 short, i understood from an earlier reply that providing the sponsor has 5x the shortfall in assets that would be ok.

 

 

We intend to submit the IR1 with current sponsor, she has provided me with her last 3 years tax returns and a completed i864. She has assets greater than $5,000 so i assume this will be ok?

Edited November 20, 2019 by Simon412

[Wuozopo 4,293]

5 minutes ago, Simon412 said:

Our joint sponsors income is ~$1,000 short, i understood from an earlier reply that providing the sponsor has 5x the shortfall in assets that would be ok.

 

 

We intend to submit the IR1 with current sponsor, she has provided me with her last 3 years tax returns and a completed i864. She has assets greater than $5,000 so i assume this will be ok?

I thought you were asking if your wife had $5000, would that be okay combined with your job.

 

Your joint sponsor appears to qualify, but the final decision lies with the officer who interviews you. Yes, her $5000 needs to be listed under assets and documented with a financial statement. I didn't see you mention you had proof of the joint sponsor's US citizenship. Consider getting tax transcripts for the joint sponsor instead of a photocopy of the tax return

 

Don't forget your wife must also provide an I-864 and the latest copy of her US tax return or a signed statement written by her why she was not required to file. (Because she was unemployed and earned $0 income).

[NikLR 13,227]

1 hour ago, Wuozopo said:

I thought you were asking if your wife had $5000, would that be okay combined with your job.

 

Your joint sponsor appears to qualify, but the final decision lies with the officer who interviews you. Yes, her $5000 needs to be listed under assets and documented with a financial statement. I didn't see you mention you had proof of the joint sponsor's US citizenship. Consider getting tax transcripts for the joint sponsor instead of a photocopy of the tax return

 

Don't forget your wife must also provide an I-864 and the latest copy of her US tax return or a signed statement written by her why she was not required to file. (Because she was unemployed and earned $0 income).

Joint sponsor needs to be LPR or USC. 

[Wuozopo 4,293]

2 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Joint sponsor needs to be LPR or USC. 

Aware of that. Assuming she is a USC. 

[Simon412 2]

7 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

Aware of that. Assuming she is a USC. 

Yes both my wife and sponsor (wife's aunt), are USC

[Simon412 2]

2 hours ago, Wuozopo said:

I thought you were asking if your wife had $5000, would that be okay combined with your job.

 

Your joint sponsor appears to qualify, but the final decision lies with the officer who interviews you. Yes, her $5000 needs to be listed under assets and documented with a financial statement. I didn't see you mention you had proof of the joint sponsor's US citizenship. Consider getting tax transcripts for the joint sponsor instead of a photocopy of the tax return

 

Don't forget your wife must also provide an I-864 and the latest copy of her US tax return or a signed statement written by her why she was not required to file. (Because she was unemployed and earned $0 income).

We have completed the I864's, the spanner in the works came when joint sponsor informed of lower than anticipated income. Hence I started this post in an attempt to establish alternative options, and thought as my employment would continue when stateside.

I just need to review the sponsor's I864 and provide documentation to evidence assets to fill the $1,000 shortfall.

 

Thank you all 

[geowrian 22,337]

20 hours ago, Simon412 said:

Do you know where to look for the examples? I thought I had read every guide available.

The NVC wiki has several examples in the "Domicile" section: https://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/NVC_Process

 

20 hours ago, Simon412 said:

We assumed that applying for a visa would be intent on its own, I guess I would be curious as to why anyone would subject themselves to such a process and cost if they then had no intention to actually reside in the country?

People have done it. Some people just want a green card, want to try to use a green card as some sort of super tourist visa, or even intend to live apart in the US.

 

8 hours ago, Simon412 said:

Would $5,000 in a savings account suffice? She has a greater amount, which can be evidenced. Should this be added to the I864?

It can be listed. $5,000 in assets equals $1,667 in annual income. That said, income and assets cannot be joined across sponsors. Personally I would not list it...it does not qualify her as a sponsor and such little assets may make one wonder about the public charge aspect. I think it has more of a potential to harm than help.

If the assets are more significant (keep in mind the the 3:1 income:assets ratio), then listing them might be helpful.

[Wuozopo 4,293]

44 minutes ago, geowrian said:

 

 

It can be listed. $5,000 in assets equals $1,667 in annual income. That said, income and assets cannot be joined across sponsors. Personally I would not list it...it does not qualify her as a sponsor and such little assets may make one wonder about the public charge aspect. I think it has more of a potential to harm than help.

If the assets are more significant (keep in mind the the 3:1 income:assets ratio), then listing them might be helpful.

He's talking about the aunt joint sponsor. (I had the same misunderstanding earlier)  She falls short in salary by $1012. If she doesn't list her $5000 cash savings, she won't qualify as Joint sponsor.