Possible Reason for Petition Return for Review

[~kiyah~ 14]

Ok, I posted this in the poll I created for the 221g and sending petitions back to the US but I also wanted to post it here to get your opinions:

I have been talking to several people who have immmigrated here about the possible reasons why my petition has been flagged and sent back to the United States. There is one thing that all of these people said that would definitely raise a flag in the COs mind prompting her to send it back to the US.

I send my fiance money because he does not currently have a job and it has been so hard for him to find a job in Morocco. All along I have insisted to send him money so he has what he needs, etc. To me this should show a dependency...nothing more. However, everyone else I have talked to says...no this is an automatic red flag to the consular officer and in this case they would have to send the petition back to the US for review.

Also, during his interview he was asked a question about money...he could not remember the question though...his answer was yes, she sends me money when I need something and for holiday gifts for my family. He answered this question honestly...obviously, we have nothing to hide here.

Now if this ends up being the actual reason why my petition has been sent back, I am not sure how to rebut this only to be honest in saying that I send him money when he needs something and for gifts for his family. Honestly, I make good money and want him to have what he needs and want to take care of him as he will be my husband. I have also signed the affidavit of support to provide him with money, home, everything he would need here in the United States. I see nothing wrong with supporting him now or after he arrives. All I can do is to be honest...there is nothing to hide about it.

I would think that if it were the other way around...him sending me money that would be a definite red flag of possible fraud.

What are your thoughts on this? Has anyone else experienced this with their interview/petition?

~Kiya

[mawelvan 0]

I would think this could be a possibility, I believe you have mentioned before that you are older, and with him not working, and you sending money they could view it as him trying to find a "rich" American. That is just one possibility, and while in all likelihood I am incorrect, you need to operate under the concept that they view every interview as a possible fraud case.

[~kiyah~ 14]

I would think this could be a possibility, I believe you have mentioned before that you are older, and with him not working, and you sending money they could view it as him trying to find a "rich" American. That is just one possibility, and while in all likelihood I am incorrect, you need to operate under the concept that they view every interview as a possible fraud case.

I absolutely agree with the need to operate under the concept of them viewing every interview as a possible fraud case. They certainly do not go into these interviews trusting anyone...and rightly so. I never in my wildest dreams though that me sending him money would raise a red flag...I would think it would be the other way around.

As for the finding a rich American theme...I certainly am not rich but I do make a good living doing what I do. I landed the job I have now way after we met and he asked me to marry him...I used to be a freelancer working contract jobs. And that is well documented in the original petition...the timeframe of when we met and when I got my permanent position where I am now.

Also, the amount of money I send is not a huge amount by my standards...but it may be by Moroccan standards. I pay more for my child support every month than what I send him.

I guess all I can do is be honest about it all if this ends up being the actual reason...I am the one who insists on sending him money. He never asks for it. I just hope that I would be able to rebut this when the time comes...if they are thinking of possible fraud.

~Kiya

Edited February 1, 2006 by Kiya

[Bosco 1]

I think if there was a pattern to the money rather than something that only happened at his birthday, Eid al-Adha and Eid al-Fitr, that type of thing, there is more of a likelihood of them perceiving possibly as payment rather than gift. I think it stinks that a generous gesture can be misconstrued... but this is what you might be dealing with.

As far as who is giving the money, I guess it could go both ways. If he was giving you money, it could be seen as him buying a greencard, or if you are giving him money, you could be buying a husband. Being that I know you, I find this so ridiculous because I think any guy would be blessed to have you, but it isn't me making the decision. I heard someone in another forum describe the older women with younger Moroccan men as a "boy toy" thing. I thought it was derogatory, but maybe this is how people see it. Throw many in the mix and that probably reaffirms this type of belief.

With the annual average income in Morocco so low, even a modest job here would be considered rich. $150 a month would be considered a large sum by many Moroccans and I know men who work full time and make less than that.

Rebecca

Edited February 1, 2006 by rhouni

[mawelvan 0]

It isn't so much that you may be rich rather just this whole concept found in many cultures that Americans are rich (too many movies, and television shows). Who knows though, the consulate in Casa seems to operate under it's own guidlines on who they hand out visas to. I was reading that one of the red flags at the consulate is if the fiancee is pregnant.

[jennieh 0]

I dont know but maybe they have the impression your paying him to marry you. I dont know but its amazing how they can think of reasons to deny. Sorry hope you get this reversed and soon!

[mawelvan 0]

I have a question, and this may be a little off topic, did you discuss what you two would do if he was denied? I hate to get to personal, I was just wondering?

[Jenn! 918]

Kiya,

We were in somewhat of a similar situation. For the six months that he was in Morocco, waiting for the visa to be processed, I sent him money since he was unemployed in Morocco. I'll have to confirm with him, but to my knowledge, the CO didn't ask him about his unemployment or whether I sent him money.

This motive for denial seems a bit odd to me, since many people going through other consulates recommend bringing Western Union receipts as evidence of a relationship.

On the other hand, Rebecca mentioned the "boy toy" comment that I also had the pleasure of coming across in that other thread. If this is indeed how relationships between American women and Moroccan men are viewed, then your theory does make sense. Money sent by you to your fiance could potentially be seen as a payment.

[Bosco 1]

This motive for denial seems a bit odd to me, since many people going through other consulates recommend bringing Western Union receipts as evidence of a relationship.

It could too that what raises questions at one consulate doesn't raise questions at another. I recall reading about scales used to measure hardship. Total speculation but it could be that the CO's have there own version of a fraudulent marriage scale in their mind... so while sending money has no bearing in one case, it could be age difference combined with money etc. that tips the scales in another case.

If anyone could figure this out, it would save a lot of people grief.

Rebecca

[chiquita 0]

My husband was never asked and I do support him. So far as I know this is not an issue. My freind who was denied last year and just received a visa for her fiancee sent all of her proof of support in response to the NOID.

[dawnnhatem 0]

I hope you get some answers soon about this before all this speculation makes you nuts. I wouldn't worry so much about the payments being a problem. I tend to think that its just when payments from the usc fall into a context that concerns them, then its a problem...like if he had a prior usc girlfriend that he recieved money from, or if he has brothers or cousins or someone that got you two together that had usc girlfriends that sent money. How soon do you think you can expect your case to be somewhere you can inquire about it?

[morocco4ever 63]

Wow Kiya, damned if you do and damned if you don't! I also send money to my husband, but it is such a small amount. We were told not to show it to them at the consulate, but I told my husband that if they asked he should tell them the truth, so he took in the western union receipts, but they never even asked.

Now here is the kicker, lets say if he was sending you money it would be viewed the same. I know this because the CO asked my husband if his sister had arranged our marriage...in other words they think that I am being paid! Like I said...damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I read either in their manual or in one of their telegrams (don't remember which) that a fraud marriage is hard to prove. So true. If they beleive the US citizen is being paid then they look for money exchanged, but it is much harder to prove that the man is lying to his wife/fiance to get the visa. I believe that in your case, if that is their thoughts, then they are simply dragging it out in hopes that it will discourage your SO and he will move on, hence fixing the problem. How cold they can be!!

I believe in our case they are going to be looking for money exchanged between his sister and myself. I think they will have a hard time finding it since there isn't any! Like I said...I have been sending him money! He even has a debit card to save on the western union fees. One other thing...I am having a surgery to have my tubes untied this month so we can have a baby together. Cost is a little over $5000.00. now why would I go through all of this and pay all of this money for a fraud marriage? Of course when they hear this I am sure the tables will be turned and they will think he is using me for papers...damned if we do and damned if we don't!

I know how hard this is, but I can see you have the will to hang in there! They won't win! I wish I could give you hopes of a quick resolution, but I find I am still stuck in this cesspool after over 5 months! So just take the time you have with your husband, forget this while you are there, and just enjoy every minute with him! Thats what we did and it helped tremendiously. Of course the visit has worn off now 4 months later....

And to all that post here and give Kiya (as well as myself) encouragement through either posts or e-mails, I want you to know that your support really gives us the strength to hang in there. Your all the best!

[~kiyah~ 14]

Wow Kiya, damned if you do and damned if you don't! I also send money to my husband, but it is such a small amount. We were told not to show it to them at the consulate, but I told my husband that if they asked he should tell them the truth, so he took in the western union receipts, but they never even asked.

Now here is the kicker, lets say if he was sending you money it would be viewed the same. I know this because the CO asked my husband if his sister had arranged our marriage...in other words they think that I am being paid! Like I said...damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I read either in their manual or in one of their telegrams (don't remember which) that a fraud marriage is hard to prove. So true. If they beleive the US citizen is being paid then they look for money exchanged, but it is much harder to prove that the man is lying to his wife/fiance to get the visa. I believe that in your case, if that is their thoughts, then they are simply dragging it out in hopes that it will discourage your SO and he will move on, hence fixing the problem. How cold they can be!!

I believe in our case they are going to be looking for money exchanged between his sister and myself. I think they will have a hard time finding it since there isn't any! Like I said...I have been sending him money! He even has a debit card to save on the western union fees. One other thing...I am having a surgery to have my tubes untied this month so we can have a baby together. Cost is a little over $5000.00. now why would I go through all of this and pay all of this money for a fraud marriage? Of course when they hear this I am sure the tables will be turned and they will think he is using me for papers...damned if we do and damned if we don't!

I know how hard this is, but I can see you have the will to hang in there! They won't win! I wish I could give you hopes of a quick resolution, but I find I am still stuck in this cesspool after over 5 months! So just take the time you have with your husband, forget this while you are there, and just enjoy every minute with him! Thats what we did and it helped tremendiously. Of course the visit has worn off now 4 months later....

And to all that post here and give Kiya (as well as myself) encouragement through either posts or e-mails, I want you to know that your support really gives us the strength to hang in there. Your all the best!

Shokran morocco4ever, I really appreciate it. It's funny how they asked your SO if his sister arranged your marriage...what will they think of next? And yes, my SO answered whatever that question was about money honestly...we have nothing to hide. If this turns out to be the reason why they sent the file back to the US, I will also answer it honestly. I have saved every single receipt for me sending him money through our our relationship.

Today though, I did ask him to get a receipt for the house we will rent when I go in March...becauce I will send him money to pay for that and it will be a large amount...much larger than what I send him on a regular basis. I want a receipt for the rent paid to go with the money transfer receipt. Just in case. I just wish I had thought of that the first time we rented a house in Morocco, I paid 700.00 for that house for 18 days. I have the money transfer receipt for it, but no receipt for the actual rent he paid.

And...maybe they want to see if he leaves me or I leave him due to all this extra waiting, etc. We have very strong wills and faith in God. Well, get ready for a shocking suprise Casa...WE ACTUALLY LOVE EACH OTHER, AND WILL NEVER GIVE UP

We plan on enjoying every minute we have together for my upcoming trip...every single second.

~Kiya

[cbd2cai 0]

And...maybe they want to see if he leaves me or I leave him due to all this extra waiting, etc. We have very strong wills and faith in God. Well, get ready for a shocking suprise Casa...WE ACTUALLY LOVE EACH OTHER, AND WILL NEVER GIVE UP

We plan on enjoying every minute we have together for my upcoming trip...every single second.

~Kiya

Maybe you should drive by the Embassy with a big sign, LOL!!! hmmmm, now trying to figure out what to put on that sign . . . must be nice . . . but get the point across!!

Regardless, enjoy your time in Morocoo.

I am about deciding that I will have to take a trip to Cairo soon if we don't get the visa soon . . . so hard to know what to do. But I am getting ready to dive into a project with "aggressive time lines" (what else is there???) and that will nix any travel for several months.

Sooooooooo, good luck to you, Kiya!!

Catherine

[~kiyah~ 14]

Maybe you should drive by the Embassy with a big sign, LOL!!! hmmmm, now trying to figure out what to put on that sign . . . must be nice . . . but get the point across!!

Regardless, enjoy your time in Morocoo.

I am about deciding that I will have to take a trip to Cairo soon if we don't get the visa soon . . . so hard to know what to do. But I am getting ready to dive into a project with "aggressive time lines" (what else is there???) and that will nix any travel for several months.

Sooooooooo, good luck to you, Kiya!!

Catherine

Shokran Catherine...it's funny you say that about the sign. We were just talking about everything the other day on the phone and making plans for when I'm there.

He said I will yell at the consulate: "My love is coming to be with me and you can't stop her...nananana!" "My love doesn't need a visa to be with me and you can't stop her...nananana! " "I love my wife and you can't change that...nananana!" It was hilarious, we were laughing so hard. We are really looking forward to this trip so much.

I really think if you have the time and money you should go to Cairo to be with him...my projects ALWAYS have agressive deadlines. Squeeze it in...really, I mean it. I am.

~Kiya