2 Proud Boys Sentenced to 4 Years in Brawl With Anti-Fascists at Republican Club

[laylalex 7,284]

Quote

 

When nearly a dozen members of the far-right Proud Boys assaulted a handful of black-clad protesters on the Upper East Side last year, videos of the fighting generated outrage and drew comparisons to similar conflicts between the right and left that had taken place across the country.

 

Those battles — in places like Berkeley, Calif., Portland, Ore., and Charlottesville, Va. — pitted far-right groups denouncing communism against self-described anti-fascists known as Antifa, who say that the right-wing groups are a threat that should be countered with physical force.

 

On Tuesday, a State Supreme Court judge in Manhattan cited that recent history as he sentenced two members of the Proud Boys, Maxwell Hare and John Kinsman, each to four years in prison, for taking part in a “political street fight.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/nyregion/proud-boys-antifa-sentence.html

 

Good -- I think four years is a fair amount of time for the violence these men let loose on the streets of New York. 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

15 minutes ago, laylalex said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/nyregion/proud-boys-antifa-sentence.html

 

Good -- I think four years is a fair amount of time for the violence these men let loose on the streets of New York. 

What about their opponents, denounced for the same behavior, similar history do you feel the same about the masked, police ignoring Antifa that appear to have been itching for a brawl ... I don’t understand their free pass

 

from article ...

 

“In cities across America these two groups have repeatedly engaged in violence against one another,” he added. “It became clear during this trial that violence is very much ingrained in the Proud Boys ethos.”

 

sounds mutual to me

 

 

 

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

9 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

What about their opponents, denounced for the same behavior, similar history do you feel the same about the masked, police ignoring Antifa that appear to have been itching for a brawl ... I don’t understand their free pass

 

from article ...

 

“In cities across America these two groups have repeatedly engaged in violence against one another,” he added. “It became clear during this trial that violence is very much ingrained in the Proud Boys ethos.”

 

sounds mutual to me

 

 

 

 

 

   Your answer in bold. They were masked. May not have been any identifying evidence on the video.

[laylalex 7,284]

This case is about the particular Proud Boys who were convicted. Anyone who participates in street violence who is not simply acting in self-defense or defense of others should face consequences. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

2 hours ago, laylalex said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/nyregion/proud-boys-antifa-sentence.html

 

Good -- I think four years is a fair amount of time for the violence these men let loose on the streets of New York. 

What about Antifa???? If you follow the links and do alittle googling then you then you can find the video of the altercation of 4-5 Antifa instigated and threw something at 2 Proud boys. Then it delved into a 4 to 2 fight against the proud boys and then back up came and Antifa got pummeled. Four years is a little much I think. 

 

 

 

[Dashinka 24,499]

It is interesting that an extreme leftist group calls themselves “Antifa” when their views are quite fascist.

[laylalex 7,284]

Well, I'm not commenting on Antifa and whether they were liable here because it's not members of Antifa who were convicted and sentenced. If the jury found that it was Antifa that was responsible for starting the fight, not the Proud Boys, they wouldn't have convicted these guys. I'm going with whatever the jury said. No one is saying that Antifa didn't take part, and in fact the articles I read make it clear they were also probably subject to arrest themselves. But that doesn't mean that these guys didn't do what they did, or that somehow they should have a lesser sentence. They faced up to 15 years! 4 years sounds reasonable to me.

 

Also, even if a member of Antifa threw a plastic bottle, remember that Hare was charging them at the time. That's reasonable self-defense to me -- some guy is running at me and I throw a plastic bottle. It's the guy charging me who's starting things, not me. This is not the only video that exists and if you see the one that shows Hare charging, you'll see what I mean. Nobody is a "good guy" here. Just it's not accurate to say these two didn't start it. Yes, this is from Buzzfeed but it's where I found a link that shows more information (look at the one in the embedded Tweet): https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/surveillance-video-proud-boys-new-york-fight

[Dashinka 24,499]

21 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Well, I'm not commenting on Antifa and whether they were liable here because it's not members of Antifa who were convicted and sentenced. If the jury found that it was Antifa that was responsible for starting the fight, not the Proud Boys, they wouldn't have convicted these guys. I'm going with whatever the jury said. No one is saying that Antifa didn't take part, and in fact the articles I read make it clear they were also probably subject to arrest themselves. But that doesn't mean that these guys didn't do what they did, or that somehow they should have a lesser sentence. They faced up to 15 years! 4 years sounds reasonable to me.

 

Also, even if a member of Antifa threw a plastic bottle, remember that Hare was charging them at the time. That's reasonable self-defense to me -- some guy is running at me and I throw a plastic bottle. It's the guy charging me who's starting things, not me. This is not the only video that exists and if you see the one that shows Hare charging, you'll see what I mean. Nobody is a "good guy" here. Just it's not accurate to say these two didn't start it. Yes, this is from Buzzfeed but it's where I found a link that shows more information (look at the one in the embedded Tweet): https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/surveillance-video-proud-boys-new-york-fight

Certainly not the same incident, but thankfully there are Antifa members also being prosecuted.  In the OP incident, I assume if any Antifa thugs were also arrested, they would possibly be tried separately.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/2/oregon-antifa-activist-sentenced-nearly-six-years-/

[Steeleballz 7,550]

6 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

It is interesting that an extreme leftist group calls themselves “Antifa” when their views are quite fascist.

 

  Suppression of opposing views is only one tenet of fascism. It does not necessarily define one as fascist. Obviously many ideologies tend to embrace this concept.

[laylalex 7,284]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Suppression of opposing views is only one tenet of fascism. It does not necessarily define one as fascist. Obviously many ideologies tend to embrace this concept.

Yes, and this goes for those on the right and the left. The words "fascism" and "fascist" are beloved by teenagers in describing their parents, without actually being true, for the most part. I'm sure there are actual fascist parents out there, but my mom and dad aren't and yet my sister definitely called them fascists when we were in high school because they didn't want to hear her arguments about why she should have no curfew at all. (I never called them fascists. I was a very well-behaved child. )

[Dashinka 24,499]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Suppression of opposing views is only one tenet of fascism. It does not necessarily define one as fascist. Obviously many ideologies tend to embrace this concept.

It may not be the only thing that defines a fascist, but it certainly negates their, Antifa’s, supposed anti-fascist narrative

[laylalex 7,284]

7 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

It may not be the only thing that defines a fascist, but it certainly negates their, Antifa’s, supposed anti-fascist narrative

Negates? I think that's too strong, personally. Weakens? Chips away at? That seems more accurate. If they actually embraced fascism or came close to a total embrace of fascism, sure, I'd agree it negates the message. But it's hypocritical more than it crosses out their message completely.

 

Again, just how I see it. While I am of course anti-fascist myself, I don't agree with Antifa's tactics at all. 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

The comparison is ludicrous, the far right snd left are not indicative of normal social mores, they both spew hate and espouse illogical radical beliefs F* em both

[Fogi 91]

Proud boys, emphasis on the boys,  is just a group of incels that  need jobs. Similar to antifa in that regard. The two groups do have that common ground. 

[Boketto 211]

I hate it when people don’t appreciate the fact that they live in a country where expressing views is a fundamental right as long as you do it in a civil way, and how mindblowingly valuable that is compared to many places in the rest of the world. Instead they feel the need to abuse that right by turning it into an excuse to beat and loot, or vent their pent up frustration through mass shootings. This sense of entitlement makes me much angrier than any particular political view they may hold. Women in some countries get murdered just for posting selfies with no head covering, while these stupid idiots here feel the need to throw Molotov cocktails at each other or shoot up a mall because they can’t communicate their views in a decent way.