'Don’t Tell Us What To Wear’: Japanese Women Protest Workplace Glasses Ban

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, NikLR said:

Why not? If they are unhappy with how their gender roles are defined, then they should be more equal. If that's what the women of that culture choose to happen, I'm all for encouraging them. I always find it odd that many Manga and Anime have very powerful women as leads and yet the cultural norm is currently about submission.  Women traditionally in Japan had a lot of pride and were samurai once upon a time. And now women in that culture are fighting back as they know how.  They are defying their cultural norms by not marrying, by purposefully not having children, and by purposefully choosing their path through life in a way that allows them more self reliance.  I applaud them.  They will have to deal with backlash to how their choose to live their lives which makes their lives difficult.   I don't want cultures to change their norms to suit the world.  I want cultures to adapt their norms to allow people to be happy as they are.  If they are truly happy as they are, this wouldn't be an issue. 

If Japanese women wish to rebel and make the change, then more power to them.

 

But some woman in the US who is living large on the alimony teat trying to affect change in Asia... not so much.

[laylalex 7,284]

20 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

 

But some woman in the US who is living large on the alimony teat trying to affect change in Asia... not so much.

Thanks for totally misrepresenting what I said, and what I clarified I meant. I said, women in Japan who are unhappy should be the agents for change, but I have no compunction about saying that I think it's BS for women to be treated differently at work in terms of grooming and apparel. What, I'm supposed to shut up and say it's okay because that's just the way it works over there? That smacks of cultural relativism. Is cultural relativism only a bad thing when it comes to certain cultures?

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

41 minutes ago, Boketto said:

Well... How would you feel if you were socially obligated to give away fancy boxes of bacon to *every* female acquaintance and coworker on Valentine’s Day? And on top of that you have to give an *extra* fancy box of bacon to your wife to show her she’s more special... 

 

No matter how much you love bacon, you’d probably get pretty tired of it...

She gonna cook it?

 

fair trade in my book

[NikLR 13,227]

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

If Japanese women wish to rebel and make the change, then more power to them.

 

But some woman in the US who is living large on the alimony teat trying to affect change in Asia... not so much.

Interesting.... Are you meaning someone specific or just US women in general?

[laylalex 7,284]

16 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Interesting.... Are you meaning someone specific or just US women in general?

I'm pretty sure he means me, specifically.

[Boketto 211]

2 hours ago, Randyandyuni said:

She gonna cook it?

 

fair trade in my book

No you’d have to pre-cook it so you’d be able to tie them into a bouquet with a ribbon  🤣

[laylalex 7,284]

11 minutes ago, Boketto said:

No you’d have to pre-cook it so you’d be able to tie them into a bouquet with a ribbon  🤣

This would not work in my household. We have not gotten to the bacon-cooking lessons yet. His bread slicing is now acceptable to me, however, so I think we have conquered sandwiches! Of course he's always been able to open a bottle of champagne properly, and that's what really counts. 🍾❤️

[Boketto 211]

1 minute ago, laylalex said:

This would not work in my household. We have not gotten to the bacon-cooking lessons yet. His bread slicing is now acceptable to me, however, so I think we have conquered sandwiches! Of course he's always been able to open a bottle of champagne properly, and that's what really counts. 🍾❤️

Sandwich making is an art form though... The layering sequence and the amount of condiment to apply need to go through rigorous testing! 

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, NikLR said:

Interesting.... Are you meaning someone specific or just US women in general?

Anyone. Male or female, who looks down their own nose at the norm that is Japanese (or any other) culture.  And to be clear, I don't agree with how their men treat the women.  But I don't feel I have a say in the matter.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, laylalex said:

I'm pretty sure he means me, specifically.

No, not just you.  Though you are a bit on the snobbish, judgmental side from what I see you posting here.  Which is ok, because you are a liberated liberal woman.

[laylalex 7,284]

11 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

No, not just you.  Though you are a bit on the snobbish, judgmental side from what I see you posting here.  Which is ok, because you are a liberated liberal woman.

I don't know, this seems to hit very close to how I specifically am characterized on here (including self-characterization):

3 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

some woman in the US who is living large on the alimony teat

How does this encompass men as well as women, for example? Why is an "alimony teat" necessary here if you're really referring to

15 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Anyone. Male or female, who looks down their own nose at the norm that is Japanese (or any other) culture.  

I'm sorry, this feels highly specific to me. Yes, I make fun of myself for being an "alimony queen" but you know what? Just because I had the misfortune of marrying and then divorcing a wealthy narcissist and receive a sizeable monthly payment which will stop upon my upcoming remarriage doesn't mean that I shouldn't have an opinion about how men in a particular culture treat women in that same culture, or that I look down on Japanese culture as a whole. I do not look down on Japanese culture, and I don't appreciate my words being mischaracterized again and again. You yourself say you don't support how men treat women in their culture, but I am not allowed to say the same thing? Why? What am I doing or saying or believing or espousing that is somehow greater and more terrible than just saying, I think this is BS. I'm not flying into Tokyo to spread anti-man propaganda literature. I'm not some misandrist reverse-Tokyo Rose on the airwaves telling women to rise up and walk out. I'm one voice on a message board who is being attacked for something I haven't even said.

 

I'm sorry for getting worked up about this. 

[90DayFinancier 910]

Why pick on Japan as sexist

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/31/opinions/sexist-seminar-controversy-smith/index.html

(CNN)"Women's brains are smaller than men's brains and women's brains (are) more like pancakes and men's brains (are) more like waffles."

This left me speechless on live television.

The analogy, which came from the idea that women have a harder time focusing because their brain absorbs information while men are able to collect and organize information into little compartments, was presented to about 30 high-level female executives at the very prominent accounting firm Ernst & Young in June 2018, according to HuffPost's Emily Peck. The company hired Marsha Clark & Associates, (not the lawyer), an outside consultant, to give a seminar it calls Power-Presence-Purpose.

 

Peck joined me on HLN's "On the Story" to further discuss what some are calling a blatant example of misogyny in the workplace.

And as if the waffle/pancake comparison wasn't head-scratching enough, there was also advice like, "Don't flaunt your body -- sexuality scrambles the mind (for men and women)," according to training documents obtained by HuffPost. The women were told to be polished and avoid "appearance blunders" such as plunging necklines, too-short skirts, bottle blonde, too much makeup, and even broken nails were discouraged. CNN has not independently verified the documents obtained by HuffPost.

Peck told me about a conversation that she had with a woman who attended the seminar and has since left the firm. "She said she felt like a piece of meat hearing about if she showed too much skin, she would distract the men she worked with. She was told not to look men in the eye because it would be seen as aggressive...

[Boketto 211]

36 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Anyone. Male or female, who looks down their own nose at the norm that is Japanese (or any other) culture.  And to be clear, I don't agree with how their men treat the women.  But I don't feel I have a say in the matter.

 Well, some social norms really suck. You can’t expect everyone whose lifestyle is not a 100% sterling representation of their views to just remain silent. If we reinforced that rule we’d have no political leaders left in the world. It’s nice that Layla is open about her life when very few people would let their personalities come through online. 

 

Also this is an Internet forum so we are all snobbish and judgemental by default 😉 

 

 

[Boketto 211]

18 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Peck told me about a conversation that she had with a woman who attended the seminar and has since left the firm. "She said she felt like a piece of meat hearing about if she showed too much skin, she would distract the men she worked with. She was told not to look men in the eye because it would be seen as aggressive...

Echoes of the 50’s...

 

 

 

 

[AlexSCC 5]

I joined only to post this briefly, as I've no intention of stepping on 'Layla's' toes. She's already had too much of men in her life telling her what she can and cannot do. My first instinct is, however, to protect her. She has more grace than I would in taking some of the heat turned on her, another reason why I have no business taking part in discussion here. You may not see how she reacts, but I can. We've had rather a rough afternoon with some news she didn't want to hear. Her worse half asks only that you treat her a little kindly. I've tucked her in with some whisky and one of the appalling romance novels she favours. I'm certain to get plenty of stick from her for posting this, but I'm willing to take such a lashing.