Amnesty? What amnesty? Critics substitute fear for facts

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Every time I see a thread like this I think ''how can people like that (in favor of illegal immigration) exist'' , well, maybe it's because they have employees that are illegal and having them deported would be bad for their business, maybe they have friends, family, they got attached to and it would ''suck'' to have them go, still that's no excuse for agreeing with them staying. I just can't understand a rational American not being against illegal immigration, specially someone who went through this painfull, expensive visa process to bring their SO here legally.

i think some americans are not as paranoic as others, who think illegal immigrants will suddenly turn the US into a mad-max scene or something... I've been throught the visa process (and I'm not done yet), but, there's not a direct relationship on how fast i got my green card with the illegals.. if they were skipping the line, hell yeah i'd be pissed.. but, it's apples and oranges...

Most illegals don't undergo a background check or medical exam.... so the sky's the limit for diseases and criminal history for the illegals. That's the problem.

[Donna A 4]

im sure bush employs a bunch of illegals and thats why he has braught up this illegal #######.

[natty bumppo 297]

i think some americans are not as paranoic as others, who think illegal immigrants will suddenly turn the US into a mad-max scene or something... I've been throught the visa process (and I'm not done yet), but, there's not a direct relationship on how fast i got my green card with the illegals.. if they were skipping the line, hell yeah i'd be pissed.. but, it's apples and oranges... the idea of 'If I've been through all this sh!t, then others have too', i just don't take it like that..

besides, that is a wrong accussation, of thinking that people who aren't against illegal immigration or the bills or amnesties, is involved in it, therefore a criminal.. it's just another bush-like 'if u don think like us, ur against us"

don't you mean:

illegal alien

invader of a foreign/ sovereign nation

will you be upset if an illegal alien gets a valid green card ... and you don't?

[Nessa 23]

I usually avoid answering threads like this because really, I don't see a point for people to keep arguing about illegal immigration. It's like hitting your head against the wall. It's a subject that will never end. I honestly doubt that the fight against illegal immigration will reach a positive end anytime soon. Not when people like Steve keeps trying to find alternative and encouraging a crime to go on. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is illegal, they're breaking the law, therefore it is a crime. Why even bother discussing it? In a perfect world there would be no illegal immigration, but we're far from that, aren't we?

Edited June 9, 2007 by nessaandcharles

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

hey if y'all gonna just give sh!t to steven instead of discuss, why not close the topic, he's trying to discuss something and everybody's just calling him an enabler, crazy, 'shame on you' (that was fukcin hilarious!!), and ####### like that, so if noone's discussing and only want to throw the ad-hominem's.. close this mofo'

He's not discussing anything. Hasn't responded to any one question thrown his way but rather repeated the same old tired line. That ain't debating it's hoping to make a point valid by simply repeating it.

That's really unfair. I think my posts speak for themselves. Reinhard, there's a lot of subjects that we've agreed or disagreed on in the past but I believe we share a mutual respect for one another. I think most of us here who regularly post in OT feel a certain comraderie that in spite of the different points of view, we all are friendly with one another. I hope that we don't lose that here or these discussions will no longer be enjoyable.

On this subject, Steven, you haven't been reding anything anyone said that didn't agree with your opinion. It's been said over and over on this thread and numerous others, for example, that there are alternatives to mass deportation. And yet you keep coming back sounding like a broken record saying that mass deportation is not an option. Nobody here says that it is. You just ignore that.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Every time I see a thread like this I think ''how can people like that (in favor of illegal immigration) exist'' , well, maybe it's because they have employees that are illegal and having them deported would be bad for their business, maybe they have friends, family, they got attached to and it would ''suck'' to have them go, still that's no excuse for agreeing with them staying. I just can't understand a rational American not being against illegal immigration, specially someone who went through this painfull, expensive visa process to bring their SO here legally.

i think some americans are not as paranoic as others, who think illegal immigrants will suddenly turn the US into a mad-max scene or something... I've been throught the visa process (and I'm not done yet), but, there's not a direct relationship on how fast i got my green card with the illegals.. if they were skipping the line, hell yeah i'd be pissed.. but, it's apples and oranges... the idea of 'If I've been through all this sh!t, then others have too', i just don't take it like that..

besides, that is a wrong accussation, of thinking that people who aren't against illegal immigration or the bills or amnesties, is involved in it, therefore a criminal.. it's just another bush-like 'if u don think like us, ur against us"

Vote for Pedroh!

[pedroh 21]

Every time I see a thread like this I think ''how can people like that (in favor of illegal immigration) exist'' , well, maybe it's because they have employees that are illegal and having them deported would be bad for their business, maybe they have friends, family, they got attached to and it would ''suck'' to have them go, still that's no excuse for agreeing with them staying. I just can't understand a rational American not being against illegal immigration, specially someone who went through this painfull, expensive visa process to bring their SO here legally.

i think some americans are not as paranoic as others, who think illegal immigrants will suddenly turn the US into a mad-max scene or something... I've been throught the visa process (and I'm not done yet), but, there's not a direct relationship on how fast i got my green card with the illegals.. if they were skipping the line, hell yeah i'd be pissed.. but, it's apples and oranges... the idea of 'If I've been through all this sh!t, then others have too', i just don't take it like that..

besides, that is a wrong accussation, of thinking that people who aren't against illegal immigration or the bills or amnesties, is involved in it, therefore a criminal.. it's just another bush-like 'if u don think like us, ur against us"

Vote for Pedroh!

well.. that's what the anti-illegal aliens media wants to portray, a post-apocaliptic America where brow people who speak spanish will rule because all they do is loot and kill...

again.. illegals jumping the fence don't affect how fast the process ur paperwork at Lee's Summit, MO.. the officers are not 'ohh another 100 people jumped the fence, I'm not processiing jack today'.. so, the idea of 'I've been through all of this!! if I do it the right way, everybody has to!' it's childlish...

and now this.. thinking that because u are not against illegal immigration u are one of them, or u support a criminal action is ludicrous!! there's people who support hate groups, and are they considered criminals? no.. and they get involved sometimes, and they ain't treated like that..

it is one thing to talk about the real threats of illegal immigration, and another to become a wannabe-immigration expert and start spitting all those generalizations about the illegals.. now it looks like it's accepted to call all the illegals criminals, rapists, killers, etc.. and while some of you have the 'real facts' and tell 'oh yea the illegal pop has a higher rate of crime than the USC's' most of what I see now is not a civilized debate defending that fact, but just rants and whines about the 'criminals, rapists, etc' and the 'enablers', just a bunch of generalizations that polarize this website, as it's polarizing the US, because of irresponsible people who just want to convert this situation into a 'good guys' vs 'enabler of criminals'...

I really don't have a stand concerning the illegal immigration debate, because I doesn't affect me, yea yea, the illegals going to hospitals are a 'waste' from my taxes. but I prefer my taxes helping sick people that didn't have hte luck of getting a visa or be born here, rather than for other things (as this war for 'freedom').. but I will always defend their basic rights, yeah, that even if they jumped into the country, they deserved to be treated like human beings, who have families and kids, not just this 100% evil people that are trying to screw Joe Schmoe or steal something...

noone realize some of us still have relatives in Mexico.. and no, they really don't even think of living in the US, and with those generalization a lot of people make here, noone realizes how hurtful is to read them everyday..

[Nessa 23]

noone realize some of us still have relatives in Mexico.. and no, they really don't even think of living in the US, and with those generalization a lot of people make here, noone realizes how hurtful is to read them everyday..

wow, stop right there. Since when illegal immigration equals mexicans? I never said all mexicans are criminals and all mexicans want to come to the States illegally. There're a lot of illegals here from several countries, including Brazil. Do I support them? No. Do I think all brazilians are criminals based on a minority that comes to the States illegaly? no. Maybe you got it wrong, but I don't blame Mexico in particular for the illegal immigration situation United States has been facing, actually I blame the United States for not taking care of it back then when it wasn't a huge issue. Mexico just happened to be a country that borders here, which makes easier for them to get here. Don't take it as an insult against mexicans. I have no problems with mexicans, but I do have a problem with illegals in the country I live. You may call me a wannabe, you may think ''hey, she's not even american''. But today this is also my country, my husband's country and when we have kids this (and Brazil obviously) will be their country. Is it wrong being against something that affect us? Is it wrong not being sympathetic to people that have no problem with it? That think everything is ok? I'm sorry, for me it's just like seeing a crack dealer outside my kid's school and doing nothing about it.

And lastly, I am not sorry about expressing my opinion, be against it, call me whatever you wanna call me, I think it is wrong, I don't support it and period.

[pedroh 21]

noone realize some of us still have relatives in Mexico.. and no, they really don't even think of living in the US, and with those generalization a lot of people make here, noone realizes how hurtful is to read them everyday..

wow, stop right there. Since when illegal immigration equals mexicans? I never said all mexicans are criminals and all mexicans want to come to the States illegally. There're a lot of illegals here from several countries, including Brazil. Do I support them? No. Do I think all brazilians are criminals based on a minority that comes to the States illegaly? no. Maybe you got it wrong, but I don't blame Mexico in particular for the illegal immigration situation United States has been facing, actually I blame the United States for not taking care of it back then when it wasn't a huge issue. Mexico just happened to be a country that borders here, which makes easier for them to get here. Don't take it as an insult against mexicans. I have no problems with mexicans, but I do have a problem with illegals in the country I live. You may call me a wannabe, you may think ''hey, she's not even american''. But today this is also my country, my husband's country and when we have kids this (and Brazil obviously) will be their country. Is it wrong being against something that affect us? Is it wrong not being sympathetic to people that have no problem with it? That think everything is ok? I'm sorry, for me it's just like seeing a crack dealer outside my kid's school and doing nothing about it.

And lastly, I am not sorry about expressing my opinion, be against it, call me whatever you wanna call me, I think it is wrong, I don't support it and period.

oh, im not talking about you.. im sorry if u felt it was directed towards you.. no. fortunately there are people who can debate it civilized.. and yes, you are right about those generalizations.. not all illegals = mexicans.. that's what I'd like to think, unfortunately I've seen a lot of commentaries here that are hurtful but they just see it as a 'joke' or plain xenophobic comments from people like addie_goodvibes

and no it's not wrong being against another opinion, problem is a lot of people instead of debating with opinions, start getting all emotional and use of the media paranoia that u can see on the tv.. i.e. everything that lou dobb says is right according to a lot of people.. lol..

Edited June 9, 2007 by pedroh

[natty bumppo 297]

noone realize some of us still have relatives in Mexico.. and no, they really don't even think of living in the US, and with those generalization a lot of people make here, noone realizes how hurtful is to read them everyday..

wow, stop right there. Since when illegal immigration equals mexicans? I never said all mexicans are criminals and all mexicans want to come to the States illegally. There're a lot of illegals here from several countries, including Brazil. Do I support them? No. Do I think all brazilians are criminals based on a minority that comes to the States illegaly? no. Maybe you got it wrong, but I don't blame Mexico in particular for the illegal immigration situation United States has been facing, actually I blame the United States for not taking care of it back then when it wasn't a huge issue. Mexico just happened to be a country that borders here, which makes easier for them to get here. Don't take it as an insult against mexicans. I have no problems with mexicans, but I do have a problem with illegals in the country I live. You may call me a wannabe, you may think ''hey, she's not even american''. But today this is also my country, my husband's country and when we have kids this (and Brazil obviously) will be their country. Is it wrong being against something that affect us? Is it wrong not being sympathetic to people that have no problem with it? That think everything is ok? I'm sorry, for me it's just like seeing a crack dealer outside my kid's school and doing nothing about it.

And lastly, I am not sorry about expressing my opinion, be against it, call me whatever you wanna call me, I think it is wrong, I don't support it and period.

nessa, well said!

I to don't care where the illegal alien is from. If they are from MX, then go home. If they are from BR, CA, EC, wherever ... go home. I don't want to support them and believe they belong in their own country until they process the proper paperwork to be here.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

to help secure our borders, meet the michigan border patrol.....

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I think pedroh's the only one that keeps equating illegals to Mexico. ZOMG!

[pedroh 21]

to help secure our borders, meet the michigan border patrol.....

LOL

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

... there's not a direct relationship on how fast i got my green card with the illegals.. if they were skipping the line, hell yeah i'd be pissed.. but, it's apples and oranges...

Really? There's going to be another agency that handles the millions of applications that an amnesty would produce? I didn't know that. Looking at figures provided in another thread, it seems that the USCIS was overworked processing, what, in the range of 10% of the volume that would be coming it's way with an amnesty. After all, the other thread quoted these numbers:

The Migration Policy Institue has some numbers that are worth looking at:

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/FS16_U...tion_051807.pdf

LPR's from 2002-2006

Employer Sponsored 163,000

Family Sponsored 648,000

That's just over 800,000 applications in 4 years or 200,000 per annum. And that same agency that has applications backlogged already under this relatively light burden will now handle anywhere from 6-12 million cases? At the rate it is going today, that would take 30-60 years (that's assuming that no more of the current family and employment based applications are processed anymore and not counting the additional 200,000 - 400,000 work visa applications that would flood the system on top of that). So, really, with the system as it is, this amnesty cannot be accomplished.

I remember someone mentioned something in the neighborhood of 72 years it would alledgedly take to deport them all presuming we leave everything as is in the court system. At the end of the day it seems that either way, we're looking at decades or even a century to have a fix in place. And you and I and anyone else that ain't absolutely, positively done with the USCIS by the time those applications hit the agency will be pulling up a very comfortable chair as the processes will take years as opposed to months going forward. You're fooling yourself and others if you think that this would have no effect on your process. Those ain't apples and oranges as long as these cases are processed on the same desks. I have no indication that any agency other than the USCIS would be tasked to handle these cases.

Edited June 10, 2007 by ET-US2004

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

here's some food for thought for those who think illegals should stay:

- how much of the gnp is driven by consumer spending?

- how much money is sent out of the usa by illegals to their home country?

- is it false to assume that were illegals not siphoning money out of the usa, that consumer spending would rise?

- how much does each illegal cost the usa taxpayer?

- is there no correlation between illegal labor and decreased wages?

- is it false to assume that the correlation between cheap labor = depressed wages for the rest of the usa?

an example of the last one:

10 million jobs done cheaper by illegals. that displaces 10 million potential americans/legal immigrants that would do that job. that 10 million potential americans/legal immigrants is added into the pool of potential workers, making life very good for business. they have a simple case of excessive supply of workers and few jobs. hence wages are lower due to this.

and don't try to feed me that tired old line of the illegals are doing jobs americans won't do.

bump.............still no takers