Amnesty? What amnesty? Critics substitute fear for facts

[pedroh 21]

So what happen to legal immigration? It's where we all stand in line the old fashion way, we where taught when we were in school, those that try to cut the line are sent to the rear of the line.

I'm not sure how others at VJ feel, but we WAITED. Say no to any bill that allows AMMNESTY. I know there are others; with pending cases for family members waiting for visa's to be issued... But nope we are told to wait while others who have broken the law are rewarded with AMMNESTY. --

the life of an illegal... just peachy keen!

not. nyet nope.

move along. nothing new here.

Daniel

:energetic:

its all about the bling

Edited June 9, 2007 by pedroh

[pedroh 21]

hey if y'all gonna just give sh!t to steven instead of discuss, why not close the topic, he's trying to discuss something and everybody's just calling him an enabler, crazy, 'shame on you' (that was fukcin hilarious!!), and ####### like that, so if noone's discussing and only want to throw the ad-hominem's.. close this mofo'

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm all for amnesty, but my amnesty would go like this:

Illegals have 90 days amnesty to leave the country. Employers have 90 days to cut them loose. After that, it's a felony and a long prison sentence for noncompliance.

It's all about motivation, peeps.

[pedroh 21]

I'm all for amnesty, but my amnesty would go like this:

Illegals have 90 days amnesty to leave the country. Employers have 90 days to cut them loose. After that, it's a felony and a long prison sentence for noncompliance.

It's all about motivation, peeps.

the main problem i see wit that, is that I don't think there's enough transports to move 12 million (or 20 or whatever) in 90 days.. unless u wanna heard them like cattle in big trucks or something, and, no.. that'd be inhuman, again, even illegals have basic rights.. and trying to ship them all back through fedex or UPS is not an option..

[natty bumppo 297]

I'm all for amnesty, but my amnesty would go like this:

Illegals have 90 days amnesty to leave the country. Employers have 90 days to cut them loose. After that, it's a felony and a long prison sentence for noncompliance.

It's all about motivation, peeps.

the main problem i see wit that, is that I don't think there's enough transports to move 12 million (or 20 or whatever) in 90 days.. unless u wanna heard them like cattle in big trucks or something, and, no.. that'd be inhuman, again, even illegals have basic rights.. and trying to ship them all back through fedex or UPS is not an option..

it doesn't need to be a huge ... "all aboard" transport. A phased move out process with incentives for voluntary departure (you get to keep your assets - non seizure or forfeiture thereof) will work.

[mawilson 2,133]

the main problem i see wit that, is that I don't think there's enough transports to move 12 million (or 20 or whatever) in 90 days

I'm sure some people would say that 90 days is plenty of time to walk across the border in the opposite direction -

from any part of the country. (It only takes 180 days to walk from New York to San Francisco.)

[homesick_american 1]

Every discussion of illegal immigrants that we have seems to get reduced down to simplistic, emotionally driven answers rather than well thought out solutions. And everytime a rational solution is offered, the argument goes back to, "they don't deserve to be here." That's when all chances of having a reasonable discussion fly out the door. If people want to drive these discussions solely on that slogan, then it's fruitless to continue this discussion.

You confuse the refusal to capitulate and surrender to a lawless crowd with being closed off to a reasonable discussion on this issue. Amnesty is not the answer to the problem but rather makes the problem a bigger one - we've learned that over the course of the last 20 years. Most of us have.

I would like to believe that most people understand that there are gray areas within our laws and that not all issues pertaining to legal matters is black and white.

What gray areas are you referring to? The deportation orders that illegal aliens have evaded? Maybe that's why these folks evaded the orders because the courts have really not meant for them to actually leave. Are you drinking this early in the morning, Steve?

No, but I'm feeling dizzy with these circular arguments.

Then quit making them.

LOL awesome!!!! :thumbs:

[pedroh 21]

I'm all for amnesty, but my amnesty would go like this:

Illegals have 90 days amnesty to leave the country. Employers have 90 days to cut them loose. After that, it's a felony and a long prison sentence for noncompliance.

It's all about motivation, peeps.

the main problem i see wit that, is that I don't think there's enough transports to move 12 million (or 20 or whatever) in 90 days.. unless u wanna heard them like cattle in big trucks or something, and, no.. that'd be inhuman, again, even illegals have basic rights.. and trying to ship them all back through fedex or UPS is not an option..

it doesn't need to be a huge ... "all aboard" transport. A phased move out process with incentives for voluntary departure (you get to keep your assets - non seizure or forfeiture thereof) will work.

now that's a real solution there, most of them have savings (even 401k's!)...

[natty bumppo 297]

I'm all for amnesty, but my amnesty would go like this:

Illegals have 90 days amnesty to leave the country. Employers have 90 days to cut them loose. After that, it's a felony and a long prison sentence for noncompliance.

It's all about motivation, peeps.

the main problem i see wit that, is that I don't think there's enough transports to move 12 million (or 20 or whatever) in 90 days.. unless u wanna heard them like cattle in big trucks or something, and, no.. that'd be inhuman, again, even illegals have basic rights.. and trying to ship them all back through fedex or UPS is not an option..

it doesn't need to be a huge ... "all aboard" transport. A phased move out process with incentives for voluntary departure (you get to keep your assets - non seizure or forfeiture thereof) will work.

now that's a real solution there, most of them have savings (even 401k's!)...

illegal alien with valid SSN? maybe a valid ITIN? The incentive to keep the savings ... is to go straight, quit breaking the law, and leave. otherwise maybe it could be the fee for deportation to bring the person(s) into compliance with the law they know they are breaking

[Nessa 23]

Every time I see a thread like this I think ''how can people like that (in favor of illegal immigration) exist'' , well, maybe it's because they have employees that are illegal and having them deported would be bad for their business, maybe they have friends, family, they got attached to and it would ''suck'' to have them go, still that's no excuse for agreeing with them staying. I just can't understand a rational American not being against illegal immigration, specially someone who went through this painfull, expensive visa process to bring their SO here legally.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

With the current number of judges we have authorized to sign deportation orders, it would take roughly 72 years to deport everyone here illegally. Do the math (courtesy of a friend):

"Even the immigration hawks are only willing to shell out $ for fences, border patrol agents, and prisons, but not, say, to do anything about the fact that we have 230-odd immigration judges who are supposed to sign off on every deportation in America other than an "expedited removal" of someone caught at a border or port of entry. Let's see, 12 million divided by 230 = 52174 cases per judge. Let's say you deal with an average of 3 a day per judge (a little less than the current goal--but one that it is only possible to ever meet because of the number of people who no-show for their hearings & get ordered deported in absentia). Okay, so that leaves 17391 work days per judge, divided by approximately 240 work days per year per federal employee, equals....72 years per judge to deal with the backlog of cases if immigration services rounded up everyone tomorrow."

"Round 'em up, deport 'em, ban 'em" is about as realistic as "let's solve the national debt by praying for the magical My Litlte Ponies of wealth."

Thank you...I was starting to question my sanity.

I still am. Questioning your sanity, that is.

Mom always said you were the emotional one.

Yes, because your argument is so rational. Oh the humanity...

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

hey if y'all gonna just give sh!t to steven instead of discuss, why not close the topic, he's trying to discuss something and everybody's just calling him an enabler, crazy, 'shame on you' (that was fukcin hilarious!!), and ####### like that, so if noone's discussing and only want to throw the ad-hominem's.. close this mofo'

He's not discussing anything. Hasn't responded to any one question thrown his way but rather repeated the same old tired line. That ain't debating it's hoping to make a point valid by simply repeating it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

hey if y'all gonna just give sh!t to steven instead of discuss, why not close the topic, he's trying to discuss something and everybody's just calling him an enabler, crazy, 'shame on you' (that was fukcin hilarious!!), and ####### like that, so if noone's discussing and only want to throw the ad-hominem's.. close this mofo'

He's not discussing anything. Hasn't responded to any one question thrown his way but rather repeated the same old tired line. That ain't debating it's hoping to make a point valid by simply repeating it.

That's really unfair. I think my posts speak for themselves. Reinhard, there's a lot of subjects that we've agreed or disagreed on in the past but I believe we share a mutual respect for one another. I think most of us here who regularly post in OT feel a certain comraderie that in spite of the different points of view, we all are friendly with one another. I hope that we don't lose that here or these discussions will no longer be enjoyable.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Every time I see a thread like this I think ''how can people like that (in favor of illegal immigration) exist'' , well, maybe it's because they have employees that are illegal and having them deported would be bad for their business, maybe they have friends, family, they got attached to and it would ''suck'' to have them go, still that's no excuse for agreeing with them staying. I just can't understand a rational American not being against illegal immigration, specially someone who went through this painfull, expensive visa process to bring their SO here legally.

well said. especially on a legal immigration board

[pedroh 21]

Every time I see a thread like this I think ''how can people like that (in favor of illegal immigration) exist'' , well, maybe it's because they have employees that are illegal and having them deported would be bad for their business, maybe they have friends, family, they got attached to and it would ''suck'' to have them go, still that's no excuse for agreeing with them staying. I just can't understand a rational American not being against illegal immigration, specially someone who went through this painfull, expensive visa process to bring their SO here legally.

i think some americans are not as paranoic as others, who think illegal immigrants will suddenly turn the US into a mad-max scene or something... I've been throught the visa process (and I'm not done yet), but, there's not a direct relationship on how fast i got my green card with the illegals.. if they were skipping the line, hell yeah i'd be pissed.. but, it's apples and oranges... the idea of 'If I've been through all this sh!t, then others have too', i just don't take it like that..

besides, that is a wrong accussation, of thinking that people who aren't against illegal immigration or the bills or amnesties, is involved in it, therefore a criminal.. it's just another bush-like 'if u don think like us, ur against us"

Edited June 9, 2007 by pedroh