Amnesty? What amnesty? Critics substitute fear for facts

[LaL 418]

for clarification, no, I dont see how sending an illegal who was dumped here as a child should be deported. unpopular view to have, but its all i got

and for the record i disagree with the anchor baby syndrome too.

Anchor babies are kinda off topic since we are talking about illegal imigrants, and as it stands now, anchors are legal Although that system is probably just as abused marriage fraud. The system is busted up, fix the system dont hate the people. Blame the employers & the demand.

I just think there are way too many exceptions to the black & white that is discussed here.

ETA : we could do without the personal attacks in this thread! let's remain civil.

Edited June 9, 2007 by lal_brandow

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

here's some food for thought for those who think illegals should stay:

- how much of the gnp is driven by consumer spending?

- how much money is sent out of the usa by illegals to their home country?

- is it false to assume that were illegals not siphoning money out of the usa, that consumer spending would rise?

- how much does each illegal cost the usa taxpayer?

- is there no correlation between illegal labor and decreased wages?

- is it false to assume that the correlation between cheap labor = depressed wages for the rest of the usa?

an example of the last one:

10 million jobs done cheaper by illegals. that displaces 10 million potential americans/legal immigrants that would do that job. that 10 million potential americans/legal immigrants is added into the pool of potential workers, making life very good for business. they have a simple case of excessive supply of workers and few jobs. hence wages are lower due to this.

and don't try to feed me that tired old line of the illegals are doing jobs americans won't do.

for clarification, no, I dont see how sending an illegal who was dumped here as a child should be deported. unpopular view to have, but its all i got

and for the record i disagree with the anchor baby syndrome too.

Anchor babies are kinda off topic since we are talking about illegal imigrants, and as it stands now, anchors are legal Although that system is probably just as abused marriage fraud. The system is busted up, fix the system dont hate the people. Blame the employers & the demand.

I just think there are way too many exceptions to the black & white that is discussed here.

ETA : we could do without the personal attacks in this thread! let's remain civil.

the usa is one of the most liberal countries in regards to citizenship. i'd like to see this loophole closed.

and i was not aware i was making personal attacks.

[homesick_american 1]

for clarification, no, I dont see how sending an illegal who was dumped here as a child should be deported. unpopular view to have, but its all i got

and for the record i disagree with the anchor baby syndrome too.

Anchor babies are kinda off topic since we are talking about illegal imigrants, and as it stands now, anchors are legal Although that system is probably just as abused marriage fraud. The system is busted up, fix the system dont hate the people. Blame the employers & the demand.

I just think there are way too many exceptions to the black & white that is discussed here.

ETA : we could do without the personal attacks in this thread! let's remain civil.

Takes two to be civil; the person in question has baldly attacked me in other threads without consequence.

Back on topic: I'm against anchor babies. I do not think that you should automatically be a US citizen just because you were born here, but that's another argument for another thread.

the usa is one of the most liberal countries in regards to citizenship. i'd like to see this loophole closed.

and i was not aware i was making personal attacks.

You weren't. Me and Steven_and_Jinky traded a few.

[LaL 418]

and i was not aware i was making personal attacks.

no, you weren't. some were getting personal and it was just a reminder. sorry if I confused ya by adding it to my reply to you.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Legal immigration is such a b!tch, I cannot believe anyone here supports amnesty for illegal aliens. Shame on you Steven.

There is disagreement over whether giving them temporary work visas is granting them amnesty - that's at the heart of the argument here.

As for deportation:

- Aside from the costs, how do you round up 11 plus million people and deport them? What airplanes? Whose airplanes? Are you thinking this would be some military operation? Could our current military handle such an operation? Where are you going to put them? What about children? Do you separate them from the parents?

I can't believe that reasonably intelligent Americans can't see past the screen of emotions to recognize just what deportation would mean.

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

Legal immigration is such a b!tch, I cannot believe anyone here supports amnesty for illegal aliens. Shame on you Steven.

There is disagreement over whether giving them temporary work visas is granting them amnesty - that's at the heart of the argument here.

As for deportation:

- Aside from the costs, how do you round up 11 plus million people and deport them? What airplanes? Whose airplanes? Are you thinking this would be some military operation? Could our current military handle such an operation? Where are you going to put them? What about children? Do you separate them from the parents?

I can't believe that reasonably intelligent Americans can't see past the screen of emotions to recognize just what deportation would mean.

did they get here on an airplane? and why does the most expensive travel method come to mind for you? ever heard of buses? trains? and then we have diesel. diesel feet will take you just about anywhere

[GaryC 7]

Better enforcement of hiring practices isn't going to make 11 plus million (sorry Charles...the number after 10 million is irrelevant for this point) just go away. We'd have a HUGE humanity crisis. Think about this - we're talking about millions of families with children that were born here. Solutions that curtail illegal immigration is only part of the solution - so far I haven't seen any rational solution on what to do with those that are already here.

No we wouldn't have a humanitarian crisis. You seem to be more worried about some illegal alien than your own people. If deporting or drying up the jobs of the illegals causes them a problem the boo-hoo. Cry me a river. They are not suppost to be here anyway and they MUST go at any cost! We ARE having a huge crisis right now with millions of undocumented aliens in our country. The solution is simple: enforce our laws, deport anyone we catch and close our borders to illegals.

[William33 110]

Legal immigration is such a b!tch, I cannot believe anyone here supports amnesty for illegal aliens. Shame on you Steven.

There is disagreement over whether giving them temporary work visas is granting them amnesty - that's at the heart of the argument here.

As for deportation:

- Aside from the costs, how do you round up 11 plus million people and deport them? What airplanes? Whose airplanes? Are you thinking this would be some military operation? Could our current military handle such an operation? Where are you going to put them? What about children? Do you separate them from the parents?

I can't believe that reasonably intelligent Americans can't see past the screen of emotions to recognize just what deportation would mean.

Steven,

I hear you man. Consider this:

Illegal aliens need to be deported by any means necessary, to achieve balance and control in US immigration policy.

Military air, commercial air, busses, trains and foot traffic are acceptable. If an individual is identified as illegal, out.

Any form of relief will do nothing more than invite many more to come on over. Think about it.

Someone contemplating illegal entry would say: Hmmmm, others got citizenship or legal residence, therefore I can too. USA, here I come…..

In the case of children born in the USA, from purely illegal individuals, they would be shown the way out. Mixed USC/ Illegal couples? A mechanism can be established for the illegal parent to be legally petitioned for residency, culminating in legal citizenship.

Edited June 9, 2007 by William33

[natty bumppo 297]

Back on topic: I'm against anchor babies. I do not think that you should automatically be a US citizen just because you were born here, but that's another argument for another thread.

totally agree

what a cheep ... slimy way to befuddle the issue ... anchor babies

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What does "no significant criminal record" even mean when it's just going to be overlooked that many of the illegals have and are committing ID theft, for example? Any American that has comitted the same crime will be held to account for that. And the punishment will be far above that 9K mark, we're discussing here. So, what does "no significant criminal record" really mean under those circumstances? It means nothing. Well, nothing other than the illegals being afforded an amnesty.

We're not even looking to deport those that have already been ordered deported and have since evaded that deportation order. Any American fugitive will be arrested as soon as law enforcement gets a hold of him. But not those fugitives. hey will instead be rewarded with papers and the opportunity to remain here. How that is not an amnesty is way beyond me.

Solutions? Anyone here got a reasonable solution? I'm all ears.

So, you're in agreement that what's proposed is an amnesty?

I agree with the notion that anything short of letting them stay here is not rational.

Do you think it's rational to be seriously talking about deporting 11 million people?

1) You didn't answer the question.

2) I never suggested we deport 11 million illegals. I say seriously enforce employment laws and watch them leave.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Legal immigration is such a b!tch, I cannot believe anyone here supports amnesty for illegal aliens. Shame on you Steven.

There is disagreement over whether giving them temporary work visas is granting them amnesty - that's at the heart of the argument here.

As for deportation:

- Aside from the costs, how do you round up 11 plus million people and deport them? What airplanes? Whose airplanes? Are you thinking this would be some military operation? Could our current military handle such an operation? Where are you going to put them? What about children? Do you separate them from the parents?

I can't believe that reasonably intelligent Americans can't see past the screen of emotions to recognize just what deportation would mean.

did they get here on an airplane? and why does the most expensive travel method come to mind for you? ever heard of buses? trains? and then we have diesel. diesel feet will take you just about anywhere

Ok, for the sake of the argument, let's say you have the method of transporting that many people worked out. Now, tell me how you you're going to round them up? Will you pull children from schools? See the reality is that deportation is a 'feel good' idea that isn't rooted in rationale. But if you can find some military experts or someone equivalent who can articulate in detail how to deport that many people, including rounding them up, I'd like to hear it. Because short of that, it's like saying we need to build a colony on Mars.

[natty bumppo 297]

As for deportation:

- Aside from the costs, how do you round up 11 plus million people and deport them? What airplanes? Whose airplanes? Are you thinking this would be some military operation? Could our current military handle such an operation? Where are you going to put them? What about children? Do you separate them from the parents?

the same way they got here.

maybe we should not be as cruel as the people who transported them here. we can offer them a true amnesty.

We will forgive their invasion and crimes against the USA if they choose one of two options:

Option 1:

we will furnish safe and comfortable accommodations to their country of origin via bus, train, ship, plane, etc. In the process the gov't will seize all assets accumulated or present in the US due to illegal presence and labor performed in this country.

Option 2:

If the illegal alien doesn't like the other option then they can return to their home country before option 1 happens.

Children ... they return with their parents. We will not separate families.

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

Legal immigration is such a b!tch, I cannot believe anyone here supports amnesty for illegal aliens. Shame on you Steven.

There is disagreement over whether giving them temporary work visas is granting them amnesty - that's at the heart of the argument here.

As for deportation:

- Aside from the costs, how do you round up 11 plus million people and deport them? What airplanes? Whose airplanes? Are you thinking this would be some military operation? Could our current military handle such an operation? Where are you going to put them? What about children? Do you separate them from the parents?

I can't believe that reasonably intelligent Americans can't see past the screen of emotions to recognize just what deportation would mean.

did they get here on an airplane? and why does the most expensive travel method come to mind for you? ever heard of buses? trains? and then we have diesel. diesel feet will take you just about anywhere

Ok, for the sake of the argument, let's say you have the method of transporting that many people worked out. Now, tell me how you you're going to round them up? Will you pull children from schools? See the reality is that deportation is a 'feel good' idea that isn't rooted in rationale. But if you can find some military experts or someone equivalent who can articulate in detail how to deport that many people, including rounding them up, I'd like to hear it. Because short of that, it's like saying we need to build a colony on Mars.

you're amazing, steven. for every solution you find another problem.

it's about attrition, steven. they can voluntarily turn themselves in for a free ride to mexico. or they can walk home after the money has dried up. then we can bill mexico for the trip

[William33 110]

Illegal aliens need to be deported by any means necessary, to achieve balance and control in US immigration policy.

Military air, commercial air, busses, trains and foot traffic are acceptable. If an individual is identified as illegal, out.

Any form of relief will do nothing more than invite many more to come on over. Think about it.

Someone contemplating illegal entry would say: Hmmmm, others got citizenship or legal residence, therefore I can too. USA, here I come…..

In the case of children born in the USA, from purely illegal individuals, they would be shown the way out. Mixed USC/ Illegal couples? A mechanism can be established for the illegal parent to be legally petitioned for residency, culminating in legal citizenship.

Consider this, again.

Edited June 9, 2007 by William33

[Mirorgate 0]

Legal immigration is such a b!tch, I cannot believe anyone here supports amnesty for illegal aliens. Shame on you Steven.

There is disagreement over whether giving them temporary work visas is granting them amnesty - that's at the heart of the argument here.

How many will take the option of the work visa, to go back to country of origin to wait in line to apply, knowing FULL WELL that others are streaming across the porous borders that we have.

Honestly Stephen, your argueing now just to argue. You do not have a plan either, even though you ask others here to post one. Thing is, no matter what is posted, you reject it out of hand because you dont agree with it as being a solution.