Bureaucratic Rule: By What Right?

[TBoneTX 45,570]

Interesting, timely piece by a thoughtful author.  Comments?

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Bureaucratic Rule: By What Right?

Angelo Codevilla - October 26th, 2019

 

Americans are just beginning to realize that opposition to Donald Trump is the least explanation for what bureaucrats, corporate officials and media magnates have been doing to negate the outcome of the 2016 election.  Denying that government by the people is the only legitimate form of rule, they are asserting that legitimate rule flows from right-minded persons in the country’s institutions, elections notwithstanding.  The following shows that this assertion flows merely from our ruling class’s will to power. [...]

 

Continues here: https://amgreatness.com/2019/10/26/bureaucratic-rule-by-what-right/  

 

[TBoneTX 45,570]

The comments continue to pour in on this topic.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

3 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

The comments continue to pour in on this topic.

Sorry all I am seeing is a bunch of word salad. They can't handle that they have no policy to run on other than "Orange man Bad"

[Dashinka 24,628]

The ruling class or ruling elite have long been a problem here and in other countries.  We have so called top schools particularly in the Ivy League churning out progressive bureaucrats in record numbers to rule us all from DC.  Heck, didn't the USDA recently announce a move out of DC to Missouri and that started a mini-revolt.  How dare they move the ruling elite to flyover country.

[luckytxn 2,264]

There is a lot of power within a bureaucracy and I can imagine how hard giving up that much power would be so of course they are going to revolt and do everything within the system to stop any intruders. When you have a 2 party system and they are essentially the same the rot is huge and overpowering.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,376]

I usually wait for the 4 liner comments,  to gain a savants understanding before offering keen insights, in a short concise manner. 

[90DayFinancier 910]

[90DayFinancier 910]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I usually wait for the 4 liner comments,  to gain a savants understanding before offering keen insights, in a short concise manner. 

I like how you roll.

[laylalex 7,293]

17 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

The ruling class or ruling elite have long been a problem here and in other countries.  We have so called top schools particularly in the Ivy League churning out progressive bureaucrats in record numbers to rule us all from DC.  Heck, didn't the USDA recently announce a move out of DC to Missouri and that started a mini-revolt.  How dare they move the ruling elite to flyover country.

I went to an Ivy. Not one of the big three that everyone thinks of when they think of Ivies, which are the ones that feed into the DC machine. People tend to hire people they feel comfortable with, and people who are like themselves. So, if you have a machine of people who went to schools X, Y and Z, they tend to keep hiring from schools X, Y and Z. They're known quantities, supposedly. It's self-perpetuating. 

 

And that move from DC to Missouri was likely not done for any reason but to cause attrition in the USDA. Really. There wasn't a need to move the HQ, and there were employees who would suffer real hardships in their families if they had to move. Not just monetary ones, but things like losing continuity of healthcare for serious medical conditions, and uprooting deep ties to the community. It's not about "elites" and "flyover country." It's about respecting your employees. Have some compassion.

[TBoneTX 45,570]

Job Transfer, n. - a promotion that you receive on the condition that you leave town.

[Dashinka 24,628]

5 hours ago, laylalex said:

I went to an Ivy. Not one of the big three that everyone thinks of when they think of Ivies, which are the ones that feed into the DC machine. People tend to hire people they feel comfortable with, and people who are like themselves. So, if you have a machine of people who went to schools X, Y and Z, they tend to keep hiring from schools X, Y and Z. They're known quantities, supposedly. It's self-perpetuating. 

 

And that move from DC to Missouri was likely not done for any reason but to cause attrition in the USDA. Really. There wasn't a need to move the HQ, and there were employees who would suffer real hardships in their families if they had to move. Not just monetary ones, but things like losing continuity of healthcare for serious medical conditions, and uprooting deep ties to the community. It's not about "elites" and "flyover country." It's about respecting your employees. Have some compassion.

Shouldn't it be about respecting the people you supposedly serve?  Where is the heart of this countries agriculture industry?  I will help you, I just recently drove through Eastern CO, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, and Missouri, and they are major agriculture states.  Anyway, people and families face these kinds of decisions all the time.  Heck, we are on an immigration site where folks have made the decision to move from one country to the other.  There are plenty of good opportunities in MO, and in fact the COL is most likely a lot more attractive there than in the DC area, but of course in DC you are in the circles of power which is where bureaucrats want to be.

 

As to the Ivy's, they are not any better school than any other.  The reputation of a school is simply just an opinion of those that went to the school in question. 

[Dashinka 24,628]

6 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Funny how the Dems ignore the evidence of the wrongdoing of their own leaders.  As to the evidence of Trump's wrongdoing, we have been waiting for Adam Schiff for more than two years to tell us.  He says he has it which means he should be called as a witness himself.  Maybe the Senate can call him to testify.

 

[laylalex 7,293]

7 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Shouldn't it be about respecting the people you supposedly serve?  Where is the heart of this countries agriculture industry?  I will help you, I just recently drove through Eastern CO, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, and Missouri, and they are major agriculture states.  Anyway, people and families face these kinds of decisions all the time.  Heck, we are on an immigration site where folks have made the decision to move from one country to the other.  There are plenty of good opportunities in MO, and in fact the COL is most likely a lot more attractive there than in the DC area, but of course in DC you are in the circles of power which is where bureaucrats want to be.

 

As to the Ivy's, they are not any better school than any other.  The reputation of a school is simply just an opinion of those that went to the school in question. 

Please read this: https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/451238-this-is-not-the-way-to-move-usda-agencies-out-of-washington The author is an agricultural economist at Michigan State. He knows what he's talking about, and it's in The Hill, not exactly the most left-leaning source. There are ways of doing this move without sacrificing highly-trained staff. The USDA is shooting itself in the foot. Why? If it's so important to get closer to the agriculture industry (which by the way California is the top producer of in this country but no one is talking about moving the USDA out to the Central Valley), why are they doing it in such a disruptive way? And Mick Mulvaney said that by moving the USDA out there, they got half the workforce to quit -- “What a wonderful way to streamline government, and do what we haven’t been able to do for a long time." It was moving the jobs to the "real part of the country." (source here: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/in-40-seconds-mulvaney-revealed-truth-about-moving-govt-scientists-to-real-america) 

 

This isn't about getting the USDA closer to the seat of agriculture. If it was, the USDA would be moving to Stockton or Merced. That isn't happening. The cost of living in those two cities is a lot lower than in DC. This is about being disruptive for the sake of it. Not only that, the USDA inspector general found this year that while the move was allowed, it didn't get Congressional approval or comply with a reporting deadline:

 

Quote

 

Our inspection objectives were to determine USDA’s legal and budgetary authority to execute (1) the realignment of ERS under OCE; and (2) the relocation of ERS and NIFA offices. We also were to determine USDA’s adherence to any established procedures relating to agency realignment and relocation and procedures associated with cost benefit analyses (including factors such as staff recruitment and retention, access to agency services, and cost efficiencies).

...

The Reorganization Plan No. 2 of 1953 provides the Department with the legal authority to realign ERS under OCE and relocate ERS and NIFA offices. However, while the General Provisions of the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2018 (Omnibus Act) provides certain budgetary authorities to the Department, there are established limitations on such authorities to realign or relocate offices. Further, the Department has not obtained Congressional approval, as required by Section 717(a) of the Omnibus Act, and has not complied with the reporting deadline requirement in Section 753 of the Omnibus Act.

 

https://www.usda.gov/oig/webdocs/91801-0001-23.pdf

 

Also, I wasn't arguing that the Ivies are better or worse than any other school. I was simply saying that people tend to hire people who are like them. When the halls of DC are stacked with HYP people, they hire other HYP people because they're supposedly known quantities. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[Dashinka 24,628]

4 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Please read this: https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/451238-this-is-not-the-way-to-move-usda-agencies-out-of-washington The author is an agricultural economist at Michigan State. He knows what he's talking about, and it's in The Hill, not exactly the most left-leaning source. There are ways of doing this move without sacrificing highly-trained staff. The USDA is shooting itself in the foot. Why? If it's so important to get closer to the agriculture industry (which by the way California is the top producer of in this country but no one is talking about moving the USDA out to the Central Valley), why are they doing it in such a disruptive way? And Mick Mulvaney said that by moving the USDA out there, they got half the workforce to quit -- “What a wonderful way to streamline government, and do what we haven’t been able to do for a long time." It was moving the jobs to the "real part of the country." (source here: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/in-40-seconds-mulvaney-revealed-truth-about-moving-govt-scientists-to-real-america) 

 

This isn't about getting the USDA closer to the seat of agriculture. If it was, the USDA would be moving to Stockton or Merced. That isn't happening. The cost of living in those two cities is a lot lower than in DC. This is about being disruptive for the sake of it. Not only that, the USDA inspector general found this year that while the move was allowed, it didn't get Congressional approval or comply with a reporting deadline:

 

https://www.usda.gov/oig/webdocs/91801-0001-23.pdf

 

Also, I wasn't arguing that the Ivies are better or worse than any other school. I was simply saying that people tend to hire people who are like them. When the halls of DC are stacked with HYP people, they hire other HYP people because they're supposedly known quantities. Please don't put words in my mouth.

CA produces more food than Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Illinois, Missouri and Colorado combined?  I find that hard to believe.  Regardless, if these folks quit because they don't want to be away from the swamp, then that is their decision.  Companies make moves all the time that drive these decisions.  The main benefit in my opinion is getting the bureaucrats out of DC.  Btw, the MSU opinion writer seems to have an issue with dates, not sure where his head is at.  Sure there will be some brain drain, but that will level out eventually as there are folks with similar expertise that would be more than willing to join the group.  Lastly, I find the estimate of 80% of the staff leaving a bit of a stretch.  If the folks that aren't retiring think they will easily find similar jobs and still stay in the DC area they may be surprised.

[laylalex 7,293]

We're not talking about COMBINED. If we're talking about going where the greatest amount of the agriculture business is based, it's California. Why are you moving goalposts? Why are you even setting goalposts based on where you drove through the other month?

 

And did you see what the issues are with brain drain? There just aren't as many qualified people out there or willing to move out there to get numbers back up. And most importantly, why do this so fast? You don't even mention the IG findings -- the USDA made a complete mess of this. I am maybe a little emotional about it because I am in an alumni Facebook group that has several current USDA researchers in it. They aren't happy about what's happening, having to upend their lives like this with little warning and with little to no justification for why it has to be so fast. Why not phase it in over the course of years? Why does it have to be so fast at the risk of alienating people who have entered public service and given up more lucrative lines of work?