Personal Attacks?

[tnh9479 1]

vj has lost a lot more than two people since I've been here.

There is JP, VP, mybackpages, bosco, Rahma, ..........................those are the only permanent ones I can think of so far but I'm sure the list is longer.

Please do not be naive enough to believe that the people who left did so because of personal attacks occuring. There is a lot more to it than that. Sometimes, believe it or not, people do have a life. They have moved on to a different stage in their life and VJ does not hold that position it once did.

For me, the middle-school mentality of a lot on this board, and in MENA in particular, is a HUGE reason to back away. What is the point of talking to people who refuse to take out their earplugs and remove their rose-colored glasses? I don't believe in "blowing sunshine up someone's @ss" either.

[doodlebug 3]

vj has lost a lot more than two people since I've been here.

There is JP, VP, mybackpages, bosco, Rahma, ..........................those are the only permanent ones I can think of so far but I'm sure the list is longer.

Please do not be naive enough to believe that the people who left did so because of personal attacks occuring. There is a lot more to it than that. Sometimes, believe it or not, people do have a life. They have moved on to a different stage in their life and VJ does not hold that position it once did.

For me, the middle-school mentality of a lot on this board, and in MENA in particular, is a HUGE reason to back away. What is the point of talking to people who refuse to take out their earplugs and remove their rose-colored glasses? I don't believe in "blowing sunshine up someone's @ss" either.

Please read what I wrote. I did not say anywhere that they left due to personal attacks.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm sorry that Julianna left, I didn't read the thread that sent her packing. I'm only reading now that she has left. If anyone knows how to contact her, please pass it on to me, if she's ok with that. I like to stay in touch with her. If not, I only wish her and her hubby the very best.

I am among those who do not see Jean as a smuck. I am willing to try to be constructive in her situation and intend to continue to provide support, advice and concrete help for her and Moh. Maybe that makes me a smuck in some minds, too, but I can live with that.

I don't read much anymore and post even less. My membership continues as a mere formality, at this time.

Good thread, Tammy Sue!

Edited June 8, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Killer_Clown_2009 0]

There are always a few people who will get very vocal about their opinions and some of them became down right obnoxious. Then there is the crowd that feels the need to attack the attacker. If negative posts bother someone, they should simply ignore them (as many, many people do) and focus on the positive. Those who enjoy a conflict, can carry on.

[balmytigeress 0]

I normally stay out of trouble, and don't reply to people to seem to be trying to make trouble (even though it's not like that from their pov). I've been storing up a lot of thoughts. If they are incomplete and you think any of them are wrong, that's because I get too frustrated by people to finish the line of thought.

Some people flippantly say they don't care how what they say sounds to other people. I dnn't remember who, when, or where on these boards.

Would it hart someone to take a moment to consider their style of message delivery? If they constantly have someone telling them how harsh they are being, and they reply that they don't care...I'd say show some consideration, but they just said they don't care, so why would they try to show some consideration? I can't really generalize (although it does sound like I just did) because I've seen that some of them actually do show some consideration.

Having a opinion different from mine is. Fine. Belittling me for thinking something is not fine.

Some people don't have a lot of support from other people, so they go here thinking there will be someone who *gets* it. I have friends, yes, but none of them are dealing with immigrations, and they are still shy and havn't had much in the way of our kinds of relationships so hearing Rachid this, Rachid that, consulate this, consulate that....we just don't connect in this matter, they support, but their eyes seem to glaze over sometimes hehehe

Sometimes it does seem easier to tell strangers somewhat intimate things. Telling them something that is difficult for them to hear is ok....but if they bring it here they need a little support.

If you've had a bad experience and worked hard to get over it, sometimes one is left with an attitude which is useful for themselves, but not so much for the person who has never completed the experience personally. Go ahead and say, "if you go back into that situation, I am worried for you." You can advise and maybe the person won't take the advice, but you can't make someone do anything. Maybe you know better. Just....careful of seeming holier than thou or 'know it all.'

Sometimes I am surprised by how some people can post something and NOT see how it could possibly be offensive. Sometimes I wonder, "can't you see how quarrelsome that sounded!?" Thare are some people here who always seem to have good advice, but it is often written in such an aggressive manner, then they say "I'm just speaking the truth and you just don't want to hear it!" Because you have such informed things to say, that makes it alright to express it that way? It really does make that person look like they enjoy it. Perhaps they don't, but because they "don't care" it makes them LOOK like they in ARE in fact enjoying it.

Admit it or argue, VJ is like a family. There are arguments. People are driven out, made to feel unwelcome. This happens with families. Not all families run smoothly.

This next idea may sound idealistic and unrealistic to some people....in some way we are all related to each other. Some societies only relatiions within a certain degree are considered family, some societies have loooong extended families. For all practical purposes a "family" can only include so many degrees of relation. Ever looked at a family tree? Go back further and further. All of those people had children, who had children, who had children. They married people from other families, mixing bloodlines and adding more relatives. It's impossible to trace because not all records are kept, but somehow we are all related to each other, everyone in the world. I can't give a birthday present to all those people! Which is why for many practical purposes we don't think about how we are related. And if we're all family, then we ALL need to TRY TO GET ALONG!

Then there are those times when someone seems to be saying something in complete innocence, and another person jumps on them for having ulterior motives, or meaning something deeper. And they we have trouble seeing what exactly was offensive.

And then there are the people who pick on language. "Don't you know English!!!!" We're not all english teachers, and we're not all from the US, and people do have varying degrees of proficiency with written/spoken english.

All that being said, in a creative writing class we were studying poetry. In discussion it came up how people can interpret a poem very differently. The author may be writing about the beauty of a flower, but the reader might look at the author's background and come up with a complicated interpretation and a specific politial world view, all very complicated. And when the author wrote it, all they were thinking of was the beauty of a flower. but once something is published, people read into it whatever they want and the author has no ability to change the readers mind. Maybe say, "this poem has nothing to do with my political views! I was just writing about the beauty of flowers!!!"

Public bulletin boards are similar. But not the same. A poem is 1-way communication. These boards are group communication. We don't have to look so deeply at each other's posts and make assumptions about each other, like the reader of the hypothetical flower poem. In reviewing that author's book of poetry, you can be really rough. It is a review and you are supposed to say what you think. On the other hand, MENA is not for reviewing someone's book of their life.

Try to treat each other like family members that you don't know too well. It is hard to get the whole picture over the internet by reading a few posts.

Blahhhhh! I have so much in my head about this it's all trying to get out at once and that won't work. This is why I usually stay out of it. Then it seemed that this thread is quite appropriate for venting it out and it won't be interfering with a totally unrelated subject.

Here is a support site. http://www.enotalone.com they take excerpts from books trying to get you to buy them, but look for the bulletin board section (not the part trying to tempt you into buying a book). It is for sharing things when you feel alone like there is no one who understands. My suggestion is that for sensitive personal information you can go there are keep it separate from VJ. Change the names and places and make it so no one can recognize you. Keep VJ a pleasant, helpful place for yourself instead of a making it a bad place. Not that anyone here LIKES the immigration process, but to make this place more positive, consider an alternative venue. There are some friendly discussion groups on yahoo. Some of them are well run and moderated, and personal attacks very strongly discouraged. They allow being truthful, but only if you show compassion too (compassion is not the same as 'blowing sunshine up someone's....").

BT

Edited June 8, 2007 by balmytigeress

[balmytigeress 0]

Wow I talked alot!

But am I saying anything?

BT

[brnidokiegurl 0]

And then there are the people who pick on language. "Don't you know English!!!!" We're not all english teachers, and we're not all from the US, and people do have varying degrees of proficiency with written/spoken english.

This happens all the time, to belittle someone, of course everyone is not the same that is what the draw is to come here different people from all over with the visa as the connection

you did good

[~*Dorothy*~ 2]

Most of the time if stay out and don't post - I guess I feel I don't have much to say or add - who knows, however I feel that this is an important topic. Sure, one may say that it's pointless to even have this discussion but I feel that there could be some benefits to it.

What bother me the most about the personal attacks is the manner of how people choose to express their opinions. I agree that we are all entitled to have different views and opinions on most of the topics that come up here on the daily basis and that is fine - there is nothing wrong with that - we are all very different individuals from different walks of life and distinct life experiences. Sharing these differences is perfectly OK - what is wrong is when attacks get out of hand and all laws of decency are forgotten...

I am asking myself - what is being accomplish by the ill spirited attitude? Alienation and pain - that is all...Sure we can feel very strong about other people's decisions and we may feel compelled to provide them advice even they are not looking for it - that is fine too - but it all comes down on how are we conveying the message to the hurting party - are we being helpful or just plain rude because we believe in "tough love"...I feel that this approach is just wrong...Usually it creates nothing but unpleasant environment and is not helping anyone - just opens up a door for an open hatered...

I guess what I am trying to say is that I see the point that Tammy Sue is trying to make - we all need to learn compassion without compromising our moral believes or the reality of the situation...Life is difficult as it is why do we have to make it worse...

Wishing everyone a great weekend and best of luck to all that are set for interviews on Monday...

P.S. I have tried to express myself to the best of my abilities but English is my second language so please forgive me if my post is not making much sense.

BT - thanks for making some excellent points - great post...

Love,

Dorothy

Edited June 8, 2007 by Lost in NY

[sarah and hicham 3]

vj has lost a lot more than two people since I've been here.

There is JP, VP, mybackpages, bosco, Rahma, ..........................those are the only permanent ones I can think of so far but I'm sure the list is longer.

Please do not be naive enough to believe that the people who left did so because of personal attacks occuring. There is a lot more to it than that. Sometimes, believe it or not, people do have a life. They have moved on to a different stage in their life and VJ does not hold that position it once did.

For me, the middle-school mentality of a lot on this board, and in MENA in particular, is a HUGE reason to back away. What is the point of talking to people who refuse to take out their earplugs and remove their rose-colored glasses? I don't believe in "blowing sunshine up someone's @ss" either.

I agree completely. Unfortunately the rose colored glasses are here to stay and it's been proven many many times.

[anxious 0]

I usually steer away from any drama...I have enough of that between

school, family, and pregnancy LOL.

I remember when things on the MENA board were alot cooler and more

supportive. I know I will be more active on VJ if it were (and I had extra time )

[~Jackie~ 30]

MENA is still a cool place to be. It is just a select few that love the drama. Alot of us really enjoy each others company on and off the forums.

Jackie

[Ban Hammer 13,484]

MENA is still a cool place to be. It is just a select few that love the drama. Alot of us really enjoy each others company on and off the forums.

Jackie

and when is the next mena party in chat?

[doodlebug 3]

MENA is still a cool place to be. It is just a select few that love the drama. Alot of us really enjoy each others company on and off the forums.

Jackie

and when is the next mena party in chat?

abdoujen's fiance has his interview monday but i can never figure out if that means the party is sunday night or monday night 'cause i'm timezone-challenged.

[~Jackie~ 30]

That would be Sunday night. In July, we have a double Jordan slumber party!!!!!!!! Can ya belive it? A double-header!

Jackie

[Ban Hammer 13,484]

That would be Sunday night. In July, we have a double Jordan slumber party!!!!!!!! Can ya belive it? A double-header!

Jackie

and i have to work sun night. bleh. i'll try to make the july one, save the paper bag for me