Women At Ernst & Young Instructed On How To Dress, Act Nicely Around Men

[yuna628 9,674]

25 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Sorry NB, I blame the wine we were drinking last night! I rambled on a bit there and I think I was probably replying to someone else and the universe more generally... 

 

Of course you can change your gender pronouns if you like. 

 

And I am not digging through your post history (how rude!  ) but I know you have said you are of the manly man persuasion. Glad to know you are at least honest about your lying. 

 

Yes, it is (as yuna points out) very much a contextual thing. My mom calls me sweetie, and so does the woman who works at the pharmacy I go to. And if I were in the South, yeah, I wouldn't take offense to it, even from a man in this type of context. It's a cultural thing. But a woman knows the difference between one of these contextual "sweetie"s and a man who in a meeting says, "well, sweetie, that's certainly an interesting idea..." 

 

Also as women in this society we are socialized to be nice to men. Sorry, it's true. We have to be nice and flatter their egos because that's what good girls do. And sometimes with strange men, men you don't know, who say something like "why don't you give us a smile, love" (as I got the other week when I was on holiday in England, just walking to the shop to get some milk), you don't know how they're going to react if you tell them no, I'd rather not. You might get called a "b", or the c word, or you might get a guy who follows you into the shop and keeps bothering you. If you think these things are uncommon, I'm sorry, they're not. So you smile and maybe laugh a little to make the moment end. I don't want to perform happiness for anyone. Sometimes I'm just tired and want to get some milk so my stepdaughter-to-be can have some muesli.

Baltimore also has it's unique quirks of calling people ''hon''. But honestly, if someone I don't know starts calling me sweetie? I find it really arrogant, patronizing, forward, and downright rude. That would be the same of women as it is of men. Who do you think you are? What gives you the right to be so familiar?

 

I don't know that we in society are socialized or somehow programmed to be specifically nice to men. If you are a nice person, you generally try to be nice to everyone regardless of their gender. It's the decent thing to do. But there is such a thing as boundaries, and it is wise for people not to cross them in their attempts to be 'cute' or 'charming'. If someone tells me to smile, I'm going to tell them what I think of that little comment, and I don't really care what name I'm called in response to their silliness.

[laylalex 7,284]

Just now, yuna628 said:

Baltimore also has it's unique quirks of calling people ''hon''. But honestly, if someone I don't know starts calling me sweetie? I find it really arrogant, patronizing, forward, and downright rude. That would be the same of women as it is of men. Who do you think you are? What gives you the right to be so familiar?

 

I don't know that we in society are socialized or somehow programmed to be specifically nice to men. If you are a nice person, you generally try to be nice to everyone regardless of their gender. It's the decent thing to do. But there is such a thing as boundaries, and it is wise for people not to cross them in their attempts to be 'cute' or 'charming'. If someone tells me to smile, I'm going to tell them what I think of that little comment, and I don't really care what name I'm called in response to their silliness.

I take your point, but I'll ask you this: how often is it a random woman you do not know who asks you to smile for them when you're just out there being a human in public? In my own experience, I can't think of too many. But I can think of multiple men every month who do. I'm nice to everyone, maybe too nice sometimes. I take genuine compliments graciously. But when a random man calls me a "B" because I won't be charming in the way he demands, my hackles go up. I have been followed down the street for not being sufficiently "nice" or giving a guy the brush off. I'm a small woman (not quite 5'2"). I get concerned. 

 

I'm looking for some of the articles I've read about women's socialization to be "nice" to men to avoid greater harm and I'll post at lunchtime. We may end up closing early because the area where PG&E may shut off power preemptively is starting to get close to where I work. Just hoping my home is still in the okay area. The Kincade Fire is far away but still terrifying to read about on the news. The air quality is not great at the moment.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

Just now, laylalex said:

I take your point, but I'll ask you this: how often is it a random woman you do not know who asks you to smile for them when you're just out there being a human in public? In my own experience, I can't think of too many. But I can think of multiple men every month who do. I'm nice to everyone, maybe too nice sometimes. I take genuine compliments graciously. But when a random man calls me a "B" because I won't be charming in the way he demands, my hackles go up. I have been followed down the street for not being sufficiently "nice" or giving a guy the brush off. I'm a small woman (not quite 5'2"). I get concerned. 

 

I'm looking for some of the articles I've read about women's socialization to be "nice" to men to avoid greater harm and I'll post at lunchtime. We may end up closing early because the area where PG&E may shut off power preemptively is starting to get close to where I work. Just hoping my home is still in the okay area. The Kincade Fire is far away but still terrifying to read about on the news. The air quality is not great at the moment.

You have random men calling you the B word?

 

P.S. short women rock

[yuna628 9,674]

2 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I take your point, but I'll ask you this: how often is it a random woman you do not know who asks you to smile for them when you're just out there being a human in public? In my own experience, I can't think of too many. But I can think of multiple men every month who do. I'm nice to everyone, maybe too nice sometimes. I take genuine compliments graciously. But when a random man calls me a "B" because I won't be charming in the way he demands, my hackles go up. I have been followed down the street for not being sufficiently "nice" or giving a guy the brush off. I'm a small woman (not quite 5'2"). I get concerned. 

 

I'm looking for some of the articles I've read about women's socialization to be "nice" to men to avoid greater harm and I'll post at lunchtime. We may end up closing early because the area where PG&E may shut off power preemptively is starting to get close to where I work. Just hoping my home is still in the okay area. The Kincade Fire is far away but still terrifying to read about on the news. The air quality is not great at the moment.

The smile thing from a woman? Never. Most women know how offensive that is. I guess I've just reached the point where I'm done with a random dude giving me hassle, because I've been through it enough. I am barely 5'2'', but that's not an obstacle in preventing me from ''not complying'' to such a demand. I'm not going to be pretend nice to avoid thuggish behavior. Protect yourself in whatever legal method you can and learn how to defend if necessary.

 

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

You have random men calling you the B word?

 

P.S. short women rock

It happens NB. B and C words and all sorts. Sometimes I think it's a drunk or just a crazy person, but you never know what the person is going to do, if they're willing to be so aggressive in public. Again, I do not recall such creepy behavior as much in Baltimore, but they sure do it around these parts. It's always scuzzy, random, middle-aged. Fragile egos? High? Who knows. We've had some crazy cases of psycho guys intentionally running women off the road and beating them just because they were driving the speed limit.

[laylalex 7,284]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

You have random men calling you the B word?

 

P.S. short women rock

Yes, I absolutely do have random men calling me the B word, even here in totally woke Berkeley, by men who don't look like they'd be capable of saying those things. I have a "call me a B or a C" sign on me, I guess. Or because I don't always want to have a conversation with someone on the street. A man who says to me, "beautiful day, isn't it?" is likely to get a reply from me -- it's a good-natured question, and I try to be friendly and polite. But a guy who says, "hey, where you headed?" and I say "out" or "work" or "none of your business" and he then follows up with, "I was just being nice, you don't have to be a B about it" -- yeah, that happens. My mom told me that one of the few blessings of getting older is that these things happen to you less frequently. I probably have another decade or so of this until middle age. 

 

And yes, short women do rock. Alex is just over a foot taller than me, which looks obscene sometimes.  He says sexual dimorphism in our species is occasionally very pronounced as it is for us, and then I tell him not to use such big fancy words when I just keep him around for one reason. (To get things off of high shelves, get your brain out of the gutter. )

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 hours ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Be glad you do not come down South because the Sweetie part and the strangers trying to open a door is still very much prevalent down here by both men and women. I have been called sweetie before as well, actually just last week at the Wafflehouse. 

 

The smile part I am not going to lie was my best pick up line back in day when I was single. I would say something like "You need to smile because you are to pretty/beautiful not to smile", and 90% of the time it worked with the girl whole heartedly smiling. 

Sweetheart.  Darling.  Hon.  Honey.  Babe.  Those are all names I have been called by complete strangers.  Only served to make me feel welcome.

 

Now when a woman says to me, "Well bless your heart"... my feathers get in all sorts of a kerfluffle!!

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Had to share some of the comments in this thread with my wife, and ask her if she ever experienced this.  She said no strange man has ever called her a bad name.  Now, she is usually smiling,  so not likely a stranger would ever tell her to smile.

 

Maybe y'all just need to smile more?  🤪

[laylalex 7,284]

😠 (not how I usually look)

 

I saw what you did there.

Edited October 25, 2019 by laylalex

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 minutes ago, laylalex said:

😠 (not how I usually look)

There's an acronym for that, I think? R..something...something??

 

Really bold features?

Edited October 25, 2019 by ALFKAD

[laylalex 7,284]

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

There's an acronym for that, I think? R..something...something??

 

Really bold features?

No, I don't have RBF.   When I have BF, it's very much on purpose and not when I am simply resting.  

 

Since I don't want this topic to drift off its Very Important Premise, all I want to say is to loop back to the article and say it's ridiculous for women to be expected to act in one way in the office and men another. Why don't we all act like adult human beings. with respect for each other, no matter our sex/gender/orientation?

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

3 minutes ago, laylalex said:

No, I don't have RBF.   When I have BF, it's very much on purpose and not when I am simply resting.  

 

Since I don't want this topic to drift off its Very Important Premise, all I want to say is to loop back to the article and say it's ridiculous for women to be expected to act in one way in the office and men another. Why don't we all act like adult human beings. with respect for each other, no matter our sex/gender/orientation

I have a woman like that where I work.... She is actually really nice but she just has that face and persona. It took a good year for her to open up to me due to working in different rooms.

 

It was funny one time at work right after I started there my boss sent out a survey to everyone to describe everyone in the branch, and one guy accidentally sent it out to everyone in the branch. He described her as having a "Resting Cyber Face" since we work in IT. We all laughed and he didn't get in trouble at all

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

6 minutes ago, laylalex said:

No, I don't have RBF.   When I have BF, it's very much on purpose and not when I am simply resting.  

 

Since I don't want this topic to drift off its Very Important Premise, all I want to say is to loop back to the article and say it's ridiculous for women to be expected to act in one way in the office and men another. Why don't we all act like adult human beings. with respect for each other, no matter our sex/gender/orientation?

I'm just proud to see SOMEONE trying to keep the traditions alive upon which this country was founded, as EY is obviously attempting to do.

 

Now be a sweetheart and go make me a sammich please.  You can let Alex eat it and report back to us on how good (?) it was.   

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

15 minutes ago, laylalex said:

No, I don't have RBF.   When I have BF, it's very much on purpose and not when I am simply resting.  

 

Since I don't want this topic to drift off its Very Important Premise, all I want to say is to loop back to the article and say it's ridiculous for women to be expected to act in one way in the office and men another. Why don't we all act like adult human beings. with respect for each other, no matter our sex/gender/orientation?

Why. Men and women are very diffrent. 

[laylalex 7,284]

4 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I'm just proud to see SOMEONE trying to keep the traditions alive upon which this country was founded, as EY is obviously attempting to do.

 

Now be a sweetheart and go make me a sammich please.  You can let Alex eat it and report back to us on how good (?) it was.   

😠😠😠

 

And anyway, I can't make him a sandwich until Sunday. We have the drinks/nibbles thing tonight (I do not trust myself with a bread knife after a few drinks -- from experience, There Will Be Blood), and then I leave for work before noon tomorrow, and then I had planned making roast beef tomorrow night, as long as we still have power...

 

So Sunday. I will have him report back on Sunday.  

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

4 minutes ago, laylalex said:

😠😠😠

 

And anyway, I can't make him a sandwich until Sunday. We have the drinks/nibbles thing tonight (I do not trust myself with a bread knife after a few drinks -- from experience, There Will Be Blood), and then I leave for work before noon tomorrow, and then I had planned making roast beef tomorrow night, as long as we still have power...

 

So Sunday. I will have him report back on Sunday.  

Lucky you, I went through the last of my beer earlier this week and I only have tequila left. I told my wife that I won't drink any beer until Thanksgiving and she laughed pretty hard at me. I am trying to see how much weight I lose drinking tequila and not beer.