i-864 I-864a tax questions

[klp300 1]

Hello all,

I've tried to find my question already answered on VJ but couldn't. 

 

I filed and was granted an approval for the I-130 petition filed DCF in Tokyo. I did not submit the I-864 or I-864a at time of I-130 submission.

I'm settled back in the US and ready for my wife to attend the interview and submit I-864, DS260 and other documents. 

Now I am a full time graduate student not yet working. 

 

I had been working in Japan for the last three years (only income from Japan) and not filing US taxes. I filed the backlogged three years via paper mail to the IRS in Texas (including filing FBARS online), reporting my foreign earned income. However, I haven't received any official 'tax return' response from the IRS. 

The USCIS website says: 

Quote

you must file all late returns with the IRS and attach an IRS transcript or copy of your late return and submit it with Form I-864.

 

What are they expecting in terms of IRS transcript of your late returns? Does anyone know who to contact at the IRS to receive such forms?

Question 2: 

- I'm assuming my wife will be submitting the I-864a (joint sponsor portion) and my I-864 at the time of her consulate interview. Should I be sending my sponsor's I-864a tax forms directly to her to bring to the consulate? Also, do these (my joint sponsor's tax returns) have to be originals?

- Under the I-864a instructions it states that one of the qualifying household member criteria is: 

Quote

The spouse, parent, child, adult son or daughter, or sibling relative of the sponsor, if that relative has the same

principal residence as the sponsor; or

Would I need to be residing with my sibling for them to qualify as a joint sponsor? My sibling hasn't and doesn't plan on listing my wife as a dependent, one of the other criteria. 

 

Thank you everyone in advance! 

 

 

 

[Villanelle 4,122]

It takes the IRS a very very long time to process late filed returns. First they have to process it for you to then be able to get transcripts, so forget transcripts. You can send copies of the returns you filed just make sure to include all the supporting tax forms (W2s, 1099s etc). 

 

Also as your wife is the intending immigrant there is no 864a (for her). There is a place on the 864 for the intending immigrants assets and income if applicable. Her income would have to be shown that it will continue when she moves to the US for it to count. So most likely it will not so you should leave her income section blank as it will not continue.  

 

So unless you guys have assets to cover whats needed you will need a co-sponsor/joint sponsor. If you are using a qualifying household member (see the instructions) that you share a residence with- they can fill out either the 864a (attached with your 864) or they can file their own 864 as the joint sponsor (if they had a wife their wife would fill out the 864a to attach to their 864). If they are going to fill out the 864a then you are saying they are part of your household- which would increase the household size; where as if they fill out a separate 864 as a joint sponsor they are considered to be a separate household. Its probably best to have your sibling fill out their own 864 as a joint sponsor. If they are married their spouse would do the 864a to attach to it. You will fill out the 864 showing 0 income and any assets you may have and on it list the intending immigrants assets and income if the income will continue in the US. 

 

Hope that all made sense! 

[klp300 1]

Thank you Villanelle!

 

I've talked to IRS and they have processed my late returns, which they will forward to me to submit with my I-864.

 

So you're saying that I should submit two I-864s, one for my sibling (joint sponsor) plus one for myself (Petitioning sponsor, as I'm a USC)... instead of a 1864a? 

 

In this case, on the I-864, does my sibling fill out 1.d "I am the only joint sponsor" ? 

 

In terms of showing assets for myself (main sponsor), or my wife (intending immigrant), what is acceptable to include? She has been working and paying taxes in Japan (though it won't continue once she arrives in US). I had been working and paying taxes in Japan (not continuing), but have savings in JP and US bank accounts. Is this necessary to included in my I-864 if my sibling's income is plus 125% poverty? 

 

Thank you for the prompt reply! 
Any additional wisdom is greatly appreciated! 

 

 

[Villanelle 4,122]

1 hour ago, klp300 said:

Thank you Villanelle!

 

I've talked to IRS and they have processed my late returns, which they will forward to me to submit with my I-864.

 

So you're saying that I should submit two I-864s, one for my sibling (joint sponsor) plus one for myself (Petitioning sponsor, as I'm a USC)... instead of a 1864a? 

 

In this case, on the I-864, does my sibling fill out 1.d "I am the only joint sponsor" ? 

 

In terms of showing assets for myself (main sponsor), or my wife (intending immigrant), what is acceptable to include? She has been working and paying taxes in Japan (though it won't continue once she arrives in US). I had been working and paying taxes in Japan (not continuing), but have savings in JP and US bank accounts. Is this necessary to included in my I-864 if my sibling's income is plus 125% poverty? 

 

Thank you for the prompt reply! 
Any additional wisdom is greatly appreciated! 

 

 

Yes. And Yes. You are required to be the primary sponsor and fill out the 864 even if its all 00000. Your sibling would be the only joint sponsor. Your sibling will fill out the 864 and list on it any children they may have (even if the child doesnt live with them) and any spouse and any one else they may claim on their taxes. It seems like your sibling is unmarried with no kids, so it would only be them and the immigrant on the 864 making them a household size of 2. Unless you have significant assets (enough to cover the poverty guidelines) there is no point in including them. Listing assets are optional. Make sure you also show a household size of 2 on your 864. Only count your spouse as the immigrant and not as a spouse.

[klp300 1]

Thank you for the info! 

I'm looking at the form and I think I should clarify my situation

- I am married to my wife ( Japanese national, principal immigrant ). We have no children or dependents. 

- My sibling is married with 2 children (under 21, all the same household). Both are working, my sibling earns majority, though I don't know if they file together or separately yet. Is my sibling's spouse required to submit tax info if my sibling alone earns enough to cover the poverty limit? 

 

Household size: 

• For the joint sponsor (my sibling's) I854, does it matter if they file taxes jointly, does this change the household number (part 5.8)? Or would the number be 5 = (immigrant 1, sponsor 1, married 1, children 2)?  
• For my I864, you're saying enter 1 for 5.1, 1 for 5.1= total 2 for 5.8? (don't enter 1 for 5.3 "if you're currently married" section). 

Part 1/2:

• Sibling's I864: check 1.d. "I am the only joint sponsor." ?
• My I864: check 1.a. "I am the petitioner" 
• 2 (this is her current Japanese address, I'm assuming?)
• 2.a. "In care of" (what name should go here?) 2.e, f. "state, zip code" (N/A?) 2.g. "province" ( N/A?) 
• 2.3 (if there is no A-number, do I fill in 0's or leave blank?)

Part 3: 

• My sibling and I both check "yes" on 3.1 "I am sponsoring the principal immigrant" boxes on our I864s? 
• 4a-28 can be left blank? or needs "N/A" written on every line? (only one immigrant needs sponsoring)
• 3.29 would be "1" immigrant supporting?

Part 6:

• My I864: Even though I earned an income in Japan in 2018, filed a US tax return for that year, do I still enter "0" for all numbers? 
• 6.6: "unemployed since", (does this need to be filled in if I am a graduate student?) 

 

Thank you for your wisdom! 

 

 

 

[Villanelle 4,122]

On 10/23/2019 at 5:49 PM, klp300 said:

Thank you for the info! 

I'm looking at the form and I think I should clarify my situation

- I am married to my wife ( Japanese national, principal immigrant ). We have no children or dependents. 

- My sibling is married with 2 children (under 21, all the same household). Both are working, my sibling earns majority, though I don't know if they file together or separately yet. Is my sibling's spouse required to submit tax info if my sibling alone earns enough to cover the poverty limit? 

 

They probably file joint taxes because that gives people the best tax rates... If sibling earns enough then technically they can file the 864 alone (including the joint return) and they should qualify. However many times Officers ask for the 864a from their spouse just to be sure the spouse knows of the financial obligations being undertaken. It is recommended on VJ to send in the 864a from the sponsors spouse when filing rather then adding time to the process if they ask for it and you then have to present it... Its up to you if you want to include her 864a or not, but I would if its not an issue.

 

 

On 10/23/2019 at 5:49 PM, klp300 said:

Household size: 

• For the joint sponsor (my sibling's) I854, does it matter if they file taxes jointly, does this change the household number (part 5.8)? Or would the number be 5 = (immigrant 1, sponsor 1, married 1, children 2)?  
• For my I864, you're saying enter 1 for 5.1, 1 for 5.1= total 2 for 5.8? (don't enter 1 for 5.3 "if you're currently married" section). 

How you file taxes doesnt matter. Household size is calculated by adding if you have a spouse, children (whether they live with you or not, or you claim them on taxes or not) and anyone else you may claim as dependent on taxes (can be niece or nephew, or adult college age child for example)  So on siblings 864 it would be 5- exactly how you broke it down.

 

And yes. It says do not count anyone twice. Your wife is the immigrant. She is counted there and only there. Its very confusing to people because it then has a line for spouse so you feel like you should be entering them there but you do not. If you did it would total to 3 and its not 3. Its 2. The spouse line is necessary though for your sibling to be able to list the immigrant and their spouse - 2 different people.

On 10/23/2019 at 5:49 PM, klp300 said:

Part 1/2:

• Sibling's I864: check 1.d. "I am the only joint sponsor." ?
• My I864: check 1.a. "I am the petitioner" 
• 2 (this is her current Japanese address, I'm assuming?)
• 2.a. "In care of" (what name should go here?) 2.e, f. "state, zip code" (N/A?) 2.g. "province" ( N/A?) 
• 2.3 (if there is no A-number, do I fill in 0's or leave blank?)

Part 1/2 is about you. (or your sibling on their form)

Yes only joint sponsor - using household member filing 864a

Yes you are the petitioner

2 would be your address. You said you are back in the US so use the appropriate address, you can leave blank the A numbers since you do not have one.

On 10/23/2019 at 5:49 PM, klp300 said:

Part 3: 

• My sibling and I both check "yes" on 3.1 "I am sponsoring the principal immigrant" boxes on our I864s? 
• 4a-28 can be left blank? or needs "N/A" written on every line? (only one immigrant needs sponsoring)
• 3.29 would be "1" immigrant supporting?

 

Yes, blank is fine, yes 1

On 10/23/2019 at 5:49 PM, klp300 said:

Part 6:

• My I864: Even though I earned an income in Japan in 2018, filed a US tax return for that year, do I still enter "0" for all numbers? 
• 6.6: "unemployed since", (does this need to be filled in if I am a graduate student?) 

 

Thank you for your wisdom! 

 

 

 

Yes you should enter 0 since you have no income that will count. If you are not presently employed then you would check unemployed since and enter the date you stopped working.

 

If sibling spouse is doing 864a then sibling would do part 6 #8 enter spouse and her income #10. #7 would be siblings earnings. You would add 7 and 10 on #20 (20 should match joint tax return) and check 21 that they are signing on the 864a

[klp300 1]

Hi Villanelle,

Thank you for all the help in filling out these I864s, I think I've got it. 

 

2 final questions: 

1. my sibling is technically "self employed", so I've read that submitting 2-3 years of IRS tax transcripts rather than Tax Returns is advisable. I've also read in a separate post where you mentioned that including a letter is helpful to detail the nature of work, length etc. What do you advise given my case (both sibling and spouse are working, filing jointly, but sibling makes vast majority of household income, I'm not planning on having sibling's spouse file a separate i864A given the reported income amount). 

 

2. Do we know of any way to access an I130 submitted and approved application form? This would have been several months ago, and I want to make sure that the dates align with the application for interview and DS260 forms my wife will submit. Has anyone been able to access the submitted I130 forms for reference? (I'm having trouble tracking down the copies I made before submission). 

 

Thank you for your wisdom! 

[Villanelle 4,122]

There are many posts on VJ about being self-employed with the 864. Like you mentioned it is advisable to send a letter outlining the type of work simply because looking at numbers on a tax return are pretty meaningless with out an explanation. As long as their income is above the guidelines they should be fine. For self-employed people they consider your income to be whats left after all your business deductions. So someone who is self-employed and earned 100k but then deducted 60k is going to be considered to have 40k in income. For self-employed income to even be considered you need to have at least 1 tax return showing it. Having multiple years returns is ideal if possible, which it seems to be, so include them. Self-employed people also have (depending on the nature of the work) current profit loss statements and/or expected income projections- like contracts. Everyones situation is going to be different but in general someone who operates their own business (and has been for many years) usually has a pretty good idea of what is needed to show their current profits/expenses and income. The 864 is completely under the discretion of the Officer reviewing it. Some Embassies are known to be tougher then others. You can try looking in the regional forums to see what the experience is like there and if the consensus is its difficult- submit as much as you can. If its considered to be easy or standard then you dont need to go overboard. Also the 864- if they have a problem with it or want additional stuff you would simply get a 221g. That gives you an opportunity to get what they want or find another sponsor. Its not like if they dont accept the co-sponsor you are out of luck and have to start over! 

 

I really do hope you are able to find a copy of what you submitted. As far as I know there is no easy way to get copies of what you submitted besides doing a FOIA request which takes a very long time.  You may want to make a new topic post and ask -as I am not familiar with the online filing system and not many are going to see your question in this thread. 

[klp300 1]

Thanks Villanelle! 

I've got all the tax information. 

 

For my I-864, part 6 and 7 are a bit confusing. I received my transcripts for the last 3 years from the IRS, but there is nothing listed on the transcript "adjusted gross income". 

I understand for 7.1 "My current individual annual income" enter 0

For 6.20 "my current annual household income" do I enter 0 (zero)? 

6.23 have you filed tax returns for the past three years (yes)

6.24a b 😄Most recent total income, 2nd most recent, 3rd most recent (Do I enter the foreign earned income listed on my tax transcript? It's listed as "additional income" on the transcript and it's not zero, it's the amount I earned abroad. Or is it zero for all three years?) 

 

I wil be submitting my most recent tax transcript for the most recent year, and I'm concerned that the foreign income number won't be reported anywhere on the i864. 

 

Thank you so much for your help! 

[Villanelle 4,122]

It honestly doesnt matter if you fill out 0000's or the actual foreign based income because since they do not count foreign income it will be considered on their end either way as 0. Some people have entered 0 (and had no problems) and other people report entering the amounts on the return even though it is foreign and doesnt count (again with no issues). So fill it out in whatever way you feel most comfortable. On the transcripts its broken down into sections the first one being 'Income' at the bottom of the section it says total income and then goes on to the next section of adjustments. If you are going to use the numbers that would be the number you use as its the total of all your income like wages, business, SSA, pensions, other etc. 

[maggy_0035 3]

I am glad I found this question as I have a slightly similar question. I am filing out form 864, I am the petitioner, I just stopped working in December and I did not make enough money to sponsor my husband (beneficiary). We filed IRS taxes married filing jointly, though, and in a question on that form it asks how much you have made based on your IRS return for the last 3 years. Do I put the total amount of ex., $53,000 that we both made (more of his income) or should I put what my W2 shows for only my wages? How can I show immigration that I have not made enough to sponsor my husband (we are using a co-sponsor)

[klp300 1]

Hi Maggy_0035,

I also used a co-sponsor, and submitted the co-sponsor's 864 along with mine, so I believe that submitting two 864s (your's and the co-sponsor's) was 'the way to show' you haven't made enough to sponsor your husband. I didn't face any troubles with this. [I was originally confused about whether to submit an I-864A for my sponsor, or two standard I-864s for both me and my co-sponsor. Villanelle was kind to clarify that you should submit two 864s, and only an 864A if USCIS asks or you believe the spouse of the sponsor wishes to submit.

I'm not clear about joint tax filing in this case, as we had filed separately. I would ask other VJ members about joint-filing situations. Regardless of how much you or your spouse earned, as long as your co-sponsor's income satisfies the income requirements (also considering their number of dependents etc.) I would speculate that you shouldn't have problems. 

[Lil bear 4,210]

17 hours ago, maggy_0035 said:

I am glad I found this question as I have a slightly similar question. I am filing out form 864, I am the petitioner, I just stopped working in December and I did not make enough money to sponsor my husband (beneficiary). We filed IRS taxes married filing jointly, though, and in a question on that form it asks how much you have made based on your IRS return for the last 3 years. Do I put the total amount of ex., $53,000 that we both made (more of his income) or should I put what my W2 shows for only my wages? How can I show immigration that I have not made enough to sponsor my husband (we are using a co-sponsor)

Just a bit of clarity needed .. it can be confusing ..  joint sponsor is the correct term to use when the petitioner does  not meet the financial requirements and has another person step into the role of sponsor, who meets the requirements on their own. Both complete their own I 864

A co sponsor is the term often used when the petitioner is using a household member ., as defined in the instructions for the 864,.. and by adding their income to the petitioners income will  meet the requirement. In this situation, the petitioner completes the I 864, listing the household member on there ,  and the “cosponsor” completes an I 864a