No kids please, we're selfish

[PlatyPius 5]

How is it YOUR business if I raise my daughter myself without asking for anyone's help Mark? How is my daughter YOUR business? I have never used anyone's tax dollars (that I knowingly was aware of) to raise my daughter. Not even when I was a single mother and had it almost pushed in my face. I have seen to my daughter's care myself without any assistance from anyone, not even you. So I fail to see how my pregnancy, my daugher's birth (paid for by me, with insurance paid for by me), and her life thus far is any of your concern.

Scott...I can see your point when it comes to public assistance paying for babies. But what would you suggest to be done about YOUR tax dollars paying for other people's babies? I'm not crazy about it either but I serioulsy doubt there will be legislation to change that during our lifetime. The ONLY reason I'm glad it's in place is for the baby. That baby did NOT ask to be created, nor brought into the world. A lot of women who have numerous babies and have them paid for by public assistance do so to receive more welfare. Each child raises the amount so to them, the more the merrier...money wise that is.

Does your daughter go to a private school where you pay 100% of the tuition? If not, then yes...it IS our business. The more kids that people pop out, the higher property taxes are for everyone to support the current schools, build new schools, etc. It really isn't a difficult concept...

Edited June 9, 2007 by PlatyPius

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I know this isn't the case for everyone, but don't many people feel the desire to procreate instinctually? In which case, how could that possibly be selfish?

It seems like the definition of selfish is being warped here.

Can an instinctual desire be selfish?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Those that don't want children, have it your way.

To me, life would be pointless if I departed and left nothing behind.

Yes, my baby has changed our lives tremendously and that will continue to be the case. But when I see her smile at me when she wakes up and when I come home from work, when she grabs my hand and stares at me with those sparkly eyes, I tell you, I wouldn't want to miss that for anything.

That's biology at work. There're cute so we won't be inclined to kill them.

A declining population is a good thing. We need to make room for all those illegals.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

How is it YOUR business if I raise my daughter myself without asking for anyone's help Mark? How is my daughter YOUR business? I have never used anyone's tax dollars (that I knowingly was aware of) to raise my daughter. Not even when I was a single mother and had it almost pushed in my face. I have seen to my daughter's care myself without any assistance from anyone, not even you. So I fail to see how my pregnancy, my daugher's birth (paid for by me, with insurance paid for by me), and her life thus far is any of your concern.

Scott...I can see your point when it comes to public assistance paying for babies. But what would you suggest to be done about YOUR tax dollars paying for other people's babies? I'm not crazy about it either but I serioulsy doubt there will be legislation to change that during our lifetime. The ONLY reason I'm glad it's in place is for the baby. That baby did NOT ask to be created, nor brought into the world. A lot of women who have numerous babies and have them paid for by public assistance do so to receive more welfare. Each child raises the amount so to them, the more the merrier...money wise that is.

Does your daughter go to a private school where you pay 100% of the tuition? If not, then yes...it IS our business. The more kids that people pop out, the higher property taxes are for everyone to support the current schools, build new schools, etc. It really isn't a difficult concept...

Also, as long as we're being academic about this, insurance is (by definition) collective.

A declining population is a good thing. We need to make room for all those illegals.

Flyover land is still empty. Plenty of room here.

[KarenCee 3]

Well, as I've said before...this is getting nowhere. Everyone has their own opinion, that's the beauty of America. As long as I pay my bills, pay for my daughter's upkeep, pay my taxes (which do go to fund public schools), and don't ask for any handouts, I will still be of the opinion that my daughter is my business. Argue with me all you want on this...I stand by what I say.

BTW, the reason we're having to build so many public schools IMHO is the ones that have baby after baby on the welfare system AND the many illegals who come here and have babies here in the States. I can see how that would make it everyone else's business. Our tax dollars go to pay for this. Countless times.

[mawilson 2,133]

Well, as I've said before...this is getting nowhere. Everyone has their own opinion, that's the beauty of America. As long as I pay my bills, pay for my daughter's upkeep, pay my taxes (which do go to fund public schools), and don't ask for any handouts, I will still be of the opinion that my daughter is my business. Argue with me all you want on this...I stand by what I say.

BTW, the reason we're having to build so many public schools IMHO is the ones that have baby after baby on the welfare system AND the many illegals who come here and have babies here in the States. I can see how that would make it everyone else's business. Our tax dollars go to pay for this. Countless times.

Your daughter is a human being who doesn't exist in a vacuum. She breathes, eats, drinks and contributes

to global warming. She's one more person we have to share the planet with. I'm not saying it's good or bad,

but she's definitely not "only your" business.

[natty bumppo 297]

Well, as I've said before...this is getting nowhere. Everyone has their own opinion, that's the beauty of America. As long as I pay my bills, pay for my daughter's upkeep, pay my taxes (which do go to fund public schools), and don't ask for any handouts, I will still be of the opinion that my daughter is my business. Argue with me all you want on this...I stand by what I say.

okay, I'll play too ... just for discussion & fun ... here goes:

so ... me as a childless adult, who pays taxes ... definitely school taxes as part of it ... at an equal rate to you ... what is my benefit to educate your daughter? I'd like to see my taxes reduced because I am less of a burden on social services than you are.

[KarenCee 3]

Well, as I've said before...this is getting nowhere. Everyone has their own opinion, that's the beauty of America. As long as I pay my bills, pay for my daughter's upkeep, pay my taxes (which do go to fund public schools), and don't ask for any handouts, I will still be of the opinion that my daughter is my business. Argue with me all you want on this...I stand by what I say.

BTW, the reason we're having to build so many public schools IMHO is the ones that have baby after baby on the welfare system AND the many illegals who come here and have babies here in the States. I can see how that would make it everyone else's business. Our tax dollars go to pay for this. Countless times.

Your daughter is a human being who doesn't exist in a vacuum. She breathes, eats, drinks and contributes

to global warming. She's one more person we have to share the planet with. I'm not saying it's good or bad,

but she's definitely not "only your" business.

Ok...tell me this then. To what extent do you (and others) want to be a part of my business in regards to my daughter? How much you want to be involved? Do you want to make decisions? What level of involvement would satisfy this concept that my child (and anyone else's) is your business? Should I have asked permission from someone before I conceived and had this child? Tell me what you want to know...let's just make the whole population of children your business. I do believe you would be a very busy person.

She is definately a human being...a very special child that has added more to my life than anything on this earth save my husband. Not once have I referred to her, deliberate or indirectly, as anything other. She is not just a thing in my home...she is my life.

You breathe, drink, eat, and contribute to global warming. That makes YOU my business then. You are one more person to share this earth with but I'm not complaining. Your life is your life and I believe the same should apply to me. Should you ever choose to have a child I won't have one word to say. If you choose not to, the same applies. What is so friggin hard about this? Everyone wants to be in everyone else's business it seems. Maybe that's not what you imply by your comments, but I still haven't been told HOW my child is anyone's business.

Yes, I can argue with a fence post. Must be my southern upbringing.

[homesick_american 1]

How is it YOUR business if I raise my daughter myself without asking for anyone's help Mark? How is my daughter YOUR business? I have never used anyone's tax dollars (that I knowingly was aware of) to raise my daughter. Not even when I was a single mother and had it almost pushed in my face. I have seen to my daughter's care myself without any assistance from anyone, not even you. So I fail to see how my pregnancy, my daugher's birth (paid for by me, with insurance paid for by me), and her life thus far is any of your concern.

Scott...I can see your point when it comes to public assistance paying for babies. But what would you suggest to be done about YOUR tax dollars paying for other people's babies? I'm not crazy about it either but I serioulsy doubt there will be legislation to change that during our lifetime. The ONLY reason I'm glad it's in place is for the baby. That baby did NOT ask to be created, nor brought into the world. A lot of women who have numerous babies and have them paid for by public assistance do so to receive more welfare. Each child raises the amount so to them, the more the merrier...money wise that is.

Does your daughter go to a private school where you pay 100% of the tuition? If not, then yes...it IS our business. The more kids that people pop out, the higher property taxes are for everyone to support the current schools, build new schools, etc. It really isn't a difficult concept...

Oh, come on. KarenCee is clearly not a welfare queen. And even if she did send her daughter to a private school that would not completely relieve your tax burden as many private schools receive at least SOME government funding as well; few schools are 100% private.

Plus, paying for today's children to be educated is in YOUR best interests too. Also, in some states (past a certain age) you can get some of the school money knocked off your property taxes.

[natty bumppo 297]

Plus, paying for today's children to be educated is in YOUR best interests too. Also, in some states (past a certain age) you can get some of the school money knocked off your property taxes.

depends on where you live

[Marilyn. 340]

also these kids might be your future leaders some day.. shouldn't you have a hand in bringing them up by paying your taxes for their schooling etc....

Edited June 9, 2007 by MarilynP

[MichelleandCraig 1]

This thread has been an interesting read. It all breaks down rather simply for me though. If I want to have a child, I'm gonna, regardless of what anyone else things (aside from my husband, of course!) and if I don't want to, I won't. People could tell me all day why I shouldn't and blah blah...and I wouldn't really pay any attention to it, tbh.

Only other comment to Platy....what about the social security issues, etc that have been brought up? Most people can't afford to live *soley* on what they've saved for retirement once they reach that age. If everyone (even though it would never happen..just say) stopped having children...what would happen then?

Ah well. All individual choice, and I think most in this thread are the same. There's nothing wrong with having a debate about something, but let's face it...if people really want a child and they're able..nothing is going to stop them/change their minds...if they really don't...same deal. M.

[KarenCee 3]

Well, as I've said before...this is getting nowhere. Everyone has their own opinion, that's the beauty of America. As long as I pay my bills, pay for my daughter's upkeep, pay my taxes (which do go to fund public schools), and don't ask for any handouts, I will still be of the opinion that my daughter is my business. Argue with me all you want on this...I stand by what I say.

okay, I'll play too ... just for discussion & fun ... here goes:

so ... me as a childless adult, who pays taxes ... definitely school taxes as part of it ... at an equal rate to you ... what is my benefit to educate your daughter? I'd like to see my taxes reduced because I am less of a burden on social services than you are.

Since my job is education, it is my job to make sure each and every child gets the best education possible. The benefit to educate my daughter? Our children are the future of this country, scary as that seems. Some of these same children will someday make the decisions for this country. I would definately want those children educated as good as possible. I am in agreement that if one does not have children in the public school sector that taxes should be reduced or eliminated altogether for the elderly. Who knows...my daughter may be just the one that gets something like this passed...all due to your tax dollars working towards her education.

I'm no burden on Social Services as I do not receive any assistance from them at all. Unless by SS you mean something totally different.

[sparkofcreation 0]

This may be true, but do you know how long it takes to adopt? The cost of adoption? The long list, the wait time, and the cost make it sometimes rather prohibitive to those that would be EXCELLENT parents.

Yes, actually, I do. I both have worked with the foster care system and know many people who have adopted and a few who have been adopted.

I'd imagine it's somewhere around the time and cost of conceiving and carrying a pregnancy to term.

[natty bumppo 297]

Yes, I can argue with a fence post. Must be my southern upbringing.

sure you don't have some yankee in you too ?

to continue the discussion

we are all permitted to vote, be elected, be appointed to boards, etc. that serve/ decide the educational purpose (schools, parks, recreation, etc) for children. Doesn't matter if we have children or not.

I am in agreement that if one does not have children in the public school sector that taxes should be reduced or eliminated altogether for the elderly.

I'm not elderly ... in my mid 40's, have no children, yet am taxed as if I do. Why is this fair to me, to wait until I'm the same age as a person who had children to receive a reduction benefit? (if I understood your sentence correctly)