No kids please, we're selfish

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Those that don't want children, have it your way.

To me, life would be pointless if I departed and left nothing behind.

Yes, my baby has changed our lives tremendously and that will continue to be the case. But when I see her smile at me when she wakes up and when I come home from work, when she grabs my hand and stares at me with those sparkly eyes, I tell you, I wouldn't want to miss that for anything.

[LaL 418]

I thought all the stuff about preserving a race and that tangent she got off on about racial pride was a little bit odd and beside the point.

I was thinking the same when I read that. I think if we were to have children they would be fabulously mixed . Some of the points in the article were an interesting read, I just don't buy the whole - "I am CF and embrace my narcissistic self". I think part of being a narcissist is also being sociopathic . I just decided I didnt want to parent a child, which I think is looking far more forward that having that need for a baby.

We love being a CF couple. Sure all of our friends are having or have had kids, and there is some little bit deep down when we are really honest that it would be cool to have a family, but we love our freedom. We love the fact that nothing needs to be planned and we are able to live on our own whims. Selfish? could be, but a general lack of interest was all we needed to make our decision easy.

I do think parenting is the utmost selfless job, and I apreciate those who do.

[pedroh 21]

*shrug* If that's how they feel, they shouldn't have kids anyway. Is this supposed to be upsetting? I'd be more upset if people like that had kids.

No, I posted it because I feel the same way. It wasn't supposed to be upsetting, I was

rather hoping it would be an eye-opener for some people. I applaud this woman for

writing this thought-provoking article and having the audacity to say what many of us

(childless couples - by choice) are thinking but don’t have the courage to admit.

Yes, I don't want children because they are untidy and would mess up my apartment.

I don't want them because they would steal time away from other things I'd rather

be doing. At the same time, I feel that if anyone should be having children, why

shouldn't it be me/us? I'd like to think that I could offer more to a child than a two-bit

hussy down the road paying for groceries with the mighty power of the food stamp.

And yes, I think racial pride is important too, unless you want everyone to look the

same in 100 years (dark hair, dark skin and dark eyes.)

but can't racial pride leave to some other problems? it sounds very ah, weird (don't wanna throw the race card) when someone says: "I don't want my daughter to marry an african-american, or indian, she has to marry a white person, to preserve our white heritage". what's wrong with the other heritages, or what's so special about it.. same if people from other countries want to mate only with people their color, religion or so.. isn't that elitist or discriminatory?

isn't racial pride something passe? only people who belong to the mecha's, or American Renaissance, or White supremacist groups think about 'racial pride', when a lot of us have been mutts since 100's of years ago.. there's no longer that 'racial purity' they try to claim..

im just trying to understand, because coming from a mestizo society, i really don't get it

Edited June 8, 2007 by pedroh

[Scott & Lai 12]

Economics is one of the biggest reasons we chose not to have children. It takes both our incomes to afford a reasonably comfortable existence; with only one of us working, we'd have an extremely difficult time staying afloat with just the two of us, to say nothing of supporting a child for 18 years. We certainly wouldn't be able to take any trips back to Hong Kong for a long time. And I do not believe in intentionally producing a child that one cannot afford to feed, house and otherwise provide for without government assistance, i.e. your neighbor's money.

Also, with Lai nearing her 40s, there is the dramatically increasing chance of having a child with mental or physical disabilities. I worked for three years with profoundly mentally retarded adults....I know I couldn't handle doing that 24/7 for the rest of our lives.

[Lizzy 0]

I am 8 weeks pregnant and have a daughter whom is 5.. to me a life without children would not be worth it... but then again are we not all different?

Who can say who is wrong or right for having them or not? Thats why we are called individuals.

[homesick_american 1]

I thought all the stuff about preserving a race and that tangent she got off on about racial pride was a little bit odd and beside the point.

It's The Guardian, what do you expect? That whole paper is a little bit odd and beside the point. I should send you an issue sometime, makes for horrifying reading.

The Guardian is one of the most hilarious papers going in the UK. Unintentionally, of course. It is chock full of mistakes and spelling errors, to the point where nearly every edition has a few columns of mistakes needing rectification.

It is certainly one of a kind!

Yes, and thank god for that! :lol: :lol: I don't read it anymore, it's way too left-wing and anti-American for me.

I don't mean to keep listing examples, but I do think self interest is often only seen as an evil in the world. Sometimes it's a good thing!

Sure, sometimes. I'm glad not everyone thinks like the article's author, though. Otherwise we'd be in big trouble. However I don't think there's much danger of us running out of children anytime soon and people like the author should definitely NOT have children if they are unwilling to put anyone else ahead of themselves.

She's not unwilling, she just prefers not to. I think the way you put it makes her motivations sound very negative. Preferring to put yourself before a child is only selfish if you already have children.

I think you're splitting hairs here.

[homesick_american 1]

I'm with Mags (obviously)... I can't stand children, and don't want any more.

Why do people act like a shrinking population is a BAD thing? I'd be quite happy if 99% of the population just went away.

Don't even get me started on childless or "less-than-two-kids" couples having to foot the bill for the breeders of the world...

What I'm damn tired of though is the looks of disgust and/or horror when Sian and I tell people we aren't planning on having any kids. They just can't grasp the fact that some people really DO dislike kids.

You're footing the bill now, but they'll be paying for you in your old age so it all works out. You should want to pay for their educations anyway, otherwise your social security will be paid by a bunch of burger flippers.

I'm not disgusted that you guys aren't having kids; to be quite honest I could not care less. It's your lives.

but can't racial pride leave to some other problems? it sounds very ah, weird (don't wanna throw the race card) when someone says: "I don't want my daughter to marry an african-american, or indian, she has to marry a white person, to preserve our white heritage". what's wrong with the other heritages, or what's so special about it.. same if people from other countries want to mate only with people their color, religion or so.. isn't that elitist or discriminatory?

isn't racial pride something passe? only people who belong to the mecha's, or American Renaissance, or White supremacist groups think about 'racial pride', when a lot of us have been mutts since 100's of years ago.. there's no longer that 'racial purity' they try to claim..

im just trying to understand, because coming from a mestizo society, i really don't get it

I look white but I'm not 100% white, so I don't get it either. :lol: Exactly whose heritage would I be preserving here?

[Sharon 1]

My reasoning:

I'm just not ready to know what an 8 pound baby feels like coming out of my #######.

*wiping coffee off my monitor*

[pedroh 21]

I'm with Mags (obviously)... I can't stand children, and don't want any more.

Why do people act like a shrinking population is a BAD thing? I'd be quite happy if 99% of the population just went away.

Don't even get me started on childless or "less-than-two-kids" couples having to foot the bill for the breeders of the world...

What I'm damn tired of though is the looks of disgust and/or horror when Sian and I tell people we aren't planning on having any kids. They just can't grasp the fact that some people really DO dislike kids.

You're footing the bill now, but they'll be paying for you in your old age so it all works out. You should want to pay for their educations anyway, otherwise your social security will be paid by a bunch of burger flippers.

I'm not disgusted that you guys aren't having kids; to be quite honest I could not care less. It's your lives.

but can't racial pride leave to some other problems? it sounds very ah, weird (don't wanna throw the race card) when someone says: "I don't want my daughter to marry an african-american, or indian, she has to marry a white person, to preserve our white heritage". what's wrong with the other heritages, or what's so special about it.. same if people from other countries want to mate only with people their color, religion or so.. isn't that elitist or discriminatory?

isn't racial pride something passe? only people who belong to the mecha's, or American Renaissance, or White supremacist groups think about 'racial pride', when a lot of us have been mutts since 100's of years ago.. there's no longer that 'racial purity' they try to claim..

im just trying to understand, because coming from a mestizo society, i really don't get it

I look white but I'm not 100% white, so I don't get it either. :lol: Exactly whose heritage would I be preserving here?

exactly lol.. so i dont get the racial pride either..

[homesick_american 1]

exactly lol.. so i dont get the racial pride either..

Both my husband and I are a mishmash of different ethnic backgrounds, though his are all western/northern European. Mine aren't. Any kids we have will need a pie chart to figure out their own ethnic makeup.

[Dr_LHA 3]

Has anyone seen the movie "Idiocracy"? If so I'm reminded of the opening of that movie. If not, you should go rent it!

[Cassie 8]

My reasoning:

I'm just not ready to know what an 8 pound baby feels like coming out of my #######.

*wiping coffee off my monitor*

I loved this response too! :thumbs:

My husband and I both agree that right now for a variety of reasons we won't be having any children right now. When/if we do, we'll probably adopt.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Narcissism.......

at least 5..

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

4.requires excessive admiration

5.has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7.lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

8.is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

9.shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

I thought narcissism was fairly typical among people with sociopathic tendencies...

[pedroh 21]

exactly lol.. so i dont get the racial pride either..

Both my husband and I are a mishmash of different ethnic backgrounds, though his are all western/northern European. Mine aren't. Any kids we have will need a pie chart to figure out their own ethnic makeup.

ditto, my wife can trace her background to mostly scandinavian/german roots.. but me.. i dont even know.. so yea, i'd need a pie chart too for my kids lol

[almaty 19]

Narcissism.......

at least 5..

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

4.requires excessive admiration

5.has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7.lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

8.is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

9.shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

I thought narcissism was fairly typical among people with sociopathic tendencies...

you are right it is...........goes hand in hand..but not limited to those who are asocial..is a stand alone diagnosis also...