25,000 Evangelical Christian Youth rally against promiscuity and corporate culture

[ace13 0]

Cian,

Paganism is a religion so your argument supports what approvemedammit said.

She said there is no morality without religion.

She didn't say there is no morality without Christianity.

[Reba 2]

and a point of view from another Pagan, (Celtic re-con) which will greatly differ!

I have no problem at all with same sex marriage, and call it marriage, because that's what it is I have no problem with gay parents adopting, if they're loving parents, that's all that matters. I have no problem with sex before marriage, otherwise how else would you know you're compatible? Having children out of wedlock is ok too, and this does not necessarily mean that there is only one parent either, my parents never "legally" married, but were together better or worse (there was more worse than anything) for over 35 years. Does that make Me less of a person because I was "born out of wedlock?" hmmm?

I also have no problem with alcohol consumption, Jesus drank wine, he didn't go to hell did he? Heck, he MADE wine! Anything in moderation. Except chocolate

I agree that there is probably too much sex on TV, but I think parents really need to take more of an active roll in their children's upbringing, and don't just plop them down in front of the set and not pay attention to what's on. I think parents really really really ought not to take their 4 and 5 year old children to PG13 and R rated movies, and yet I see them there more often than not. And then those same parents take their kids to church on Sundays where they learn that that movie they watched on Friday is Bad Bad Bad.

I think parents need to Realistically teach their children about sex and relationships, rather than gloss over it and tell them to just abstain until they're married. It ain't gonna happen! Teach them about disease and pregnancy (and YES it can happen the first time!) and everything else they NEED to know about rather than have them find out the hard way.

I believe that even non-Christians can be moral and live good lives and be good people. I am a non-Christian and I am a good person. And, oddly, I DO believe that the Judeo/Christian/Islamist God exists, I just Don't believe that he's the Only one I Don't believe that I Need a savior. I believe death is just like life and it is what you make it. If you believe in Hell and that you have sinned and you'll go to hell, then that's probably true. If you believe in Heaven and that you've been a good person and you'll go there, then that's probably true too. Me, I'm going to the Otherworld, and then I'll probably come back AGAIN sometime.

If any of that makes me immoral to a Christian's eyes, well then that's fine. But I KNOW I'm a good person, and I KNOW I won't burn in Hell. (Unless of course we move there like my hubby wants to and I burn myself on the stove er summat...) How do I know this? God told me.

[PlatyPius 5]

Cian,

Paganism is a religion so your argument supports what approvemedammit said.

She said there is no morality without religion.

She didn't say there is no morality without Christianity.

Oh really?

Go find me (from a reputable source) the tenants of the religion of Paganism....

Pagan - orig. latin def. "country dweller". Modern: Anyone who is not a follower of the Jewish, Islam, or Christian (Abrahamic) faiths.

Pagan is a classification, not a religion. Wicca is a pagan religion. It is not one of the "Big Three". However, I am not Wiccan.

There are pagan religions, but there is no religion called "Pagan".

I do not believe in any god-type beings at all. I do not have a "religion", yet I classify myself as a pagan because I am not an athiest, either.

[ace13 0]

Cian,

Paganism is a religion so your argument supports what approvemedammit said.

She said there is no morality without religion.

She didn't say there is no morality without Christianity.

Oh really?

Go find me (from a reputable source) the tenants of the religion of Paganism....

Pagan - orig. latin def. "country dweller". Modern: Anyone who is not a follower of the Jewish, Islam, or Christian (Abrahamic) faiths.

Pagan is a classification, not a religion. Wicca is a pagan religion. It is not one of the "Big Three". However, I am not Wiccan.

There are pagan religions, but there is no religion called "Pagan".

I do not believe in any god-type beings at all. I do not have a "religion", yet I classify myself as a pagan because I am not an athiest, either.

How about Paganpride.org. Sounds pretty reputable.

A Pagan or NeoPagan is someone who self-identifies as a Pagan, and whose spiritual or religious practice or belief fits into one or more of the following categories:

* Honoring, revering, or worshipping a Deity or Deities found in pre-Christian, classical, aboriginal, or tribal mythology; and/or

* Practicing religion or spirituality based upon shamanism, shamanic, or magickal practices; and/or

* Creating new religion based on past Pagan religions and/or futuristic views of society, community, and/or ecology; and/or

* Focusing religious or spiritual attention primarily on the Divine Feminine.

[PlatyPius 5]

and a point of view from another Pagan, (Celtic re-con) which will greatly differ!

Not just a pagan, but a pagan following one of the most difficult paths, since very little was left of the Celtic beliefs after the Catholic Church got through with them.

Walk in Beauty,

Cian

[ChristinaM 0]

Christians hold the patend on a very particular brand of morality. Unfortunately, they tend to package it with a large amount of hypocrisy and "Because I said so!" self-righteousness, and many feel that their way is the only way.

Morality is not about doctrine. It's about considering the options and choosing what is right to you based on the inherent priciples in your life. It's not about doing something because the Bible says it must be so. It is about context. It is about intelligent consideration, rationalisation and justification. Feel the way you feel about any given subject, but have a better explanation for your standpoint than "Because Jesus made it happen that way". Don't use Christianity (or any religion) as the sole basis for an ethical view and accept that others have different justifications for their views that are equally valid.

[PlatyPius 5]

How about Paganpride.org. Sounds pretty reputable.

A Pagan or NeoPagan is someone who self-identifies as a Pagan, and whose spiritual or religious practice or belief fits into one or more of the following categories:

* Honoring, revering, or worshipping a Deity or Deities found in pre-Christian, classical, aboriginal, or tribal mythology; and/or

* Practicing religion or spirituality based upon shamanism, shamanic, or magickal practices; and/or

* Creating new religion based on past Pagan religions and/or futuristic views of society, community, and/or ecology; and/or

* Focusing religious or spiritual attention primarily on the Divine Feminine.

Nope, sorry. Close, though. I am a spiritual person; I am not a religious person. Very, very different.

(For the record, I don't agree at all with PaganPride. They are describing NeoPaganism.)

However..... the second one would be close. Roughly defined, I practice a spirituality that is somewhat shamanistic in nature. Still, I believe in no gods, nor do I have a set list of beliefs. I also engage in no ritual or ceremony of any sort.

[Reba 2]

Don't use Christianity (or any religion) as the sole basis for an ethical view and accept that others have different justifications for their views that are equally valid.

exactly. Many religions, not just Christianity, have "the golden rule" do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is basically how I have tried to live my life, and one of the few things that I took from 9 years of Catholic schooling

I would like people to treat me with respect, so I try to respect others. (I'm not perfect, nobody is, but at least we can try!). I would prefer that no one steals from me, or murders me, or abuses me, or vandalizes my property, or insults me or or or...so I try not to do those things to other people. If someone Has insulted me, or abused me, or vandalized my property, then I do not associate with that/those people. I don't just go do it back to them. That's petty, and petty people suck I don't believe in a #######-for-tat eye for an eye society. We just end up with a lot of blind petty people

[Vipul and Jamie 0]

People are free to have sex before marriage and that is their choice. What I choose for me is my choice and personal. (That's true. Nobody said it isn't.) If someone asked me, I would express my opinion about it but not hold up a sign downtown displaying my personal beliefs. (There are millions of other groups that protest in the streets beside Christians from time to time. It's called Freedom of Speech.) Heck, I could do that all day. Just because I believe something doesn't mean everyone else should too. (True.) Many people live very happy lives with having sex before their marriage - and that's ok. (For some people that's ok with them. For many Christians it's not. Just as one has the right to say it's right the other has just as much right to say it's wrong.)

If you want to protest in the name of the Lord then do it to your own congregation (Again, we have freedom of speech in this country. That's one thing I love about my country. I may not agree with the ideology behind a gay march or abortion rights activist holding up signs in the street but I am glad they have the right and are free to do so.) and in your own life. Work on the people that believe and set an example yourself.

I like how they pick certain things to deal with too.....how about sloth? Maybe they should work on that one? Oh wait.......many of those protesters actually might be lazy so let's forget about that one. (umm..ok)

Unless you are willing to go all the way and practice your life perfectly according to the Bible, then you have no right to tell other people how to live in the name of Christianity. (No, we don't have the right to judge someone. That's true. We do have the right to say openly and freely what we believe in just as anyone else does. If you want to tell me that sex outside of marriage is right then be prepared for me to tell you my opinion. What's unfair about that??? ) What Christians Leave the preaching to Jesus and the bible. And check first before casting that stone. (Christians, just as everyone else, aren't perfect. I try t do the best I can to treat people in the way I feel Jesus would have me to. Do I always? no. Have I judged someone before that I had no right in doing so? Yep. many times. Everybody does from time to time. Doesn't make one a hypocrite - just human.)

-Jamie

Edited June 6, 2006 by VipulandJamie

[ace13 0]

How about Paganpride.org. Sounds pretty reputable.

A Pagan or NeoPagan is someone who self-identifies as a Pagan, and whose spiritual or religious practice or belief fits into one or more of the following categories:

* Honoring, revering, or worshipping a Deity or Deities found in pre-Christian, classical, aboriginal, or tribal mythology; and/or

* Practicing religion or spirituality based upon shamanism, shamanic, or magickal practices; and/or

* Creating new religion based on past Pagan religions and/or futuristic views of society, community, and/or ecology; and/or

* Focusing religious or spiritual attention primarily on the Divine Feminine.

Nope, sorry. Close, though. I am a spiritual person; I am not a religious person. Very, very different.

(For the record, I don't agree at all with PaganPride. They are describing NeoPaganism.)

However..... the second one would be close. Roughly defined, I practice a spirituality that is somewhat shamanistic in nature. Still, I believe in no gods, nor do I have a set list of beliefs. I also engage in no ritual or ceremony of any sort.

That is soooo gray, man.

IMO you may not call it a religion but it totally is. So basically you believe there are spirits, but no gods. I am not sure what shamanistic means. Can you fill me in?

[pedroh 21]

ahh that old argument...can only be moral if Christian...

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I always did enjoy when you put words in my mouth (or words in my post, rather).

Let me ask this though - how many of you NON Christians are anti gay marriage, anti-abortion, anti gay adoption, will be disappointed if your children have sex before marriage, are anti children-out-of-wedlock, and drink little to no alcohol?

there's morality even if there's no religion.. thats a basic principle..

I disagree. At least, there's not MUCH morality without religion.

well according to several philosophers morality is a universal principle..

[PlatyPius 5]

How about Paganpride.org. Sounds pretty reputable.

A Pagan or NeoPagan is someone who self-identifies as a Pagan, and whose spiritual or religious practice or belief fits into one or more of the following categories:

* Honoring, revering, or worshipping a Deity or Deities found in pre-Christian, classical, aboriginal, or tribal mythology; and/or

* Practicing religion or spirituality based upon shamanism, shamanic, or magickal practices; and/or

* Creating new religion based on past Pagan religions and/or futuristic views of society, community, and/or ecology; and/or

* Focusing religious or spiritual attention primarily on the Divine Feminine.

Nope, sorry. Close, though. I am a spiritual person; I am not a religious person. Very, very different.

(For the record, I don't agree at all with PaganPride. They are describing NeoPaganism.)

However..... the second one would be close. Roughly defined, I practice a spirituality that is somewhat shamanistic in nature. Still, I believe in no gods, nor do I have a set list of beliefs. I also engage in no ritual or ceremony of any sort.

That is soooo gray, man.

IMO you may not call it a religion but it totally is. So basically you believe there are spirits, but no gods. I am not sure what shamanistic means. Can you fill me in?

Well, as I said; what I believe is somewhat shamanistic in nature; it isn't shamanism. Shamanism, roughly translated from the original language (what's the language of Mongolia???) means "the one who knows". Shamans were the healers of their tribes. Often, this was done through communication with spirits. In modern definitions, it is someone who looks at the world in an animistic way, communicates with spirits, etc.

I don't believe in spirits. Ergo, what I believe can only somewhat resemble shamanism. To be more precise, my beliefs lean more toward animism (belief that spirits, souls inhabit every object on Earth). Yet it isn't that either, due to the lack of belief in souls or spirits. Call it Science meets Animism, maybe. lol I believe that everything on Earth is connected. I don't necessarily believe that there is any intelligence behind this connection, just that it is there.

I also believe that more things are sentient than most people believe. Trees, for instance. I don't think trees are gods, or any such thing, just that they are aware. *shrugs* See? Not a religion. Just a few vague beliefs.

[Traviesa 0]

I don't understand morality without religion. I mean, why would you? It's like, if I don't believe that Jesus died for my sins and that I'm going to Heaven someday, why live a moral life? What would be the point...may as well "eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we DIE."

[Jenn! 918]

I don't understand morality without religion. I mean, why would you? It's like, if I don't believe that Jesus died for my sins and that I'm going to Heaven someday, why live a moral life? What would be the point...may as well "eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we DIE."

But the fact is that people do manage to live moral lives without religion. Is the only reason religious people are moral is because they're worried about the afterlife?

[PlatyPius 5]

I don't understand morality without religion. I mean, why would you? It's like, if I don't believe that Jesus died for my sins and that I'm going to Heaven someday, why live a moral life? What would be the point...may as well "eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we DIE."

Morals, as well as many other things, predate Christianity, you know....

Morals are about the ability of a society to function in a cohesive, complimentary way. Religion came after the fact as a way to impose those morals on the people who would otherwise ignore them.

Look at many of the "laws" in the Torah/Old Testament. They are solely for the functioning of society. Do you think G-d really cares if someone eats pork? No, but given the time and the lack of understanding about medicine and disease, the rule about pork probably stopped a lot of cases of trichinosis, I'd bet.