25,000 Evangelical Christian Youth rally against promiscuity and corporate culture

[Sister Fracas 5]

That is completely non-sensical! How can you CHOOSE to have faith or not??!?!?!?!?

That really is an excellent question. I don't think it IS free will. I think you either have it or you don't. I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow. I don't choose to believe that...I just believe it will.

[chri'stina 190]

Merc you know I respect you and all...but you are getting very philosophical here. I believe the New Testament really does answer all these hypothetical Q's you are asking. Why would Jesus tell his disciples to go preach the gospel, if no one but God himself was allowed to talk about it? And Paul in the bible went around preaching and many many others. I feel what you are saying is kind of a western world attitude, of not wanting to ever step on anyone's toes or every make anyone upset about your beliefs. The beliefs of the bible themselves, are definitely not going to be liked by everyone. But I feel like you are turning it into a philosophical thing that is getting more and more complex, rather than the simple gospel of Jesus...that he came to die for us, because we could not save ourselves, and that we are to live a life that honors him. If we spend all our time arguing about who should or should not ever mention God to people, that would kind of defeat the purpose of him coming.

Again we have to agree to disagree I guess.

Religion in itself is philosophy though.....and that's part of the issue and what I am trying to illustrate. There are many ways to interpret words. Only the true definition can be attained from the source. What we are given is the Bible as the guide. The only one that can truly preach is the Lord. Everyone else is just trying to spread a word with their imperfect understanding of it.

"rather than the simple gospel of Jesus...that he came to die for us, because we could not save ourselves, and that we are to live a life that honors him."

If we left it at that.....life could be very peaceful.....but we don't.

ok...

I think I have to throw in the towel for today(or possibly for the weekend). This thread is taking so much time, that I am not doing other things I should be!! While on one hand I find it exhausting to be in this kind of thread, on the other hand it's interesting to discuss these things.

[Sister Fracas 5]

While on one hand I find it exhausting to be in this kind of thread, on the other hand it's interesting to discuss these things.

It's exhausting BECAUSE it's interesting...

have a nice weekend!

[CanGal 1]

There is choice to believe in Christ and follow him and you learn faith along the way. Do I always have faith? No way, there's lots of times I want to lean on my own understanding because my faith is weak. But God teaches me daily how to become stronger in my faith, how to trust him. It is a choice, you choose to believe it or you don't.

[chri'stina 190]

While on one hand I find it exhausting to be in this kind of thread, on the other hand it's interesting to discuss these things.

It's exhausting BECAUSE it's interesting...

have a nice weekend!

you too, and everyone !

(who knows, I might end up popping in again later or tomorrow, oh the insanity!! )

[anya-D 8]

oh well.. i' must go to hell then

sorry.. but i dont believe i'll go to hell coz in my believe associate with my relegion.. everybody (and i mean everybody) who is good, live good, have good heart, just simply a good person.. will somehow have a time in heaven. And who is bad or have done bad thing - kill, lie, corrupted or just simply bad.. will have sometime to spend in hell. Because if you are not perfectly good then ofcourse you wil have to face youe Kharma (the result of your action) (then that's hell.. during life, the bad feeling within yourself, or jail.. or ect... or after death)

I know i have my Kharma and i'll have to face it soon or later but if i keep doing good things then the good Kharma will give me good effect more than the bad Kharma.. And that's the way my Buddhism is. Eventhough you are buddhist, christain or any relegion, but you create sinfull act, then you create bad Kharma and that leads you hell

ps.. hell comes in many form.. hell in your heart (all the feeling that can break you etc..) hell in this world.. (met bad people, experiences bad day, jail, a scary death etc....) and hell ofter death (i'm yet to know what it'll be like)

But i'm i'm good.. try to live a moral life, live my life in a middle road (by my means - no greedy or sloppy) then i'll be happy = heaven for me.. people will love me = heaven for me.. and i'll be success = heaven for me.. so ofcourse.. i'll be in heaven

[ace13 0]

He gave all man free choice ...

Under that definintion, no He did not.

Take for example:

A jungle tribe in Africa that has had little or no contact with the outside world and does not know what Christianity even is.........what about them? Are they doomed for hell over something they do not even have a concept of? Does that sound Christian to you?

My God would not abandon them.

If you don't know, you don't know and I can't believe they would go to hell either. I think ignorance counts for something. You could use the same for babies that die. On the other hand, if you are shown the Light and the Way and you choose not to follow, that is not ignorance-that is to defy.

What if nobody is truly qualified to show you the Light and the Way? Can you claim ignorance? I personally believe God's words are His......who else is qualified to speak for him? Can you really be shown the Light and the Way without God Himself?

The case could be made that we are ALL ignorant in his ways.

Yes, Merc. That is what I keep trying to get at, and no one understand what I'm asking or they don't know how to answer me.

From what you have said, you have chosen not to believe. Ok. That was your choice. My faith believes all will stand before the judgment seat of Christ one day and we will be judged for what we have done, both the good and the bad. (2 Corinthians 5:10) If you don't believe that, fine. Hope there really isn't a God but I would be really scared if I was you.

That is completely non-sensical! How can you CHOOSE to have faith or not??!?!?!?!?

Free will.

Huh? What you're talking about is SAYING that you believe in something. Sure, I could choose to SAY I believe.

How can your free will control what's really deep down in your heart?

Here's an interesting paper that addresses my questions: http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/EPS/PES-Yearbook/94_docs/GREEN.HTM

You are in control of your heart.

[CanGal 1]

How can your free will control what's really deep down in your heart?

Lets say we don't (though I believe we do) who do you think controls our hearts? just a question ...

[mercuryroad 0]

oh well.. i' must go to hell then

sorry.. but i dont believe i'll go to hell coz in my believe associate with my relegion.. everybody (and i mean everybody) who is good, live good, have good heart, just simply a good person.. will somehow have a time in heaven. And who is bad or have done bad thing - kill, lie, corrupted or just simply bad.. will have sometime to spend in hell. Because if you are not perfectly good then ofcourse you wil have to face youe Kharma (the result of your action) (then that's hell.. during life, the bad feeling within yourself, or jail.. or ect... or after death)

I know i have my Kharma and i'll have to face it soon or later but if i keep doing good things then the good Kharma will give me good effect more than the bad Kharma.. And that's the way my Buddhism is. Eventhough you are buddhist, christain or any relegion, but you create sinfull act, then you create bad Kharma and that leads you hell

ps.. hell comes in many form.. hell in your heart (all the feeling that can break you etc..) hell in this world.. (met bad people, experiences bad day, jail, a scary death etc....) and hell ofter death (i'm yet to know what it'll be like)

But i'm i'm good.. try to live a moral life, live my life in a middle road (by my means - no greedy or sloppy) then i'll be happy = heaven for me.. people will love me = heaven for me.. and i'll be success = heaven for me.. so ofcourse.. i'll be in heaven

Good post......I happen to believe in kharma as well.....I see it everyday.

I just put in context of my own Christianity and incorporate it into my daily life.

[Jenn! 918]

How can your free will control what's really deep down in your heart?

Lets say we don't (though I believe we do) who do you think controls our hearts? just a question ...

That I don't know. Chemicals in our body, God.... I haven't figured that one out, and probably never will.

What I do know is that I have just about as much control over what's deep down in my heart as I do over what's deep down in yours.....

[mercuryroad 0]

How can your free will control what's really deep down in your heart?

Lets say we don't (though I believe we do) who do you think controls our hearts? just a question ...

That I don't know. Chemicals in our body, God.... I haven't figured that one out, and probably never will.

What I do know is that I have just about as much control over what's deep down in my heart as I do over what's deep down in yours.....

You have to admit that is a good point. Nobody would feel heartache if they could control their heart....who would want to go through that pain?

[CanGal 1]

That I don't know. Chemicals in our body, God.... I haven't figured that one out, and probably never will.

What I do know is that I have just about as much control over what's deep down in my heart as I do over what's deep down in yours.....

Thats an honest answer ... I was just curious

Our own actions and attitudes are what our heart reveals, it shows the state of our hearts. There's a saying that says be careful what you think about because it becomes your words, and soon words become actions , actions becoming your character, and character becomes your destiny.

Edited June 9, 2006 by CanGal

[Sister Fracas 5]

something just came to me a few posts back...

what if we're all right?

what if there are several dozens of after lifes? There's the Christian heaven, and the Jewish heaven, and the Islamic paradise, and the Pagan otherworld of many different names, and reincarnation, and and and...? What if when and atheist dies, they just get put in a box in the ground and rot?

what if after we die we just go to whereever it is that in life we believed we would go?

what if all this arguing and debating and typing is just a waste of time and words and it all just doesn't really matter?

what if all of our gods and goddesses are sitting in the break room watching us and snorting their tea out their noses and choking on their cakes because its all just so rediculous and they've been trying to tell us that for milennia but no one will listen?

Before I forgot, I just wanted to say I really liked this post.... and I like the way your meandering brain works...

[mercuryroad 0]

something just came to me a few posts back...

what if we're all right?

what if there are several dozens of after lifes? There's the Christian heaven, and the Jewish heaven, and the Islamic paradise, and the Pagan otherworld of many different names, and reincarnation, and and and...? What if when and atheist dies, they just get put in a box in the ground and rot?

what if after we die we just go to whereever it is that in life we believed we would go?

what if all this arguing and debating and typing is just a waste of time and words and it all just doesn't really matter?

what if all of our gods and goddesses are sitting in the break room watching us and snorting their tea out their noses and choking on their cakes because its all just so rediculous and they've been trying to tell us that for milennia but no one will listen?

Before I forgot, I just wanted to say I really liked this post.... and I like the way your meandering brain works...

I enjoyed it as well......a little reminder that we think we know more than perhaps we do.

I think "right" is in our hearts....a feeling...and we are given many different outlets to pursue that.

[Ban Hammer 13,484]

wow this is still going.