25,000 Evangelical Christian Youth rally against promiscuity and corporate culture

[tenika 0]

How do you know if you've explained it well?

you are in a conversation.. I ask the person did they understand? Do u have any questions? etc.. If they say no they dont have any and they understand I give them my number or the church number and invite them to church if they have qustions they call or come out, if they descide they dont want to hear anymore and throw the paper out the do.. it their business

[Jenn! 918]

How do you know if you've explained it well?

you are in a conversation.. I ask the person did they understand? Do u have any questions? etc.. If they say no they dont have any and they understand I give them my number or the church number and invite them to church if they have qustions they call or come out, if they descide they dont want to hear anymore and throw the paper out the do.. it their business

If your goal is to explain something to someone in order that they believe it, then the burden is on you to explain it in such a way that not believing would be out of the question, no?

Edited June 8, 2006 by jenn3539

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Oh ok...so if any Christian explains what they believe to you fully and coherently...then, you're gonna believe it FOR SURE? Don't be deliberately obtuse please. M.

that's comparable to saying if I get in an accident my driving instructor didn't teach me properly...sheesh.

Edited June 8, 2006 by MichelleandCraig

[Jenn! 918]

Oh ok...so if any Christian explains what they believe to you fully and coherently...then, you're gonna believe it FOR SURE? Don't be deliberately obtuse please. M.

Read between the lines.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

state yourself more clearly.

[Jenn! 918]

My point is that it seems that Christians who believe that it is their duty to convert others have set themselves up for an impossible task. I don't believe. Have people tried to convert me? Yes. Does that mean I have rejected God's word? No. I have rejected YOUR words.

I need some OTHER way to convince me. But there doesn't seem to be any other way then just explaining and quoting the bible. Seems like a catch 22 in a way to me.

Edited June 8, 2006 by jenn3539

[Mirorgate 0]

Christians must live right anyway, that is another witness, but I can give u so many scriptures that every Christian must be a witness. You cant only live right you have to speak the word, thats why the bible says "..how can they hear with out a preacher" thats why the bible says be willing to " give any man an answer explaining the hope that is in you" that s why the word says, in the book of Acts chapter 2, after the down pouring of the Spirit of God which empowers every believer. the apostles, (bishops, bigtime leaders) remained in Jerusalem and the who went out.. the body ...that is the beleivers went out to preach. The fact that so many is leaving it on the pastors explains why the church is not growin the way it should

bolding by me. Yes give them an answer... to a question that was asked. as in:

Q: Why do you live the way you do?

A: I live this way because .... explanation goes here..

is that so hard to realise? think of it this way... you believe something fundamental to your life, always have. then suddenly someone on the street starts preaching AT you (notice not "to" you, or "with" you, but AT you) that your fundamental belief is wrong, and therefore you will be XYZ. what happens.. do you shout for joy and thank him for showing you "the way, the light"? or do you get your back up and walk away?

"you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

And please.. even Christians can't believe the same thing. Else why do we have Methodists, Catholics, Baptists, 1st Baptists, Evangelical etc? Because everyone interprets it differently.. and they are all "right". Hyprocritical is what it is. Since man first breathed... it has always been about the power over another. A lack of faith in what is given, or purposefully distorted to suit their own ends.

stones and glass houses.

If you have credit card debt.. why should i listen to you about my spending habits?

If you are abusive to your spouse, why should I listen to you about respecting others in love and compassion?

Only 1 person I believe was perfect. Others choose differently. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong... but one thing I do believe is that when the time comes either I or the other will be given the chance to learn the truth. By my actions I speak, and if they come and ask openly I will explain then. And if it turns out that there is nothing at all at the time of my death? Then I have lost nothing believing as I do since in the end there is nothing anyway.

[LaL 418]

My point is that it seems that Christians who believe that it is their duty to convert others have set themselves up for an impossible task. I don't believe. Have people tried to convert me? Yes. Does that mean I have rejected God's word? No. I have rejected YOUR words.

I need some OTHER way to convince me. But there doesn't seem to be any other way then just explaining and quoting the bible. Seems like a catch 22 in a way to me.

i guess then the other element would be you need to have FAITH in order to believe, not just listening to a lecture.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

It has always been the belief of my parent's church(which I believe most of, but do NOT currently practice for many reasons that I won't go into here) that IF someone asks or seems interested, to let them know what you think. If and when they are no longer interested, to let it drop; they have then had an 'opportunity' to be told about it, and it is then their own responsibility to be futher educated on it or not. This is also what I think. I also agree with Christina that no one here is shoving his/her beliefs down anyone's throats....they are simply stating their views, as are most people here. You can chose to believe it or not; you don't. No skin off my nose! M.

PS...the ONLY issue I have with this entire thread, is that people can't seem to ever just live and let live...why should *anyone* have to be ridiculed for what they think/believe? I've seen that happening to the Christians in this thread; I haven't seen the Christians(at least not on the last many pages...I don't even remember the first several pages of the thread) being blatantly insulting to YOUR beliefs, or lack thereof. It's total ignorance to have to act that way, no matter WHAT the subject, be it religion or anything else. M.

[tenika 0]

If your goal is to explain something to someone in order that they believe it, then the burden is on you to explain it in such a way that not believing would be out of the question, no?

no purpose at that time is to share my faith with who will hear it not to debate thousands of years of Christian history. if someone really wants to know and they are open to knowing, not just some who will have you speaking and speaking till you blue in the face and really dont really care what you have to say. but if someone is open meaning you can have a decent conversation and they are open to what I am saying I spend time talking to them, what they want to know and I dont have any time left to speak on we exchange information to followup

[Jenn! 918]

My point is that it seems that Christians who believe that it is their duty to convert others have set themselves up for an impossible task. I don't believe. Have people tried to convert me? Yes. Does that mean I have rejected God's word? No. I have rejected YOUR words.

I need some OTHER way to convince me. But there doesn't seem to be any other way then just explaining and quoting the bible. Seems like a catch 22 in a way to me.

i guess then the other element would be you need to have FAITH in order to believe, not just listening to a lecture.

Right, that's exactly my point. I really can't understand how some Christians think that spreading the word of God in the way that they do could possibly give me faith.

And why would you want to learn BEFORE you had some belief???

Edited June 8, 2006 by jenn3539

[LaL 418]

If your goal is to explain something to someone in order that they believe it, then the burden is on you to explain it in such a way that not believing would be out of the question, no?

I believe this would only be the case should it be a DEBATE, not explaining a belief system. of course in the case of this specific thread - we ARE debating

(not picking on you Jenn - just an observation!)

[Jenn! 918]

If your goal is to explain something to someone in order that they believe it, then the burden is on you to explain it in such a way that not believing would be out of the question, no?

I believe this would only be the case should it be a DEBATE, not explaining a belief system.

I don't really get the difference actually.

[tenika 0]

I find that many on this thread who are blasting saying Christians are too judgemental and intolerant seem to be the intolerant ones.

Let me just state where I am and who I am

I am a conservative Christian, I love Jesus, I love people, I love them so much I want to share what I know , Do I SHOVE anything down your throat NO. I am a witness of the Gospel , I witness on the streets of NYC and around the world, and will continue to do so, long as the Lord l

Questions, those of you who calling Christians offering a Gospel tract and asking for a moment of your time, do you also call the sales person on the street who offers a brochure and ask for a moment of your time, or the credit card sales men who solicits your time and attempts to hand you a form.. pushing it down your throat?

[mercuryroad 0]

mercury,

I don't disagree that some Christians make a bad name for christianity...but I also do not believe you are balanced in your approach. You are also being pretty judgemental towards Christians that you don't even know on here.

So as another Christian, I personally believe there needs to be a balance between what your ideas are and those ppl who shove things down someone's throats...both ideas are off balance, in my opinion, according to what I have read in the bible.

I do not think I am perfect at all, and who knows what ppl will write back to this. I just think your idea is not very balanced, and I also don't think ppl who shove things down ppl's throats(forcing) are balanced either. Those are my opinions based on my beliefs.

I see you edited this post. I didn't have a chance to reply as I was leaving work.

I don't hate any of the Christians on here......but I definately hate and get irritated at actions and things that are said. I also hate people trashing the reputation of my religion by preaching without authority and forcing their own self rightousness onto others in the name of the Lord. They hide behind the Bible as if believing it gives them supreme authority to judge all others. You may believe in the Bible and it's teachings but that does not make you right or a decent human being. It also does not make you educated, compassionate, forgiving or loving......and certainly not all knowing. You don't automatically get all of these traits by saying you believe in the text in a book.

Am I judging these so called Christians.....possibly, but I will go after anyone that is defacing my religion before my very eyes. I judge their actions and their affects on Christianity. There are far too many of us Chritians who have sat back and allowed this to happen. I think the time has come for us to take back our religion from the arrogant. These people don't believe in God.....they only believe in themselves and their own self rightousness.

Unless you are a priest, bishop, pastor, etc......then stop preaching because you do not have the qualification or authority to do so. Leave the preaching to Jesus and stop thinking you are Him.

As for the porno names.....what can I say? If you feel that me making those types of jokes is an embarassment to my faith then that's your business. I certainly don't feel I have betrayed my faith in any way or means by making harmless jokes. I also know that I am not perfect, but I also don't claim I am because of what I believe. I don't preach my beliefs in the name of the Lord.....instead I follow His....which is what we are truly meant to do as Christians. My personal feelings on issues are just that....my personal feelings and I leave God out of it. I may have taken some of my stances in life based on what God has taught me, but the decision was MINE to follow those teachings. I therefore act with these teachings in mind and take personal responsibility for them....right or wrong.....and I don't blame my God or speak for Him.....because those are personal decisions.

The teacher never taught me to be self rightous, spread hatred, or be arrogant in His name. The people that do that made their own decisions and refuse to take responsibility for the consequences because they hide under the blanket of the Bible and blame the teacher for their sins. This is the Christian Crisis of today.....and fellow Christians should put an end to it.

I do understand a lot of what you are saying but I just don't personally agree with it. Especially this part:

"My personal feelings on issues are just that....my personal feelings and I leave God out of it. "

My personal feelings have been shaped with how I think God would think about things, or atleast that is why I try to do (and I am sure I fail many times!). That is why I do have a problem with the porno name thing...because I do not believe Jesus would think it's funny and I am trying to be more like him everyday, and so I feel like I shouldn't do that kind of thing. Jesus' words are supposed to affect every area of the way we live our lives. So to me it's not harmless to purposely do things He asked us not to do. Failing, stumbling, that's a different story. I mean habitually doing things He said not to do. So if you said, yes I know I shoudn't but I am still doing it...I'd accept that answer. But to say, it's because it seems harmless, is not an answer to me.

I agree Christians need to stand against the ideas of very judgemental Christians who are hateful. But I also believe Christians need to encourage eachother to follow the instructions on living in the bible, and for every extremist fire and brimstone preacher, is also someone who is so compromised in their faith that they haven't let Jesus affect the areas of their life and their way of living much at all. That is also so sad to me.

I am not judgemental to ppl around me, and I think you would see that if we all were together in real life. But I also do not want my life to be compromised with certain things and do try to live they way Jesus wants us to as much as possible. I won't compromise, and I also won't shove anything down ppl's throats. But I know who I serve and want to honor Him in life with my words and actions alike. It's not that I don't want to do certain things because 'He just said so', it's because I love Him a lot and want to honor Him, and not care about what anyone around me thinks or does, but what He wants me to do needs to be most important. I want Christians who are rude to change, yes, but I also want Christians to live up to the potentials they have and really try to do what Jesus asks of us in living a holy life(while falling along the way, yes, we are human).

Sorry about the editing but I felt I crossed into unecessary territory, and no one had commented back to it yet so I decided to get rid of that part after thinking. But still I do appreciate you taking the time to talk about that part.

I appreciate your viewpoint and if you feel like I'm being hypocritical or anything like that then certainly point it out because that is not my goal at all. We all need some checks and balances. Let me explain this comment a little better.

"My personal feelings on issues are just that....my personal feelings and I leave God out of it. "

My feelings on issues are formed from a variety of sources, including the Bible and the teachings of the Christian faith. I choose to go down that path and I make personal choices about what I believe (going beyond religion here). The Bible taught it, but I chose to believe it, so it becomes my personal feeling on the issue. This is true of many things in life.....many of which I learned from my mother. All of this information from so many different sources and life experiences becomes your view of the world. There is no way this view could be identical to that of Jesus in his time. It's what makes us unique and He knew that. The words we are given are for our guidance. To take those words and personalize them to your own experience and then act as if it is still one and the same is wrong and arrogant in my book, thus my feeling that you do not have the authority to preach in His name.

The words were meant to guide YOU, not be used as self rightous amunition against others. That is a message from God to all of us and it is heresy to me that some people want to take a little information and pretend they can deliver the message to everyone instead of letting God do it. All they are doing is spouting off their corrupted view of the word that gets tainted from their own life experiences and ego. God's words are pure but Christians using them to attack others infect His words with persecution. That's heresy.

So when I say I leave God out of it, I mean just that. I took his teachings and folded into my own life story and how I live. I leave his words as pure and do not attempt to muddy them with my own bias and imperfect life.

"also want Christians to live up to the potentials they have and really try to do what Jesus asks of us in living a holy life(while falling along the way, yes, we are human). "

I totally agree with you......the problem is that our mission gets destroyed by these so called Christians that pretend to have the voice of God. Other people hear that voice and then do not want to hear anything else because the corruption, self rightousness, arrogance and hatred are very apparent. These people are effectiving stealing our religion from right beneath our noses. You see that backlash everyday towards Christians......and it is because we have brought it upon ourselves by not acting against those that have stolen the voice. Our silence has given them the voice of Christianity. Christians who feel they are persecuted in this country do not want to face the ugly truth that much of it is our own fault.

This problem is correctable in my opinion.

BTW - I consider the porno names a preference of taste and not a religious issue at all. There is room for humor in life and religion.

Edited June 8, 2006 by mercuryroad