25,000 Evangelical Christian Youth rally against promiscuity and corporate culture

[chri'stina 190]

You are called to Evangilize (Matthew 28:18-20).

You are also called to not eat pork, to kill your child - by stoning, with the entire village involved - if he offends you, and to sell your daughter as a prostitute.

Why obey some rules and ignore others?

because some laws were just for the tribes of Israel, and not other nations, also some were for entire planet. Not to mention it is written in the Bible that Jesus came as the fulfilment of the laws (as in those are now paid for) and here now is what you get to keep, as in you no longer need to stone your children (as you mentioned). You are repeating that joke thats floating around the internet.. that is old and only looks at one side.

You have made your decision, and that is fine. she and others have made theirs, that is fine. Her way of evangelizing is different than what i think it should be, and that is fine. you dont have to listen, you dont have to believe, you dont have to read... but please, you do not really need to belittle someone and mock them for their faith.

...being able to disagree and debate without mocking is the best way to go. Not everyone is going to agree with any of us.

Edited June 7, 2006 by stina&suj

[PlatyPius 5]

You are called to Evangilize (Matthew 28:18-20).

You are also called to not eat pork, to kill your child - by stoning, with the entire village involved - if he offends you, and to sell your daughter as a prostitute.

Why obey some rules and ignore others?

because some laws were just for the tribes of Israel, and not other nations, also some were for entire planet. Not to mention it is written in the Bible that Jesus came as the fulfilment of the laws (as in those are now paid for) and here now is what you get to keep, as in you no longer need to stone your children (as you mentioned). You are repeating that joke thats floating around the internet.. that is old and only looks at one side.

You have made your decision, and that is fine. she and others have made theirs, that is fine. Her way of evangelizing is different than what i think it should be, and that is fine. you dont have to listen, you dont have to believe, you dont have to read... but please, you do not really need to belittle someone and mock them for their faith.

What joke that's floating around the internet?

And who's "belittling and mocking" someone for their faith? I was asking questions.

If part of someone's faith was to walk up to people and smack them in the face with a sea bass, would that offend anyone? Would you think it was just part of their faith, and therefore perfectly acceptable? I consider being "preached to" the equivalent of being smacked in the face with a sea bass.

Anyway, back to the original conversation...

Did anyone read the quotes I posted from the battlecry.com website? I think SF had it right.....they ARE facists. They aren't announcing their own decisions to ignore these things, they are protesting to gain more converts and to force everyone in the country (through new laws and such) to live how THEY think you should live. Everything to them is a "battle" a "fight" against "enemies". They are promoting religious war. Yay. A rebirth of the Inquisition, or maybe the Crusades.

[PsychoKat 0]

Anyone can setup their own version of a Christian church......that's part of the problem.

You are called to Evangilize (Matthew 28:18-20).

ace13: It might say you were called to Evangilize there.

BUT

Matthew 10:5-6

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

It says something a little different here, that you are only to do so to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Mercuryroad: This is very true, people have a tendancy to pick and choose which parts of the bible they choose to follow, which in some ways is understandable, because if you followed it to the word you would be sitting there in utter confusion.

One of the 10 commandments, the commandments that are THE most important to adhere to says: "Thou shalt not kill"

Yet if you read through you wil also find:

Exodus 32:27

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side ... and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

Ahh to kill or not to kill that is the question, is it one of the ultimate sins, or does it come with a disclaimer.

[CanGal 1]

Everything to them is a "battle" a "fight" against "enemies". They are promoting religious war. Yay. A rebirth of the Inquisition, or maybe the Crusades.

In an essence, everything a true christian believes is a battle. I'm not saying you have to believe that. But as for "myself" (notice key word "myself") I believe that the human race has been in a spiritual "Battle" since the beginning of time. The war is between God and Satan and we all got caught in the middle. We all , unbelievers and believers, are precious in Gods site. Satan wants to get back at him so why not use the most precious thing of all, have his own creation (humans) turn against him. Thats what the spriritual war is all about. As christians we believe that our struggles are not against human flesh, or blood, etc but against principalities of the other world.

Also, the only reason we us bible quotations is so we have a source to back up what we are saying. If we just talked and talked and didn't have sources, how credible would that make us? I don't know about anyone else, but "I" only do it so I have something to back up what I'm saying.

As for people stating that we as christians continually bash others and tell them they are going to hell. I am sad to say but that is the case many times and maybe some just go about it wrong. I , as a christian, cannot make that judgement. That is between God and the individual. But I do know that my bible tells me that Jesus is the only way. We don't make the rules up everyone. I just want people to realize that. I am hoping on the most part it isn't used to scare somenoe into faith. I know the Lord wouldn't want it to be used to scare anyone into the faith. My bible does tell me though in Matt.7:13,14 - You can enter God's kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose the easy way. But the gateway to life is small, and the road is narrow, and only a "few" ever find it.

I don't want to be seen as shoving my beliefs down anyones throat. I am just sharing, that is all. If you don't believe, then you don't believe. That is your right and you have the right to that choice. All I want to do is share. Everyone always says keep and open mind, why can't people be a little more open minded about christianity then? Even if you choose not to believe it. Don't let a group of people who seem to give it a bad name make your decision for you, that just means your not making it on your own. I think all decisions need to be studied, looked into. Even if you choose not too , fine, thats your perogative. I just wish everyone would just be a little nicer about all of this. Lets be civil and try not to put anyone down.

I hope I don't come across as having a self rightoues attitude. But then again when people in their lives tend to want to better themselves there is always gonna be someone who thinks they are being self rightoues and that doesn't just happen with religions. That happens when a friend decides she wants to lose the 80lbs and all of a sudden people get weird, they try to sabatoge. That happens when the drug addict decides they want to get sober and check into rehab. That happens when a 40 yr old working dead end job decides they want to go back to school.

Just my thoughts

PsychoKat .... you also have to study the bible. There is a difference between just reading it , and studying it and really understanding what it means. You have to take in the context of the time it was written, the even in which it was written, the culture it was written in and the only way you can interpret scripture is by backing it up with other scripture.... yes i do agree, there are alot of people who take out certain aspects of the bible and tend to forget or ignore others, but in essence isn't that what this is too by secluding one scripture verse? Like I said, there is always need for study and that the only way scripture can really be interpreted is to back it up with other scripture... am I grand at this? by no means so please don't flame me. I have to say as long as I've been a christian, I truly believe within the past year or so God has opened my mind and helped me to see things in the readings that I might not have picked up on before. Can I explain it, no, it's just something personal thats happened to me and I'm sure other people can say the same but I can't say for you cuz well I'm not you. I use to think the way your stating above as well but thats just not the case and I can see that now.

[Chuckles 0]

You are called to Evangilize (Matthew 28:18-20).

You are also called to not eat pork, to kill your child - by stoning, with the entire village involved - if he offends you, and to sell your daughter as a prostitute.

Why obey some rules and ignore others?

because some laws were just for the tribes of Israel, and not other nations, also some were for entire planet. Not to mention it is written in the Bible that Jesus came as the fulfilment of the laws (as in those are now paid for) and here now is what you get to keep, as in you no longer need to stone your children (as you mentioned). You are repeating that joke thats floating around the internet.. that is old and only looks at one side.

You have made your decision, and that is fine. she and others have made theirs, that is fine. Her way of evangelizing is different than what i think it should be, and that is fine. you dont have to listen, you dont have to believe, you dont have to read... but please, you do not really need to belittle someone and mock them for their faith.

What joke that's floating around the internet?

And who's "belittling and mocking" someone for their faith? I was asking questions.

If part of someone's faith was to walk up to people and smack them in the face with a sea bass, would that offend anyone? Would you think it was just part of their faith, and therefore perfectly acceptable? I consider being "preached to" the equivalent of being smacked in the face with a sea bass.

Anyway, back to the original conversation...

Did anyone read the quotes I posted from the battlecry.com website? I think SF had it right.....they ARE facists. They aren't announcing their own decisions to ignore these things, they are protesting to gain more converts and to force everyone in the country (through new laws and such) to live how THEY think you should live. Everything to them is a "battle" a "fight" against "enemies". They are promoting religious war. Yay. A rebirth of the Inquisition, or maybe the Crusades.

Can some Christians answer these questsion for me as well?

How could God simply turn His head and appear to not know that some of His servants, like Jacob and Samson, consorted with prostitutes? God never hesitated to punish or at least to rebuke the evil behavior of His servants. Why not once does he indicate that He is even slightly concerned about prostitution? Why is there no Biblical law against prostitution per se? Why didn't Solomon punish the two prostitutes who fought over one baby?

God good to all, or just a few?

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Can't a man even look at a beautiful woman and be aware that she is sexually desirable without committing "adultery in his heart?" If not, is sexual attraction not a legitimate part of the dating/mating process?

Must we "let every man be convinced in his own mind" (Rom. 14:5) in aspects of sexuality where God has not legislated? And must we also "not judge one another any more" in those areas (Rom. 14:13)? Must we not also allow each person to "have their own conviction before God" and live by the rule that "happy is the man who does not condemn himself in what he approves," (Rom. 14:22)?

What does this mean? Who is the 'father' of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Do snails melt?

PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

What did Judas do?

Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

Matt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?

Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."

Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

Jesus' last words?

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

God be seen?

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9

God CAN be seen:

"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)

"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)

"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:

"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)

"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)

If certain areas of the Bible do not make sense, because of human transcript, can you trust ALL other parts of the Bible to be other then human writiings? Would not God or Jesus in heaven make sure the most important 'guidebook' if you will, not have any errors and be 100% accurate? Does that mean God or Jesus did not oversee the creation of the Bible?

[Jenn! 918]

Also, the only reason we us bible quotations is so we have a source to back up what we are saying. If we just talked and talked and didn't have sources, how credible would that make us? I don't know about anyone else, but "I" only do it so I have something to back up what I'm saying.

You must realize though that for a non-believer, the bible is not a credible source, so it does absolutely nothing to support your arguments.

[Chuckles 0]

Also, the only reason we us bible quotations is so we have a source to back up what we are saying. If we just talked and talked and didn't have sources, how credible would that make us? I don't know about anyone else, but "I" only do it so I have something to back up what I'm saying.

You must realize though that for a non-believer, the bible is not a credible source, so it does absolutely nothing to support your arguments.

I try my best to use bible quotations to back up my points as well.

[CanGal 1]

if you believe it is a credible source or not, it is my credible source and that is what I use to back up my argument ... thats all i'm saying why I do it

[chri'stina 190]

Also, the only reason we us bible quotations is so we have a source to back up what we are saying. If we just talked and talked and didn't have sources, how credible would that make us? I don't know about anyone else, but "I" only do it so I have something to back up what I'm saying.

You must realize though that for a non-believer, the bible is not a credible source, so it does absolutely nothing to support your arguments.

But it does show why Christians believe how they do, and that is their belief system.

Chuckles, Christianity is based on faith and believing in the bible and it's story. You don't have to believe in it or agree with it. To me, it's kind of pointless to try to answer all your questions. If you are that curious you can read through the whole bible to find all your answers. But maybe it's because you are not curious, you are just trying to make Christians look like they are believing something dumb.

I am so over this thread....

[CanGal 1]

do i understand the bible fully at times? no i don't, i can honestly say that, there have been many times where i've had to read something over and over before i finally get it. Do i always get it? No, not at all. But I'm human. And I do believe all the answers I need are in that book. There have been many people who have done many studies on the bibles credibility. People, and theologists and such from all kinds of faiths. Many have converted because once they really sat down and studied it for themselves, they came to find thta it wasn't as contradicting after all.

As for why does God say he shows love and mercy on us all and later it states he's going to destroy them. Because he has done so much for us. Isn't it sad sometimes the lengths he has to go to to get someones attention?? As horrible as it seems, sometimes I think he needs to turn our worlds upside down sometimes before we even notice him .... I believe in essence he essentially does it out of love. I remember talking to a women who moved here from New Orleans. She now attends our church. She stated that after that horrific storm and losing everything and some of her family members, that for the first time she realized God was really just trying to get her attention and that she was so blind to all his attempts before that he had to take drastic measures even if that meant he had to lose some of his own. I don't have all the answers. I really don't. I can't say I ever will. I am still learning myself. All I know is that God is not a man who sits in heaven with a hammer ready to boink all those on the head for the horrible things they have done. He just wants you all to know he loves you, wants to save you. Thats all there really is too it. But thats just what "I" believe

[rclouse 0]

If certain areas of the Bible do not make sense, because of human transcript, can you trust ALL other parts of the Bible to be other then human writiings? Would not God or Jesus in heaven make sure the most important 'guidebook' if you will, not have any errors and be 100% accurate? Does that mean God or Jesus did not oversee the creation of the Bible?

This is why I say to take the moral lessons of holy books like the Bible to heart, rather than cherry-picking a particular phrase or passage to support whatever point you want to make. It's the overall message that we should pay attention to, and I feel fundamentalists do the latter rather than the former. IMHO.

I am so over this thread.... wacko.gif

Oh, come on, this is the thread that keeps giving! I'm sure incanada will pop in any moment to say something spiteful, hateful, ignorant, intolerant, or antagonistic.

[chri'stina 190]

I am so over this thread.... wacko.gif

Oh, come on, this is the thread that keeps giving! I'm sure incanada will pop in any moment to say something spiteful, hateful, ignorant, intolerant, or antagonistic.

yeah I know this thread is still alive and well, but I just don't feel like writing on it anymore...it's driving me kinda bonkers.

Edited June 7, 2006 by stina&suj

[*Robert* 2]

Also, the only reason we us bible quotations is so we have a source to back up what we are saying. If we just talked and talked and didn't have sources, how credible would that make us? I don't know about anyone else, but "I" only do it so I have something to back up what I'm saying.

You must realize though that for a non-believer, the bible is not a credible source, so it does absolutely nothing to support your arguments.

You beat me to that one!!!

How anyone can base their beliefs on a book of unkown authors, that has been translated from translations without verification, and which constantly contradicts itself is amazing.

I would be more impressed with people using more acurate and believable sources as references.

[chri'stina 190]

Also, the only reason we us bible quotations is so we have a source to back up what we are saying. If we just talked and talked and didn't have sources, how credible would that make us? I don't know about anyone else, but "I" only do it so I have something to back up what I'm saying.

You must realize though that for a non-believer, the bible is not a credible source, so it does absolutely nothing to support your arguments.

You beat me to that one!!!

How anyone can base their beliefs on a book of unkown authors, that has been translated from translations without verification, and which constantly contradicts itself is amazing.

I would be more impressed with people using more acurate and believable sources as references.

yeah..I guess they're just brainwashed morons...what a shame....ppl actually believing in stuff! pfff!! Better go tell all the other religion followers how you feel about them too.

(not really)

[Chuckles 0]

I am extremly curious about these things. I do study them and pay attention. So far I have only come to the conclusion that the Bible (along with other religous texts of that era) were written by man. I cannot see evidence there hands were 'moved by God' or any divine intervention. I can't believe some of it, I have to believe all of it. Although I believe in Jesus as a wise prophet, perhaps with some of the divine in him, I can't be a true Christian because of what I read.

I understand religion is a 'faith' and is based on superstition. It has helped so many people through very hard times to persevere. It is not a bad thing at all. But at the end of the day, why do we deny some truths, and forcefully proclaim others?

I am just not sure, thats all.