25,000 Evangelical Christian Youth rally against promiscuity and corporate culture

[PsychoKat 0]

And as for the one who said that we Christians can't say that we're not persecuted...please look again. Some of what happens to us doesn't get the media attention that others who complain do. My own daughterm, as I stated before, got in trouble because she asked, "When is Easter break?" She also wore a t-shirt to school one day that had a Bible verse on it, and I was called at work to bring her different clothes. Yet another child can wear a necklace with the star of David, and still yet others can wear their head scarves (excuse my ignorance for not knowing the proper term)? And my oldest daughter bowed her head, and silently prayed, and lost a recess because of this. This may not seem like persecution to an adult, but to an 8 year old, it clearly is!

The thing is it's not only Christians that are subjected to things like what you describe happened to your daughter. My daughters boyfriend incurred a 3 day suspension from school for drawing a pentacle on his notebook, he came under intense scrutiny in the aftermath of that daily to make sure he showed no sign that he was Wiccan, yet all around him kids were allowed to display symbols of their religion.

Eventually it got to a point where he gathered information on previous court cases involving this type of persecution, along with exerpts from the No Child Left Behind laws that also state that freedom of religion while preventing the school from endorsing or encouraging one religion over another, does not take the students right to profess their own beliefs away.

Persecution does not just come in those forms though, when the government tries to impose laws that are founded in religious beliefs, that is persecution of other religions, or lack there of.

This same sex marriage law is an example of that, some call it a morality issue, but its a biblical issue going back to sodom and gomorrah and such. The view of this being a sin, and immoral is based in those teachings. But homosexuality has been proven to be an organic issue, not about a decision but the brains reaction to sex hormones. Studies have found the same type of reactions in homosexual males and females. The brain of a lesbian reacts to sex hormones, like that of a straight male. The brain of a homosexual male reacts to sex hormones like that of a heterosexual female. In this case the attempt to impose a law based on religious morals and beliefs, would be attempting in some ways to try to force one to physically change part of their body to conform to Christian values. I'd say that's pretty heavy persecution.

[Heracles 417]

Because of the loud mouthed, arrogant so called Christians, Christianity has become synonomous with judgement and the persecution of others in our society.

All of the backlash on Christians was ironically brought about by the open bashing and condemning of others by Christians themselves. I don't know what the fascination is with trying to demonstrate to everyone that you are right and I certainly don't understand the blood lust for wanting to convert everyone to our way of thinking.

That comment about not agreeing is ok because I'm going to heaven is arrogant and yet another example of how Christians are ruining their own faith with that arrogance.

Out of 1 billion Christians what percentage do you see parading on the streets ramming their views down peoples throats? In the US anyone can go and setup their own version of a Christian church and then act as if they represent the Christians of the world. It's like, not all Muslims are terrorists yet all modern terrorists are Muslims. Does this mean that every Muslim is evil, of course not..

What gets me though is how I could go on the street parade being gay, almost force everyone to accept it, and people wouldn’t have a problem with it. Yet if a Christian dares voice their opinion the words start flying, which is an obvious double standard. Hey, I don't agree with crazy people who have a delusional view of Christianity but why shouldn't they be aloud to speak??

Edited June 7, 2006 by haza

[Jenn! 918]

Hey, I don't agree with crazy people who have a delusional view of Christianity but why shouldn't they be aloud to speak??

No one said Christians aren't allowed to speak and share their beliefs. But I don't have to like it.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

it just takes something away from the non-believer somehow. I dunno how to explain it. It's the "I'm right, you're wrong" aspect of it. I think prayer does something for the person doing the praying (much the same way meditation can be positive for the meditator), so if they feel better...good for them.

I've bolded something Frances said above for only one reason: It reminded me of something brother Robert(who I agree with MUCH of the time, but NOT on this ) said yesterday. That's the only thing that bothers me in all of these debates too: the "I'm right, you're wrong" aspect of that...but that is SOOOOO not just from the Christian side of it. Did you see what Roi wrote yesterday? I won't bother to go back and find it, but something along the lines of..."the *reality IS, there IS nothing up there......PERIOD." To me, that sounds just a bit 'I'm right, you're wrong' Happens from both sides of the fence.

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't debate this topic..no harm done and all at the end of the day, but...the consitution gives the protesters the right to protest, some the right not to like it(as others have mentioned already) so that's a moot point there...and then as for the rest..all of us are very unlikely to change someone else's mind on how we view religion, so..??? M.

Edited June 7, 2006 by MichelleandCraig

[Heracles 417]

Hey, I don't agree with crazy people who have a delusional view of Christianity but why shouldn't they be aloud to speak??

No one said Christians aren't allowed to speak and share their beliefs. But I don't have to like it.

I agree with you.

Based on distorted beliefs of reality, too many people misunderstand their religion and are therefore tarnishing it. That is happening across numerous religions. It would be like a group of gay people threatening to harm non-gay people, therefore causing people in society to look negatively upon gay people. At the end of the day, people should have enough common sense to realize that the actions of a few do not represent an entire group.

Edited June 7, 2006 by haza

[Sister Fracas 5]

What gets me though is how I could go on the street parade being gay, almost force everyone to accept it, and people wouldn’t have a problem with it. Yet if a Christian dares voice their opinion the words start flying, which is an obvious double standard. Hey, I don't agree with crazy people who have a delusional view of Christianity but why shouldn't they be aloud to speak??

I don't get why we are comparing gays to christians. One is a sexual lifestyle, the other a faith. Apples and oranges to me. Gays have pride parades to show that they have nothing to be ashamed of. I don't think they are necessarily trying to convince you or me of anything.

For the record, the kids in this demonstration have enery right to demonstrate about whatever they want. And if you want to compare them to gays...I don't have to be convinced by them either...

[Reba 2]

ok, if you want to get back on topic, lets look a little further into BattleCry.org's agenda. Let's repost the article to refresh everyone's mind

Luce didn't flinch in the face of the counterprotest. The author, host of the "Acquire the Fire TV" cable television program and a President Bush appointee to a federal anti-drug-abuse commission, wants teens to find Bible-based solutions for the spread of sexually transmitted disease, teen pregnancy, drug abuse and suicide.

That's great if they can do it. STDs and teen pregnancy are a big problem in this country, as are drugs and teen suicide. If they can teach kids safely how to avoid these problems, all the power to them!

The villains, Luce said, range from the promiscuity and "sexualization" of young people on MTV and the popular online meeting hub MySpace.com to a corporate culture that spends millions trying to woo the under-21 crowd.

Villains? Really? Black hats 'n' all?

Battle Cry will try to bring them back to God through two days of religious rockers, speakers and the debut of what Luce called a Christian alternative to My Space.com.

Cool, sounds like fun, if you're into that.

"This is more than a spiritual war," Luce said. "It's a culture war."

This is where it gets scary and starts to sound like the terrorists that get bashed here day in and day out. Why why why why does it need to result in war? Why is it ok for this guy, this Christian organization, to declare a spiritual and cultural war on the evils in America, but its not ok for a Muslim group? How long before this group escalates to recruiting young people to "teach the evil of the world a lesson"? How long will it be before someone in this organization, or some disenfranchised youth decide to teach someone a lesson and go blow something up? I'm not saying that's what this organization is about, I'm not saying its gonna absolutely happen. But they've declared war against something. Doesn't sound very Christ like

This is what scares me. Fine, go have your concerts and rallies and wail at the evils of the world. But when war is declared, ya gotta expect that "the enemy" is going to have to defend themselves at some point.

[Sister Fracas 5]

it just takes something away from the non-believer somehow. I dunno how to explain it. It's the "I'm right, you're wrong" aspect of it. I think prayer does something for the person doing the praying (much the same way meditation can be positive for the meditator), so if they feel better...good for them.

I've bolded something Frances said above for only one reason: It reminded me of something brother Robert(who I agree with MUCH of the time, but NOT on this ) said yesterday. That's the only thing that bothers me in all of these debates too: the "I'm right, you're wrong" aspect of that...but that is SOOOOO not just from the Christian side of it. Did you see what Roi wrote yesterday? I won't bother to go back and find it, but something along the lines of..."the *reality IS, there IS nothing up there......PERIOD." To me, that sounds just a bit 'I'm right, you're wrong' Happens from both sides of the fence.

Yes, I get ya and I think it's about tone and if someone prefaces something with "in my opinion", "in my belief", "I think"....to me that is perhaps a better way of approaching something like this....especially in this very mixed crowd. I think ALL sides, and I say ALL because it's not a "believer" vs "non-believer" thang want to say their way is THE only way, but I guess it would be nice to see more of..."THEIR way is the only way FOR THEM"

In my opinion, I believe I should just shut up now.... I think.

Edited June 7, 2006 by Frances

[anya-D 8]

Buddhism existed 2549 years ago you know.. (just to back up the "morality existed before Jesus... " )

For the sake of debate only, The Old Testament was written even before that, which also had laid out morals, and which prophesied Jesus's coming, and since Jesus is God, and God was the same God of the old testament, that is much older than Buddhism.

Thanks for the info, i've done some research and you are relating the Old Testament or the Hebrew Scriptures with the New Testament with the same God. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament it said "the Old Testament was composed between the 5th century BC and the 2nd century BC" And I do agree that there's been God in people believe for longer than that.

For me.. it's not Christianity or Jesus though..

and for Buddhism from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism, "the Buddha of the present age who probably lived in the 5th century BCE is considered to be a person who discovers the true nature of reality through years of spiritual cultivation, investigation of the various religious practices of his time, and meditation" and " Any person who has become awakened from the "sleep of ignorance" by directly realizing the true nature of reality is called a Buddha. Śākyamuni(Buddha) is said to have been only the latest of many of these"

So by your term as same God.. then also Same kind of enlightment or the Buddha before the latest Buddha?if then.. it's still many years before the old testament. What i'm saying is that i'm just counting the latest "Teacher" of the religion... (I dont know what word to use.. starter of the religion?) Eventhough, from the site, the Old testament and Buddha start from around the same time..

Ps.. i've study christianity since i was 4 years old (i attended christian pre-school and elementary school) and also attend christian university.. attended churches, read the bible, sing in a chors, pray before meals, easter, christmas, have friends who are strict christian, live with chirstian... just to let you see that eventhough i'm not a christiain but i've been around it a lot. and beleive it or not.. I like the concept of "love" but there'er too many eager to convert me and just blankly told me i will go to hell if i'm not a christian - and that's not at all in the concept of "love" as i've found in the bible... and as much as i know they care about me.. that's just not right.. well.. I like to learn about different things.. so i'm very much open to any idea. if it makes me a better person..

edit to add smiles

What gets me though is how I could go on the street parade being gay, almost force everyone to accept it, and people wouldn’t have a problem with it. Yet if a Christian dares voice their opinion the words start flying, which is an obvious double standard. Hey, I don't agree with crazy people who have a delusional view of Christianity but why shouldn't they be aloud to speak??

what I feel the difference is

when Gay march, they said they are Gay, please acceept our right

when Chistian march, they said, If you dont let God be with you, you are doom (just the concept.. not really the actual words.. and that's how I feel)

so it gives different feeling.. really

Edited June 7, 2006 by anya-D

[incanada1234 0]

To the contrary, I dare the davinci code to make a movie ‘challenging’ Islam or for big bad Madonna to slander Islam the way she does Christianity.

Well we already know what happens when some cartoons are published, so imagine the outcry if it was a movie or a Madonna concert!

[*Robert* 2]

It is happening. Trust me. It may not be this extreme in the US, but this is no joke.

Christians are persecuted more today than they than at any time prior to the 20th century. They are also currently the most persecuted religious group in the world, and persecution has intensified during the past several years. Torture, enslavement, rape, imprisonment and killings are among the atrocities perpetrated upon believers around the world, many of them stemming from two sources: communism and politicized Islam.

Persecution is most severe in such countries as China, Sudan, Pakistan, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Egypt, Nigeria, Cuba, Laos and Uzbekistan

China, for example, has been designated for the fourth straight year as a “country of particular concern” by the United States Secretary of State under the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998. In its 2003 annual report, the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) characterizes the Chinese government as “a particularly severe violator of religious freedom. Persons continue to be confined, tortured, imprisoned, and subject to other forms of ill treatment on account of their religion or belief.”1

The government requires Christians to worship in atheistic government-controlled churches. Refusing to do so, some 60 to 100 million risk their lives and liberty to worship in underground “house churches.” Some Christians have been savagely beaten to death by police for their religious affiliations. Meanwhile, thousands of others are being “reformed by labor” in China’s vast religious gulag, the subjects of inhuman, intense, spirit-breaking physical work.

According to the USIRCF, this crackdown against religious believers “was authorized at the highest levels of the government, according to reportedly official documents obtained by human rights nongovernmental organizations.2

Sudan has aptly been characterized as “the world's most violent abuser of the right to freedom of religion and belief.”3 Since 1983, the government has waged a jihad, or holy war against Christians and other non-Muslims in the southern part of the country. As part of its “scorched-earth policy,” the Sudanese government has encouraged militias and some tribal groups to conduct slave raids on undefended villages in the south and the Nuba Mountains.4 In government refugee camps, Christian mothers have been made to choose between converting to Islam or watching their babies starve. Christian boys are taken from their families, put in military camps, forcibly converted to Islam and sent into war to be sacrificed as cannon fodder.5

In Saudi Arabia, according to a recent U.S. State Department report, “Freedom of religion does not exist. Islam is the official religion, and all citizens must be Muslims.”6 Christianity is effectively banned, and police seek out and raid secret worship services taking place in private homes. Thousands of foreign and national workers are in prison for their faith; some have even been beheaded under fabricated charges.7

In Egypt, the indigenous Coptic Christian community, “while generally able to practice its religion, is threatened in various degrees by terrorism from extreme Islamic groups, by the abusive practices of local police and security forces, and by discriminatory and restrictive Egyptian Government policies.”8

One incident that captured worldwide attention in 1998 is telling. Following the murder of two Coptic Christians, apparently by five Muslim men, police rounded up and tortured almost 1,200 local Copts. The police wanted to portray the murders not as inter-religion strife, but as a matter between Copts—and they were determined to find Christian suspects to prove their point. Their efforts knew few bounds.

Reporting on the incident, Freedom House, a widely respected human rights organization noted, “Many, including women and children, were tied to doors, beaten, whipped, suspended, tied in painful positions and subjected to electric shocks with clamps attached to all parts of their bodies, …. An eleven-year-old child was bound, tortured and suspended from a rotating ceiling fan until he lost conscious. Women and girls were threatened with rape, and some tortured in front of their fathers, sons and husbands.”9 The national government and local government harassed and even jailed those spoke out against these brutalities.

As the beacon of hope for the ideals of liberty and freedom, America must be a strong voice for and a protector of religious freedom.

Pooooooooor pooooooooor little christians!!! Where is their god to protect them now??!!!

Lets just stand around and say prayers, and everything will be better. After all, it is so easy to blame everything on someone or something else.

Religious fanatics.... Sheesh!!!

[incanada1234 0]

Pooooooooor pooooooooor little christians!!! Where is their god to protect them now??!!!

Lets just stand around and say prayers, and everything will be better. After all, it is so easy to blame everything on someone or something else.

Religious fanatics.... Sheesh!!!

You're starting to sound a little psychotic.

[Jenn! 918]

Pooooooooor pooooooooor little christians!!! Where is their god to protect them now??!!!

Lets just stand around and say prayers, and everything will be better. After all, it is so easy to blame everything on someone or something else.

Religious fanatics.... Sheesh!!!

You're starting to sound a little psychotic.

Now you know how we feel!

[*Robert* 2]

No shite!!! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!! I make a less than one paragraph statement... and I'M the one who is psychotic... as opposed to all these rants of religious mumbo jumbo and quoting from a fictitious source... (aka the bible)

hmmm... maybe I hit a nerve?!!! GOOD!!!

[rclouse 0]

Lets just stand around and say prayers, and everything will be better.

I love what Dave Cross had to say about prayer. He said he blames the Christians for Hurricane Katrina. Why? Because, obviously, they didn't pray hard enough! If they had only prayed harder, God would have directed the hurricane away from New Orleans, but since they didn't pray hard enough, it's all their fault.