25,000 Evangelical Christian Youth rally against promiscuity and corporate culture

[Sister Fracas 5]

So many pretend to be tolerant, as I've said so many times before, then tolerate my beliefs too even if you don't agree with them.

hmm, don't know if that was directed at me or not...

[chri'stina 190]

She said religion Cian. Her example is Christianity. I am sure Missliss knows morality existed before Jesus because the bible tells us so.

Buddhism existed 2549 years ago you know.. (just to back up the "morality existed before Jesus... " )

For the sake of debate only, The Old Testament was written even before that, which also had laid out morals, and which prophesied Jesus's coming, and since Jesus is God, and God was the same God of the old testament, that is much older than Buddhism.

So many pretend to be tolerant, as I've said so many times before, then tolerate my beliefs too even if you don't agree with them.

hmm, don't know if that was directed at me or not...

nah Frances...you and I get along very well on VJ despite our differences.

It's not even just about things written on VJ but everywhere I go in life, ppl saying how open minded they are and then if you say you are a Christian, it gets scary.

(I think I need to go unwind....hehe) How did all my quotes get messed up...

Edited June 6, 2006 by stina&suj

[SteveLaura 0]

[Jenn! 918]

Basically those of us who believe in the bible and follow that way, have every right to do so and to say what we believe. It is not shoving it down anyone's throat, its SPEAKING A BELIEF. Shoving is telling you that you HAVE to do what I say. Saying what I believe is not forcing anyone to do anything, for God's sake.

Maybe I am exagerrating, but after being gone all day and coming back to read this thread....there is so much intolerance towards Christians too it's not even funny! Self-righteousness comes in many forms...not only in a religious form, but people who think they know everything and who do not want to let Christians believe what they believe either.

People always say something is getting shoved down their throats, from hearing words being spoken or reading what someone writes here. Opinions are considered shoving something down someones throat...???? I could say words are getting shoved down my throat too by some of this stuff I read, because I do not agree with it and could be belittled for not agreeing if I really got into it all(notice I said could be, not definitely will be). Pahhh whatever, time to cook not to be ticked off.

So many pretend to be tolerant, as I've said so many times before, then tolerate my beliefs too even if you don't agree with them.

But I have never told anyone he is an immoral person because he is Christian. The distinct impression I am getting is that Christians feel that those who do not believe in a higher power and an afterlife must be immoral. I would call that intolerant.

[Sister Fracas 5]

(I think I need to go unwind....hehe) How did all my quotes get messed up...

go find some samoas..

[chri'stina 190]

Basically those of us who believe in the bible and follow that way, have every right to do so and to say what we believe. It is not shoving it down anyone's throat, its SPEAKING A BELIEF. Shoving is telling you that you HAVE to do what I say. Saying what I believe is not forcing anyone to do anything, for God's sake.

Maybe I am exagerrating, but after being gone all day and coming back to read this thread....there is so much intolerance towards Christians too it's not even funny! Self-righteousness comes in many forms...not only in a religious form, but people who think they know everything and who do not want to let Christians believe what they believe either.

People always say something is getting shoved down their throats, from hearing words being spoken or reading what someone writes here. Opinions are considered shoving something down someones throat...???? I could say words are getting shoved down my throat too by some of this stuff I read, because I do not agree with it and could be belittled for not agreeing if I really got into it all(notice I said could be, not definitely will be). Pahhh whatever, time to cook not to be ticked off.

So many pretend to be tolerant, as I've said so many times before, then tolerate my beliefs too even if you don't agree with them.

But I have never told anyone he is an immoral person because he is Christian. The distinct impression I am getting is that Christians feel that those who do not believe in a higher power and an afterlife must be immoral. I would call that intolerant.

well speaking from the Bible, it does say that we all need to be changed in our minds and that it can only happen through Jesus...and that is a belief of Christians generally. I am not saying that non-Christians have no morals, I think God put certain morals into every human but it's our choice whether we want them molded by Jesus to be more like Him in holiness and to stop doing certain things God does not want, or to be more like everyone around us, and less like Him. But I know this argument will not fly with someone who doesn't agree with it. Again it would be called intolerant. Well, I'm trying to follow the bible because I believe it holds the truth and I believe the words in it. That's all I can sy at the moment about it, I have to start cooking dinner shortly.

(I think I need to go unwind....hehe) How did all my quotes get messed up...

go find some samoas..

salivating...I just watched Anthony Bordain's "no reservations" that my mom had recorded for me. He went to India and was eating so much yummy looking Indian food. I wanttt!!

Ok I have to go cook dinner, and got all wound up here...and just wanted to try to end on a better note.

I have made it very open that I am a Christian, and if I have ever been hypocritical on here(ever on VJ I mean), I am very sorry and it never was an intention. I have my beliefs which I value very much and hold them so dear to my heart and truly believe in them. But I also respect ppl's right to choose what they believe, even if I don't agree with it.

I get along very well with some members where we don't agree on religious issues, but respect each other a lot. I respect Frances a lot, and I also respect Agent Smith, who also is not a Christian and definitely disagrees with me on this stuff...and I respect many many others who don't agree with me on this. But it's a mutual respect kind of thing.

If I haven't shown someone respect, I am sorry! I need to get out of this thread or I may never leave it. Good evening all.

[mercuryroad 0]

If you want to protest in the name of the Lord then do it to your own congregation (Again, we have freedom of speech in this country. That's one thing I love about my country. I may not agree with the ideology behind a gay march or abortion rights activist holding up signs in the street but I am glad they have the right and are free to do so

-Jamie

From a Christian to another Christian, I say these people are f'ng up the religion......making it seem intolerant, crude and backwards. They make it more difficult for people to learn God's Word by dressing it in garbage. They do a diservice to His deeds by pointing fingers and throwing stones. They act in His name when they have no place to do so. This has nothing to do with the first amendment.....this is not politics. This is one Christian saying to others that they are ruining the message and turning people away with their actions.

Edited June 6, 2006 by mercuryroad

[almaty 19]

well put bro merc

[CanGal 1]

I was debating about answering in here and now here I am. I may and or probally will get flamed somewhat for what I say but I guess that all comes with the territory of the topic. First of all, I am a christian and I just want to state that in my own beliefs I don't even belief that in itself is a religion. Religion is man made and based upon rituals and rules set before us by man. My beliefs are soley based upon my personal relationship with my Lord. Christianity is a personal relationship (well it should be) in every christian believer. I do believe that there have been many people who give the christians a bad name and a bad rap but i can say i've never met any christian who believed they were ever better than anyone else. We are no better than anyone else. We are just as human as a non believer. We struggle just as much as a non believer. Like I said we are all human. The difference is is that "I" myself have recognized my faults and my sinful nature and I have asked God to forgive me. Can a person live a moral life without religion? Yes I believe so. But just because you go to church, or just because you are a good person, do you believe thats good enough to get you on Gods good side? I am not here to make that judgement, I dont' make up the rules, but all I know is that Jesus said he was the only way. No one can come to the Father accept through me. God has given us all free choice. The choice is to choose him or not to choose him. He doesn't send anyone to hell. We send ourselves if we choose to live a life without him. Again, I don't make up the rules, and I am not here to judge.

Also these protestors were not infringing their beliefs on anyone. They were just standing up for a belief that they wanted to be heard by others. They weren't saying you had to convert or that you had to be like them. Jesus in his time as well taught and proclaimed his beliefs in front of thousands of people at a time. Did everyone agree then? most certainly not.... the people of the church at that time were the one who turned him in!

"Does the world hate you? Remember that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you like one of its own. But you do not belong to the world. I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." -- John 15:18-19

It's only gonna get worse for christians as time goes on, I wish I could not say so. But God states that we all will be hated and a time may come where we have to stand. He came to die for me so that he could give me life. Not just eternal life but life now in the world. He is my way, my truth, and my life. I can't deny a bit of that. If that means that sometimes I have to stand up and state that I don't agree with something and be blasted down for it so be it. Jesus didn't call me to be a benchsitter. Do I hate those who do not agree with me? Of course not, and I respect all of you and all your oppions. We all have the "Freedom of Choice" and if thats what you choose than thats what you choose. But we all as human beings have the want to be heard and in this country we have the right to a voice. These kids werent being rude, or damning anyone. They just wanted to be heard. Just like everyone else. If that offends people, maybe we should really look deep inside and ask ourselves why? Is what their stating really true? Maybe it's hitting to close to home and there's just stuff in our own live we don't want to deal with? Thats called conviction my friends

[Jenn! 918]

If that offends people, maybe we should really look deep inside and ask ourselves why? Is what their stating really true? Maybe it's hitting to close to home and there's just stuff in our own live we don't want to deal with?

You're not the first to have said something like this. I truly don't understand why there is this assumption that because I don't agree with something, that must mean that I am in denial.

[CanGal 1]

I never stated you are in denial, all i said is "maybe" these things go deeper than we all might think? Things aren't always as they seem.

[Chuckles 0]

I was debating about answering in here and now here I am. I may and or probally will get flamed somewhat for what I say but I guess that all comes with the territory of the topic. First of all, I am a christian and I just want to state that in my own beliefs I don't even belief that in itself is a religion. Religion is man made and based upon rituals and rules set before us by man. My beliefs are soley based upon my personal relationship with my Lord. Christianity is a personal relationship (well it should be) in every christian believer. I do believe that there have been many people who give the christians a bad name and a bad rap but i can say i've never met any christian who believed they were ever better than anyone else. We are no better than anyone else. We are just as human as a non believer. We struggle just as much as a non believer. Like I said we are all human. The difference is is that "I" myself have recognized my faults and my sinful nature and I have asked God to forgive me. Can a person live a moral life without religion? Yes I believe so. But just because you go to church, or just because you are a good person, do you believe thats good enough to get you on Gods good side? I am not here to make that judgement, I dont' make up the rules, but all I know is that Jesus said he was the only way. No one can come to the Father accept through me. God has given us all free choice. The choice is to choose him or not to choose him. He doesn't send anyone to hell. We send ourselves if we choose to live a life without him. Again, I don't make up the rules, and I am not here to judge.

Also these protestors were not infringing their beliefs on anyone. They were just standing up for a belief that they wanted to be heard by others. They weren't saying you had to convert or that you had to be like them. Jesus in his time as well taught and proclaimed his beliefs in front of thousands of people at a time. Did everyone agree then? most certainly not.... the people of the church at that time were the one who turned him in!

"Does the world hate you? Remember that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you like one of its own. But you do not belong to the world. I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." -- John 15:18-19

It's only gonna get worse for christians as time goes on, I wish I could not say so. But God states that we all will be hated and a time may come where we have to stand. He came to die for me so that he could give me life. Not just eternal life but life now in the world. He is my way, my truth, and my life. I can't deny a bit of that. If that means that sometimes I have to stand up and state that I don't agree with something and be blasted down for it so be it. Jesus didn't call me to be a benchsitter. Do I hate those who do not agree with me? Of course not, and I respect all of you and all your oppions. We all have the "Freedom of Choice" and if thats what you choose than thats what you choose. But we all as human beings have the want to be heard and in this country we have the right to a voice. These kids werent being rude, or damning anyone. They just wanted to be heard. Just like everyone else. If that offends people, maybe we should really look deep inside and ask ourselves why? Is what their stating really true? Maybe it's hitting to close to home and there's just stuff in our own live we don't want to deal with? Thats called conviction my friends

Well, deep religous debate could go on forever. But since you bring it up, why would the only way to God be through Jesus? Whey would an immoral man be admitted to heaven if he renounced his sins and accepted Jesus as savior with his dying breath? Why would a man with the morals of Ghandi be sent to hell while this man rose to heaven? This makes no sense. And yes, if you do not believe Ghandi is in hell, you are not a true Christian.

There is too much in the Bible that is way too convienent and self serving. I can accept the teachings of Jesus Christ and his disciples, as well as the prophets and Jewish leaders, as a great moral guideline from great men. I cannot accept it as the word of God, a perfect being, with so many self-serving rules and regulations. Plus the fact that many books are left out, and many of the words changed (all documented facts of history). Anyway, there is my opinion.

[CanGal 1]

How was jesus teachings self serving? he is documented as one of the most selfless people of all time

Jesus didn't come for his own means but for us as a humanity. He was God, do you think it sounded appealing for him to want to come down and take on human form? probably not, but he did so anyways. Why? because he loved us all that much. I'm not saying you have to believe that, but it's true, if you want to believe it or not. I'm not forcing anything, i'm not disrespecting. Thats just how it goes. If an immoral man was dying and asked for forgivness of sins and asked jesus to save him why wouldn't he be allowed to get into heaven? It's all about the issue of the heart, if it was a genuine prayer then I believe he would be admitted. Like I said, I dont make up the rules. Jesus says he's the only way. I believe that. The End

God ways don't always make sense to me either. But i'm only human, and my mind may not be built to even come close to comprehend his ways. He sees the whole picture, I cannot.

[Vipul and Jamie 0]

If you want to protest in the name of the Lord then do it to your own congregation (Again, we have freedom of speech in this country. That's one thing I love about my country. I may not agree with the ideology behind a gay march or abortion rights activist holding up signs in the street but I am glad they have the right and are free to do so

-Jamie

From a Christian to another Christian, I say these people are f'ng up the religion......making it seem intolerant, crude and backwards. They make it more difficult for people to learn God's Word by dressing it in garbage. They do a diservice to His deeds by pointing fingers and throwing stones. They act in His name when they have no place to do so. This has nothing to do with the first amendment.....this is not politics. This is one Christian saying to others that they are ruining the message and turning people away with their actions.

That's one of the big misconceptions in this whole debate. Stating your beliefs whether they be in church or in public is not the same as "throwing stones." It's not saying "I am without fault and you are the sinner." I really really wish people could understand that. It's stating one's opinion/beliefs. If someone is feeling emotional about what what is being preached then maybe they need to look into why they feel that within themselves. I will never understand why people get so offended or threatened by a Christian stating their beliefs. If someone doesn't believe in it...then that's their choice and their right. There are alot of opinions/beliefs made public in the world that I don't agree with either. The reason why I brought up freedom of speech was because of the comment was made that christians needed to keep their opinions in their own congregation.

-Jamie

Edited June 6, 2006 by VipulandJamie

[CanGal 1]

Exactly VipulandJamie! Never once did they say we are perfect and you all are horrible sinners! We all fall short of the Glory of God. We all have our own issues, and we all struggle. They were just voicing a belief, they were taking a stand for THEMSELVES.