Is Poverty In America More A Choice Or A Condition?

[JamalNTam 1]

Clearly, you had some edges most in poverty do not- as I have as well ( A parent with a degree, and a very high IQ, and a middle class family). Most of the poor do not come from middle class families.

And you are correct- spanking is a cultural/generational issue. I was trying to make the point, that violence is more common in poor families.

I congratulate you on your success, and also my success. But, it certainly is not the norm, I believe, because the culture of poverty does not allow it to be.

The stress on a school child from poverty- is very different than that of a school child from adequate ( if basic middle class) means- and seriously affects school performance and life success. (i.e.- having a painful cavity for 2-3 or more weeks because you don't have health insurance- how well can you do in school?; having to babysit younger siblings after school, prepare dinner, do baths.... and check homework because Mom is working- when does your homework get done?; having to work the 3-11 pm shift- walk home and wake at 4 to do homework so you can be an "A" student and break the cycle of poverty.)

The worry, stress, and hopelessness that come with growing up in poverty creates a permanent poor.

It is superhuman to break out of this. And it totally depends on parenting that raises you to be resilient and persevering. Many hopeless parents cannot embrace and preach resilience and perseverance if they don't believe it exists.

Just my thoughts.

I agree! Jamal grew up 'poor' in North Philly. He found that the military was his only escape. He's very clever but due to certain situations in his life he did not get the grades needed to go to college. He grew up knowing what its like to be hungry, wondering why he was even here and having to work from the age of 10 to support his family. He is a very strong person and I'm so proud of him that he overcame the things that happened to him early in life. He tells me that many people who grew up on his block are still there to this day. It's not they chose this life, its because they are not as strong as him and its very wrong to blame these people and say its their fault, they chose this poor life.

[smoke20 0]

Clearly, you had some edges most in poverty do not- as I have as well ( A parent with a degree, and a very high IQ, and a middle class family). Most of the poor do not come from middle class families.

And you are correct- spanking is a cultural/generational issue. I was trying to make the point, that violence is more common in poor families.

I congratulate you on your success, and also my success. But, it certainly is not the norm, I believe, because the culture of poverty does not allow it to be.

The stress on a school child from poverty- is very different than that of a school child from adequate ( if basic middle class) means- and seriously affects school performance and life success. (i.e.- having a painful cavity for 2-3 or more weeks because you don't have health insurance- how well can you do in school?; having to babysit younger siblings after school, prepare dinner, do baths.... and check homework because Mom is working- when does your homework get done?; having to work the 3-11 pm shift- walk home and wake at 4 to do homework so you can be an "A" student and break the cycle of poverty.)

The worry, stress, and hopelessness that come with growing up in poverty creates a permanent poor.

It is superhuman to break out of this. And it totally depends on parenting that raises you to be resilient and persevering. Many hopeless parents cannot embrace and preach resilience and perseverance if they don't believe it exists.

Just my thoughts.

I agree! Jamal grew up 'poor' in North Philly. He found that the military was his only escape. He's very clever but due to certain situations in his life he did not get the grades needed to go to college. He grew up knowing what its like to be hungry, wondering why he was even here and having to work from the age of 10 to support his family. He is a very strong person and I'm so proud of him that he overcame the things that happened to him early in life. He tells me that many people who grew up on his block are still there to this day. It's not they chose this life, its because they are not as strong as him and its very wrong to blame these people and say its their fault, they chose this poor life.

my point exactly Jamal didn't want to ride the "gimme train". he saw an out in the military & took it.

look i'm not downing anyone on any assistance program. the programs are there for a reason-to give a hand up-, too many use them for a -hand out-. if you don't try to do it on your own. you are riding the "gimme train" your whole life.

[Alex+R 0]

Clearly, you had some edges most in poverty do not- as I have as well ( A parent with a degree, and a very high IQ, and a middle class family). Most of the poor do not come from middle class families.

And you are correct- spanking is a cultural/generational issue. I was trying to make the point, that violence is more common in poor families.

I congratulate you on your success, and also my success. But, it certainly is not the norm, I believe, because the culture of poverty does not allow it to be.

The stress on a school child from poverty- is very different than that of a school child from adequate ( if basic middle class) means- and seriously affects school performance and life success. (i.e.- having a painful cavity for 2-3 or more weeks because you don't have health insurance- how well can you do in school?; having to babysit younger siblings after school, prepare dinner, do baths.... and check homework because Mom is working- when does your homework get done?; having to work the 3-11 pm shift- walk home and wake at 4 to do homework so you can be an "A" student and break the cycle of poverty.)

The worry, stress, and hopelessness that come with growing up in poverty creates a permanent poor.

It is superhuman to break out of this. And it totally depends on parenting that raises you to be resilient and persevering. Many hopeless parents cannot embrace and preach resilience and perseverance if they don't believe it exists.

Just my thoughts.

I agree! Jamal grew up 'poor' in North Philly. He found that the military was his only escape. He's very clever but due to certain situations in his life he did not get the grades needed to go to college. He grew up knowing what its like to be hungry, wondering why he was even here and having to work from the age of 10 to support his family. He is a very strong person and I'm so proud of him that he overcame the things that happened to him early in life. He tells me that many people who grew up on his block are still there to this day. It's not they chose this life, its because they are not as strong as him and its very wrong to blame these people and say its their fault, they chose this poor life.

my point exactly Jamal didn't want to ride the "gimme train". he saw an out in the military & took it.

look i'm not downing anyone on any assistance program. the programs are there for a reason-to give a hand up-, too many use them for a -hand out-. if you don't try to do it on your own. you are riding the "gimme train" your whole life.

You missed her point. She's saying her husband's exceptional motivation makes him the exception. You are still blaming his old neighbors. You can be poor, and not accepting/qualifying for government assistance; so how is it fair to make fun of all those people as being on some sort of "gimme train" (which I can only assume means that you see them as asking for handouts instead of working)?

[smoke20 0]

Clearly, you had some edges most in poverty do not- as I have as well ( A parent with a degree, and a very high IQ, and a middle class family). Most of the poor do not come from middle class families.

And you are correct- spanking is a cultural/generational issue. I was trying to make the point, that violence is more common in poor families.

I congratulate you on your success, and also my success. But, it certainly is not the norm, I believe, because the culture of poverty does not allow it to be.

The stress on a school child from poverty- is very different than that of a school child from adequate ( if basic middle class) means- and seriously affects school performance and life success. (i.e.- having a painful cavity for 2-3 or more weeks because you don't have health insurance- how well can you do in school?; having to babysit younger siblings after school, prepare dinner, do baths.... and check homework because Mom is working- when does your homework get done?; having to work the 3-11 pm shift- walk home and wake at 4 to do homework so you can be an "A" student and break the cycle of poverty.)

The worry, stress, and hopelessness that come with growing up in poverty creates a permanent poor.

It is superhuman to break out of this. And it totally depends on parenting that raises you to be resilient and persevering. Many hopeless parents cannot embrace and preach resilience and perseverance if they don't believe it exists.

Just my thoughts.

I agree! Jamal grew up 'poor' in North Philly. He found that the military was his only escape. He's very clever but due to certain situations in his life he did not get the grades needed to go to college. He grew up knowing what its like to be hungry, wondering why he was even here and having to work from the age of 10 to support his family. He is a very strong person and I'm so proud of him that he overcame the things that happened to him early in life. He tells me that many people who grew up on his block are still there to this day. It's not they chose this life, its because they are not as strong as him and its very wrong to blame these people and say its their fault, they chose this poor life.

my point exactly Jamal didn't want to ride the "gimme train". he saw an out in the military & took it.

look i'm not downing anyone on any assistance program. the programs are there for a reason-to give a hand up-, too many use them for a -hand out-. if you don't try to do it on your own. you are riding the "gimme train" your whole life.

You missed her point. She's saying her husband's exceptional motivation makes him the exception. You are still blaming his old neighbors. You can be poor, and not accepting/qualifying for government assistance; so how is it fair to make fun of all those people as being on some sort of "gimme train" (which I can only assume means that you see them as asking for handouts instead of working)?

uummm NO i think you missed my point. if you want to stand up you can. and i never made fun of anyone

[Alex+R 0]

What did you mean by "if you want to stand up you can"?

The phrase "gimme train" is inherently insulting to people you accuse of being, um, on it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Seems to me noone in their right mind would willingly choose to be poor.

You got that right. Unfortunately lots of people are not in their right mind.

I voted "choice" - assuming we're talking about extreme poverty and not the people who think they're underpaid.

I'm not sure that apathy counts as a choice.

I'm not sure myself, but apathy, laziness, lack of aspirations and motivation are definitely

among the main causes of poverty.

I feel there is a culture of poverty in America. A culture that spans generations because the

negative attitudes, low self-esteem, lack of confidence, feelings of inferiority and exclusion from

political processes are passed from generation to generation. The poor believe that the "system

is stacked against them", that "no-one listens" or "represents their views", and as a result, the

next generation is unable to break out of poverty because poverty is all they have ever known.

I think you have some valid points there, Mark, but I'd say in spite of self imposed barriers, I believe that most people, when the opportunity exists, overcome such perceived barriers. I would agree that some people, for whatever reason, lack the capacity to take care of themselves even when there is opportunity to do so, but I'm more inclined to believe that it isn't a cognitive choice not to take care of themselves, but a mental condition.

[KarenCee 3]

As a single mom I worked two jobs too and I made it. Not once did I take assistance. It was offered but I declined it, not out of any sense of embarrassment or pride, but because I wanted to prove to myself that I could make it without help. I do know it's so much easier to just take welfare and all the assistance that comes with it than work. I wanted to stand on my own two feet and make something of myself...which I have. However, I truly believe that if a family, or a single parent really needs the assistance, they should be able to use it and hold their heads up rather than be thought of as a scourge on society simply because they've fallen on hard times.

IMHO an example of poverty by condition would be how medical catastrophies can wipe out a family almost overnight, metaphorically speaking, hence putting them in the poverty class. That isn't by choice. I've seen it happen and it scares me to death to think how the very same thing could happen to me and my husband despite having insurance.

Poverty isn't by choice...not totally. I do believe one can change their circumstances to make themselves better. However, if you choose not to, then it becomes poverty by choice and you have no one to blame but yourself.

[KarenCee 3]

What did you mean by "if you want to stand up you can"?

The phrase "gimme train" is inherently insulting to people you accuse of being, um, on it.

I agree. It IS insulting to those that are "on the train" as this person put it. How do you know they wanted to be "on it" to begin with, eh? I don't begrudge anyone the assistance that is out there if they truly need it to get through a hard time in their life. I know many that have had to be "on the train" and have gotten off as soon as they were able.

[smoke20 0]

What did you mean by "if you want to stand up you can"?

The phrase "gimme train" is inherently insulting to people you accuse of being, um, on it.

YES if they do not try to stand up they are riding the "GIMME TRAIN"

Stand up- get off assistance programs

if i insulted anyonr i'm sorry.... but, if the truth hurts... do something to change it.

[Alex+R 0]

What did you mean by "if you want to stand up you can"?

The phrase "gimme train" is inherently insulting to people you accuse of being, um, on it.

YES if they do not try to stand up they are riding the "GIMME TRAIN"

Stand up- get off assistance programs

if i insulted anyonr i'm sorry.... but, if the truth hurts... do something to change it.

With the welfare reform from the 90s, it's nearly impossible to be a "welfare queen" or similar these days. Most people on assistance get off it as quickly as possible. If they don't they are usually forced to do it. If they can't get off certain benefits, then they probably deserve to be on them (i.e. disability).

It is also worth mentioning that "poor" and "relying on government assistance" are not synonymous.

[Aymerlu 3]

I say poverty is a condition. I grew up in a poor family and both my parents were hard working. Regardless of their education, they could not get ahead. When I was in 9th grade my dad had a bad accident at work which left him disabled equaling 1 less income for the family. I graduate, go to school (took out a lot of student loans) and earned an associates in nursing. I did ok on my own after graduating, but still struggled with bills. Fastforward a few years, I get married and have kids, get a divorce and reality hit! My good paying job wasn't enough to pay for the kids doctors visits, medications, gas for the car, etc. I was having to ask my parents that are now well off for money! I was so humilited! And because I worked and made decent money (supposedly) I could not get assitance for my kids. So here a I a now single mom, cannot get child support, day care is $900.00 a month and I cannot make ends me. Did I choose this???? Hell no!!!! I had to pick up a part time job just to pay for the freaking day care! After about 6 years of playing that game I finally was able to get back on my feet and get child support from the ex.

My friends and I often discuss this. How we all have so called good jobs, but still struggle OR how some have a lot of degrees and cannot even get a decent job. Choice? I think not.

[mawilson 2,133]

What did you mean by "if you want to stand up you can"?

The phrase "gimme train" is inherently insulting to people you accuse of being, um, on it.

I agree. It IS insulting to those that are "on the train" as this person put it. How do you know they wanted to be "on it" to begin with, eh? I don't begrudge anyone the assistance that is out there if they truly need it to get through a hard time in their life. I know many that have had to be "on the train" and have gotten off as soon as they were able.

KarenCee,

If you had a job and then lost it for whatever reason, you would file a claim for unemployment

benefits provided by state unemployment insurance programs. You would never get

"on the welfare train." Welfare in the U.S. is reserved for the chronically poor. If it seems

insulting, it's because it is.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Seems to me noone in their right mind would willingly choose to be poor.

You got that right. Unfortunately lots of people are not in their right mind.

I voted "choice" - assuming we're talking about extreme poverty and not the people who think they're underpaid.

I'm not sure that apathy counts as a choice.

I'm not sure myself, but apathy, laziness, lack of aspirations and motivation are definitely

among the main causes of poverty.

I feel there is a culture of poverty in America. A culture that spans generations because the

negative attitudes, low self-esteem, lack of confidence, feelings of inferiority and exclusion from

political processes are passed from generation to generation. The poor believe that the "system

is stacked against them", that "no-one listens" or "represents their views", and as a result, the

next generation is unable to break out of poverty because poverty is all they have ever known.

Sure - but if we're talking about a state of mind here apathy isn't that much different to say, depression or happiness. You don't choose to be either - you either are or aren't depressed or you aren't or aren't happy. In a lot of ways its not something a person has control over. In fact you might suggest that a cycle of poverty is a form of depression.

[KarenCee 3]

What did you mean by "if you want to stand up you can"?

The phrase "gimme train" is inherently insulting to people you accuse of being, um, on it.

I agree. It IS insulting to those that are "on the train" as this person put it. How do you know they wanted to be "on it" to begin with, eh? I don't begrudge anyone the assistance that is out there if they truly need it to get through a hard time in their life. I know many that have had to be "on the train" and have gotten off as soon as they were able.

KarenCee,

If you had a job and then lost it for whatever reason, you would file a claim for unemployment

benefits provided by state unemployment insurance programs. You would never get

"on the welfare train." Welfare in the U.S. is reserved for the chronically poor. If it seems

insulting, it's because it is.

Unemployment is assistance, in a manner of speaking. And yes, I would because it would mean the difference in my family eating and having a roof over their heads. I don't begrudge anyone availing themselves of this particular benefit. Their tax dollars paid for this in some way. I wasn't referring to unemployment insurance in my post. Other assistance such as food stamps, TANF, Medicaid, etc. are more along the lines of government assistance that I was thinking of.

[msu17 0]

Looking at my family, I can tell who will get out of poverty and who won't. My one niece continues to make poor choices and will never get out no matter what anyone does for her. My other niece however makes much smarter choices, and given the opportunity could get out. Not a definite, but much less likely to stay in the system. So I guess to me its a mix. Its definitly NOT easy to get out and the system is stacked against those in the lower class however making poor life choices will probably keep you there.