Is Poverty In America More A Choice Or A Condition?

[phila 0]

Hmmm... How is the system stacked against the poor?

1. No role models- parents have no education, speak basic English or improper English from childhood on...

(compared with the students I teach in the top 5% of income and privelege in America- 2 parents, Ph.D.'s..)

2. Limited cultural capital - parents or more likely "parent"- does not know about "time-outs" vs. spanking- and child learns culture of physically solving crises, rather than intellectual processing.

3. Diet/Nutrition Overall well-being of body. Poor diet- high carb (cheap food) vs. healthy veggies, lean protein, vitamins and ability to afford gym/ personal trainers, healthy lifestyle. Rejuvinating vacations also help psyche.

4. SAT tutors/ Life coaches who help daily with homework etc... (Most of my ninth graders have 2 hours a week of SAT tutoring to prepare for junior year college entry exams.

5. Supportive home environment. Mom or Dad supervises, edites, encourages academic achievement- (Poor- Mom is working 3 jobs)

6. On welfare living in projects- DEPRESSING

7. Q. Why not get off welfare? Why not get a job?- A. Well you lose housing subsidies and ALL MEDICAL CARE FOR CHILDREN, when you get a job.

I've had a long day, but could write this list easily to a hundred items.....

3.

[smoke20 0]

it depends on what you call poverty. i personally did'nt understand true poverty until i was outside of the US.

[homesick_american 1]

Hmmm... How is the system stacked against the poor?

1. No role models- parents have no education, speak basic English or improper English from childhood on...

(compared with the students I teach in the top 5% of income and privelege in America- 2 parents, Ph.D.'s..)

2. Limited cultural capital - parents or more likely "parent"- does not know about "time-outs" vs. spanking- and child learns culture of physically solving crises, rather than intellectual processing.

3. Diet/Nutrition Overall well-being of body. Poor diet- high carb (cheap food) vs. healthy veggies, lean protein, vitamins and ability to afford gym/ personal trainers, healthy lifestyle. Rejuvinating vacations also help psyche.

4. SAT tutors/ Life coaches who help daily with homework etc... (Most of my ninth graders have 2 hours a week of SAT tutoring to prepare for junior year college entry exams.

5. Supportive home environment. Mom or Dad supervises, edites, encourages academic achievement- (Poor- Mom is working 3 jobs)

6. On welfare living in projects- DEPRESSING

7. Q. Why not get off welfare? Why not get a job?- A. Well you lose housing subsidies and ALL MEDICAL CARE FOR CHILDREN, when you get a job.

I've had a long day, but could write this list easily to a hundred items.....

3.

Sure, the middle class definitely has it easier but it's NOT a Leave It To Beaver existence.

For example:

• I grew up middle class with a parent with a GED and a parent with BS degrees in bio and geology.
  
• I was spanked.
  
• We ate a pretty sh!tty diet.
  
• I never had any help whatsoever with the SAT, though I managed to pull a 1350 anyway. Maybe I could have gotten into Harvard with tutoring.
  
• My parents didn't encourage academic achievement; I achieved anyway, and they sent me to college to find a husband.
  

We didn't live in the projects and we certainly weren't on welfare, but it appears the system was stacked against me too by the standards you just mentioned.

Edited June 6, 2007 by homesick_american

[phila 0]

Ok,

Not to soapbox, but this issue is closest to my heart and political being. America is designed to keep the poor - POOR, and to keep the rich- RICH.

How else do you explain our CONSTITUTIONAL public education.

(Oh- and by the way- YES - I did break out of poverty- as did all of my 3 siblings- I believe God, luck, and a hyper-religious Catholic mother who home-schooled us played a part in this)

If education is the key to economic success, how is it that I taught in Central PA- where $3,000 is spent per pupil- porta potties as toilets/ and imagine the quality of teacher they attract at 28,000. VERSUS- Our district where $27, 000 is spent per pupil- average starting salary over $50,000?

Which child do you think is more equipped to succeed?

With the 14th amendment (calling for equal opportunity of all citizens) how is it we base education on property taxes.

Please tell me after 12 years of schooling- who indeed is more equipped to succeed?

[mawilson 2,133]

Seems to me noone in their right mind would willingly choose to be poor.

You got that right. Unfortunately lots of people are not in their right mind.

I voted "choice" - assuming we're talking about extreme poverty and not the people who think they're underpaid.

I'm not sure that apathy counts as a choice.

I'm not sure myself, but apathy, laziness, lack of aspirations and motivation are definitely

among the main causes of poverty.

I feel there is a culture of poverty in America. A culture that spans generations because the

negative attitudes, low self-esteem, lack of confidence, feelings of inferiority and exclusion from

political processes are passed from generation to generation. The poor believe that the "system

is stacked against them", that "no-one listens" or "represents their views", and as a result, the

next generation is unable to break out of poverty because poverty is all they have ever known.

[homesick_american 1]

Ok,

Not to soapbox, but this issue is closest to my heart and political being. America is designed to keep the poor - POOR, and to keep the rich- RICH.

How else do you explain our CONSTITUTIONAL public education.

(Oh- and by the way- YES - I did break out of poverty- as did all of my 3 siblings- I believe God, luck, and a hyper-religious Catholic mother who home-schooled us played a part in this)

If education is the key to economic success, how is it that I taught in Central PA- where $3,000 is spent per pupil- porta potties as toilets/ and imagine the quality of teacher they attract at 28,000. VERSUS- Our district where $27, 000 is spent per pupil- average starting salary over $50,000?

Which child do you think is more equipped to succeed?

With the 14th amendment (calling for equal opportunity of all citizens) how is it we base education on property taxes.

Please tell me after 12 years of schooling- who indeed is more equipped to succeed?

Well...nobody, really. It's hard to make a good living with only a high school education. My dad manages it and plenty of other people do too, but you really need college nowadays so it's sort of a moot point.

I do not agree that the system is designed specifically to keep the poor down. That is a side effect of capitalism.

[JamalNTam 1]

Some people do have choice - but there are alot of people out there in the states who didnt have the choice. They were born into poor families, in bad neighbourhoods and have never had much encouragment from people around them and the government.

[smoke20 0]

Ok,

Not to soapbox, but this issue is closest to my heart and political being. America is designed to keep the poor - POOR, and to keep the rich- RICH.

How else do you explain our CONSTITUTIONAL public education.

(Oh- and by the way- YES - I did break out of poverty- as did all of my 3 siblings- I believe God, luck, and a hyper-religious Catholic mother who home-schooled us played a part in this)

If education is the key to economic success, how is it that I taught in Central PA- where $3,000 is spent per pupil- porta potties as toilets/ and imagine the quality of teacher they attract at 28,000. VERSUS- Our district where $27, 000 is spent per pupil- average starting salary over $50,000?

Which child do you think is more equipped to succeed?

With the 14th amendment (calling for equal opportunity of all citizens) how is it we base education on property taxes.

Please tell me after 12 years of schooling- who indeed is more equipped to succeed?

then get off your soapbox.

i was raised by a single mother w/ 4 kids, working 3 crappy jobs. NEVER did we get on welfare. i graduated hs/college. i live pretty comfy now. why? because i made the Choice not to take hand out...oops i mean gov't assistance live style. people in the US do not understand what poverty is. poverty is something you can not escape. being on the gimme train is a different story.

[homesick_american 1]

I feel there is a culture of poverty in America. A culture that spans generations because the

negative attitudes, low self-esteem, lack of confidence, feelings of inferiority and exclusion from

political processes are passed from generation to generation. The poor believe that the "system

is stacked against them", that "no-one listens" or "represents their views", and as a result, the

next generation is unable to break out of poverty because poverty is all they have ever known.

It's the same as in the UK; I'm sure I don't have to tell you that.

then get off your soapbox.

i was raised by a single mother w/ 4 kids, working 3 crappy jobs. NEVER did we get on welfare. i graduated hs/college. i live pretty comfy now. why? because i made the Choice not to take hand out...oops i mean gov't assistance live style. people in the US do not understand what poverty is. poverty is something you can not escape. being on the gimme train is a different story.

"Gimme train"....LOL! Love it! :lol: :lol:

[mawilson 2,133]

Are you doing that devil's advocate thing you do, or do you just not understand how America works?

I don't presume to understand "how America works", but I stand by what I said.

[Jenn! 918]

then get off your soapbox.

i was raised by a single mother w/ 4 kids, working 3 crappy jobs. NEVER did we get on welfare. i graduated hs/college. i live pretty comfy now. why? because i made the Choice not to take hand out...oops i mean gov't assistance live style. people in the US do not understand what poverty is. poverty is something you can not escape. being on the gimme train is a different story.

The poll is asking about poverty in America, and as was clarified subsequently, defined as living below the poverty level. Saying that poverty in America does not exist like it does in other countries is really beside the point.

[phila 0]

Clearly, you had some edges most in poverty do not- as I have as well ( A parent with a degree, and a very high IQ, and a middle class family). Most of the poor do not come from middle class families.

And you are correct- spanking is a cultural/generational issue. I was trying to make the point, that violence is more common in poor families.

I congratulate you on your success, and also my success. But, it certainly is not the norm, I believe, because the culture of poverty does not allow it to be.

The stress on a school child from poverty- is very different than that of a school child from adequate ( if basic middle class) means- and seriously affects school performance and life success. (i.e.- having a painful cavity for 2-3 or more weeks because you don't have health insurance- how well can you do in school?; having to babysit younger siblings after school, prepare dinner, do baths.... and check homework because Mom is working- when does your homework get done?; having to work the 3-11 pm shift- walk home and wake at 4 to do homework so you can be an "A" student and break the cycle of poverty.)

The worry, stress, and hopelessness that come with growing up in poverty creates a permanent poor.

It is superhuman to break out of this. And it totally depends on parenting that raises you to be resilient and persevering. Many hopeless parents cannot embrace and preach resilience and perseverance if they don't believe it exists.

Just my thoughts.

[Jenn! 918]

Clearly, you had some edges most in poverty do not- as I have as well ( A parent with a degree, and a very high IQ, and a middle class family). Most of the poor do not come from middle class families.

And you are correct- spanking is a cultural/generational issue. I was trying to make the point, that violence is more common in poor families.

I congratulate you on your success, and also my success. But, it certainly is not the norm, I believe, because the culture of poverty does not allow it to be.

The stress on a school child from poverty- is very different than that of a school child from adequate ( if basic middle class) means- and seriously affects school performance and life success. (i.e.- having a painful cavity for 2-3 or more weeks because you don't have health insurance- how well can you do in school?; having to babysit younger siblings after school, prepare dinner, do baths.... and check homework because Mom is working- when does your homework get done?; having to work the 3-11 pm shift- walk home and wake at 4 to do homework so you can be an "A" student and break the cycle of poverty.)

The worry, stress, and hopelessness that come with growing up in poverty creates a permanent poor.

It is superhuman to break out of this. And it totally depends on parenting that raises you to be resilient and persevering. Many hopeless parents cannot embrace and preach resilience and perseverance if they don't believe it exists.

Just my thoughts.

:thumbs:

[smoke20 0]

then get off your soapbox.

i was raised by a single mother w/ 4 kids, working 3 crappy jobs. NEVER did we get on welfare. i graduated hs/college. i live pretty comfy now. why? because i made the Choice not to take hand out...oops i mean gov't assistance live style. people in the US do not understand what poverty is. poverty is something you can not escape. being on the gimme train is a different story.

The poll is asking about poverty in America, and as was clarified subsequently, defined as living below the poverty level. Saying that poverty in America does not exist like it does in other countries is really beside the point.

yes that is what the poll state. but, then we go on a whaa whaa session about how the deck is stacked against people.

[mawilson 2,133]

It's the same as in the UK; I'm sure I don't have to tell you that.

But probably to a lesser extent (I think..... I may be wrong.)