B1 Visa and Esta denied. Possibility of arrival by land?

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

1 hour ago, Richard Purves said:

Do NOT cross by land without either a visa or an ESTA!

 

One of my US friends is dating someone in DHS. He made it very clear that crossing to the border post would be considered entering the USA, and without authorisation you would be checked, immediately arrested ... they would then have to call him out, he'd spent 3-4 hours driving there which wouldn't improve his mood then you'd be interrogated and sent back to Canada/Mexico but with some form of bar to entry for the next few years or even forever.

 

Do NOT cross by land without either a visa or an ESTA!

Um, no. Broken telephone here somewhere between you, your friend and his/her partner. Applying for entry at a border post is not considered “entering the USA”, and it’s already been posted above (link to official page) that canadian citizens and VWP nationals do not need either a visa or ESTA to cross by land.

 

let me copy that again for you:

Do I need ESTA to enter the United States by land?

No.  If you are coming by land you do not need to apply for ESTA.

Note: VWP citizens do not need an ESTA to travel on the ferries between Vancouver and Victoria, BC and Washington state.  They are treated as a land border port.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1258/~/esta---traveling-to-u.s.-by-land

Edited September 19, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[Richard Purves 58]

3 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Um, no. Broken telephone here somewhere between you, your friend and his/her partner. Applying for entry at a border post is not considered “entering the USA”, and it’s already been posted above (link to official page) that canadian citizens and VWP nationals do not need either a visa or ESTA to cross by land.

 

let me copy that again for you:

Do I need ESTA to enter the United States by land?

No.  If you are coming by land you do not need to apply for ESTA.

Note: VWP citizens do not need an ESTA to travel on the ferries between Vancouver and Victoria, BC and Washington state.  They are treated as a land border port.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1258/~/esta---traveling-to-u.s.-by-land

In my case when you've had your ESTA revoked by Consular Officer then I'm erring on the side of caution.

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

3 minutes ago, Richard Purves said:

In my case when you've had your ESTA revoked by Consular Officer then I'm erring on the side of caution.

Caution is one thing (every single poster here has advised against OP’s friend trying this); stating something as a fact of law, and claiming you’d be immediately arrested and then banned for doing it as you did, is another thing entirely.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[Unlockable 7,315]

It always surprises me that people do not understand that these systems are sophisticated enough to have travel and entry history as well as denials of a person. We have mobile devices in our pockets that can communicate with people around the world even by video yet an advanced country's border security would not know a person was denied ESTA/B2 on their little old computers'

 

When i went for my interview for Global Entry, I distinctly remember the officer asking me about a time I went to Canada that I had totally forgot about (it was a 1 day business trip). He kept having this confused look about and thought he was mistaken until I finally remembered. That 1 day Canada trip was almost 8 years prior. So, yeah, they will know about your  "friend's" travel history including visa applications.

[Richard Purves 58]

4 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Caution is one thing (every single poster here has advised against OP’s friend trying this); stating something as a fact of law, and claiming you’d be immediately arrested and then banned for doing it as you did, is another thing entirely.

 

 

Don't shoot the messenger. This is what I was told and I explicitly stated what I was told. So calm yourself.

[Hapyhands 3]

18 hours ago, Hapyhands said:

My friend from Estonia had applied for a B1 visa about 3 months ago and was denied and recently applied for the Esta and was also denied.

She is interested in trying to the US arrive by land from either Canada or Mexico by filling out the I-94w.  

We are wondering about the best options in getting her here soon and if anyone has experienced the same or similar situation. 

We understand she can still technically enter by land without the Esta but want to know the likelyhood for her to be admitted this way or if there are any other/better options for her.

 

Thanks,

Timothy

 

 

 

Op here. Thank you for everyones help with the information. I understand that it would be unlikely for her to enter with the previous denials but I wanted to try all the options rather than just give up. To be clear, we are NOT trying to do anything illegal and yes we are romantic. I glad some of you got a good laugh out of my stupidity and I hope your visa journeys are all going well.

Thank you

[designguy 1,179]

1 hour ago, Richard Purves said:

Do NOT cross by land without either a visa or an ESTA!

 

One of my US friends is dating someone in DHS. He made it very clear that crossing to the border post would be considered entering the USA, and without authorization you would be checked, immediately arrested ... they would then have to call him out, he'd spent 3-4 hours driving there which wouldn't improve his mood then you'd be interrogated and sent back to Canada/Mexico but with some form of bar to entry for the next few years or even forever.

 

Do NOT cross by land without either a visa or an ESTA!

I agree there may be some confusion here. The only time you would be arrested at the border would be if you have some outstanding warrant or if there was some sort of gross misrepresentation. There is nothing illegal about presenting oneself for entry at the US border with or without a visa. If you are deemed inadmissible then you will either be sent back on a plane to where ever you came from, or if you are at a land crossing, you would go back to the country you are crossing from. Also a denial of entry at the border does not equate to a bar from entering again

 

Showing up at a border without ESTA is not illegal. For land crossings it is not required and even for air travel, for example, if someone got through and was able to board a flight to the US without ESTA, it would actually be the responsibility of the airline. Which will probably incur a fine. The person would not have done anything illegal and would most likely be denied entry once they are inspected by a CBP officer

Edited September 19, 2019 by designguy

[geowrian 22,338]

42 minutes ago, Richard Purves said:

Don't shoot the messenger. This is what I was told and I explicitly stated what I was told. So calm yourself.

Either the message got lost somewhere or they're just outright wrong. There is no basis to arrest somebody just for applying for entry via the VWP.

 

There is a risk of any applicant for entry getting an expedited deportation under INA 212(a)(7)(a)(i)(i), but this is not something they generally do unless somebody is trying to misrepresent their intentions.

 

It's a very far cry from "crossing to the border post would be considered entering the USA, and without authorisation you would be checked, immediately arrested".

1) The passport is the valid travel document to apply for entry in this case. No other authorization is required. This is in the INA.

2) "Would" states what would actually happen. This is not a fact and should not be claimed as one.

3) Even the 5 year ban is something that could happen, not something that would happen.

4) No permanent bar is on the table here unless there's a material, willful misrepresentation.

 

50 minutes ago, Richard Purves said:

In my case when you've had your ESTA revoked by Consular Officer then I'm erring on the side of caution.

A CO does not revoke an ESTA. The CO denied a visa. The denied visa required updating the ESTA application, which almost guarantees a denial of it.

 

33 minutes ago, Hapyhands said:

To be clear, we are NOT trying to do anything illegal and yes we are romantic.

Figured. That's fine, but it would really have been just helpful to note that originally. It was likely the biggest reason for at least the B-1 refusal (which started all of this). They have a strong tie to the US to overcome, and presumably not strong ties back home (like a job where one is expected to physically be in the country). It's a fairly simple call for the CO due to the required presumption of immigrant intent to overcome.

Edited September 19, 2019 by geowrian

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

53 minutes ago, Richard Purves said:

Don't shoot the messenger. This is what I was told and I explicitly stated what I was told. So calm yourself.

Like I said, broken telephone.

or someone was pulling your leg, or trying to make sure you didn’t try this

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[Unlockable 7,315]

33 minutes ago, Hapyhands said:

Op here. Thank you for everyones help with the information. I understand that it would be unlikely for her to enter with the previous denials but I wanted to try all the options rather than just give up. To be clear, we are NOT trying to do anything illegal and yes we are romantic.

Thank you

You don't have to think of it as giving up. You have options, it is just that the options you have are outside of the purpose of visiting. Your friend may very well be able to get a visa sometime in the future, but trying to get her here via the way you intend is pretty much a Hail Mary attempt with her visa history.

If you two are serious, there is still an option of marriage based visa. 

 

Quote

I glad some of you got a good laugh out of my stupidity and I hope your visa journeys are all going well.

 

I don't think people are intentionally making fun of you. It is that you and your friend have suffered from what most of us  (including myself) have when coming from an advanced country... and that is 1st world privilege. A lot of people from advanced countries think they came stay in and out of another country ab libitum with little to no consequences. When I was younger and got my first passport, I knew little of immigration an thought I could simply fly anywhere in the world on a whim. Many people from ESTA countries don't realize how delicate their ESTA status is and take the fact that they can "come over easy" as a false sense of low risk of losing that privilege. Add into the mix a romantic partner and all of a sudden 90 days is not long enough. When you are in love and having fun immigration authorization of stay is the last thing on your mind.

 

This is not the end. You still have options so the two of you can start planning for your future. Who knows, this experience may even make your relationship stronger.

[Helenlc 157]

22 minutes ago, geowrian said:

A CO does not revoke an ESTA. The CO denied a visa. The denied visa required updating the ESTA application, which almost guarantees a denial of it.

I was one of the lucky ones I guess I was denied a tourist visa but applied for an ESTA 2 days later and got approved for the ESTA. (this however was 8 years ago) Was taken in to the little side room on entry into the US on every single visit from then on up until the last 2 and then my entry under K1 was the quickest i cleared customs in years. 

 

Im now undertaking a lot of "arts and craft" projects with my husband.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Helenlc

[geowrian 22,338]

2 minutes ago, Helenlc said:

I was one of the lucky ones I guess I was denied a tourist visa but applied for an ESTA 2 days later and got approved for the ESTA. (this however was 8 years ago) Was taken in to the little side room on entry into the US on every single visit from then on up until the last 2 and then my entry under K1 was the quickest i cleared customs in years.

Awesome. That's why I said "almost" because there are certainly exceptions to the norm, and there is no reason not to try still. 👍

 

Laugh was for the second part. haha

[carmel34 3,650]

1 hour ago, Hapyhands said:

To be clear, we are NOT trying to do anything illegal and yes we are romantic

So file a petition for a K-1 or get married somewhere outside the US and petition for a CR-1.  While waiting visit her in her country or somewhere outside the US you can both legally visit.  That's how we all do it.  Good luck!

[Helenlc 157]

26 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Awesome. That's why I said "almost" because there are certainly exceptions to the norm, and there is no reason not to try still. 👍

 

Laugh was for the second part. haha

Oh I know i was one of the lucky ones... and i didn't realise just how lucky at the time... but that mistake of applying for the tourist visa when i could have had an esta followed me for 8 years... every time i entered I was taken to the side room until actually we applied for the K1 Visa and then the 2 entries after that I wasn't I guess they thought if we had applied for the visa and started the process we would be less likely to do anything to risk that but that's just speculation on my part... but I know and realise Im the exception but people shouldn't give up hope... but in this case I'm guessing as they were denied the ESTA and a Visa its going to be more difficult from now on. 

 

oh and i guessed the laugh was for the second part 😛 

 

[JeanneAdil 6,606]

i just attended a wedding in Buffalo and a bunch of us decided to see Canadian Niagara Falls

We walked across the border

on the return,  3 of us were pulled aside for questioning

before i even got out my US passport (born here)  the border guard said i "looked too Canadian"   whatever that means

we carried on a serious and sometimes funny conversation after that with him explaining that "after the 9/11 incident and the men coming into the US thru Canada,  there is more security and more questions"

and we had walked thru same station just hours before 

 

I use to leave college after a late night out (while in college) and drive up to Canada for breakfast with no passport 

but those days are over