For 1 in 16 US women, their first experience with sexual intercourse was rape, study says

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

1 hour ago, laylalex said:

I like you, Nature Boy, so it makes me sad to see that you are dismissing pain like this, pain that I was open enough to talk a little about. I have spoken enough in your view about my ex and what he did to me in the past, how he affects me in the present. He is NOT a good person. Since I will respect you enough here not to go into detail, just know that spending YEARS being told that you have to do something you do not always want to do can have a very real effect on someone's self esteem and sense of self. If you asked him, he didn't do anything wrong, he just talked me into doing something I had consented to many times in the past, so what's the harm. Just because something is not in YOUR experience doesn't mean that harm isn't real.

 

Use of force can be physical or psychological.

I get told to do stuff I dont want to do all the time. Its called being married. I thru my manhood slash self esteem out a long time ago.

[laylalex 7,300]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I get told to do stuff I dont want to do all the time. Its called being married. I thru my manhood slash self esteem out a long time ago.

Well, there's a difference (and I feel like I have typed that phrase a bunch today) between doing the stuff you don't feel like doing in a marriage (chores, visiting in-laws, having to deal with the other person's annoying habits) and being coerced into having sex for the sake of the marriage or for procreation. I do stuff even now before I'm married to Alex that I don't feel like doing, like dealing with his crazy sister, or cleaning up his stuff, or reminding him to get his annual vision exam. None of that is particularly fun. Or the bigger work of what is this marriage going to look like, how are we going to avoid making the same mistakes we made in our previous marriages. That's hard and emotional stuff, and I am glad we're dealing with it up front now before we make it legal. But being told that when you signed up for marriage and you agreed to have kids, you know you have to do your duty.... yeah, that's different. Sorry, going to bow out of here now. This is a touchy subject for me.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, laylalex said:

Well, there's a difference (and I feel like I have typed that phrase a bunch today) between doing the stuff you don't feel like doing in a marriage (chores, visiting in-laws, having to deal with the other person's annoying habits) and being coerced into having sex for the sake of the marriage or for procreation. I do stuff even now before I'm married to Alex that I don't feel like doing, like dealing with his crazy sister, or cleaning up his stuff, or reminding him to get his annual vision exam. None of that is particularly fun. Or the bigger work of what is this marriage going to look like, how are we going to avoid making the same mistakes we made in our previous marriages. That's hard and emotional stuff, and I am glad we're dealing with it up front now before we make it legal. But being told that when you signed up for marriage and you agreed to have kids, you know you have to do your duty.... yeah, that's different. Sorry, going to bow out of here now. This is a touchy subject for me.

Having kids is rather expected when a couple chooses to come together.  I didn't realize how big of a deal this was in my previous marriages, but when it came time for my last marriage, I knew how big of a deal it can be to many women,  so I made it VERY clear on multiple occasions that if she wanted kids, I was NOT the guy for her.  I would think women typically want children more than men, but that is obviously not the case with you.  But in any case where one person wants kids and the other doesn't, a split seems pretty inevitable to me.  Whether or not it is realized in a timely manner, well, that is another topic altogether.

 

But back to sex as the topic... do you feel like sex is (or should be) expected in a long-term relationship? It almost sounds like you think it should not be.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I get told to do stuff I dont want to do all the time. Its called being married. I thru my manhood slash self esteem out a long time ago.

 

   Your wife tells you what to do for the same reason my wife tells me what to do. They love us, but they know we don't know what we are doing 80% of the time. She knows if you leaves you alone long enough, chances are high that you will get your fingers stuck in the toaster and hurt yourself. Or you will eat that greenish stuff that has been in the back of the fridge for 3 weeks just to see if it's still OK. She doesn't want you to do those things. Deep down, you know she is doing that for your benefit. I just don't see the correlation to the topic. 

[Ban Hammer 13,498]

39 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Your wife tells you what to do for the same reason my wife tells me what to do. They love us, but they know we don't know what we are doing 80% of the time. She knows if you leaves you alone long enough, chances are high that you will get your fingers stuck in the toaster and hurt yourself. Or you will eat that greenish stuff that has been in the back of the fridge for 3 weeks just to see if it's still OK. She doesn't want you to do those things. Deep down, you know she is doing that for your benefit. I just don't see the correlation to the topic. 

it's the matriarchy! 

[laylalex 7,300]

2 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

Having kids is rather expected when a couple chooses to come together.  I didn't realize how big of a deal this was in my previous marriages, but when it came time for my last marriage, I knew how big of a deal it can be to many women,  so I made it VERY clear on multiple occasions that if she wanted kids, I was NOT the guy for her.  I would think women typically want children more than men, but that is obviously not the case with you.  But in any case where one person wants kids and the other doesn't, a split seems pretty inevitable to me.  Whether or not it is realized in a timely manner, well, that is another topic altogether.

 

But back to sex as the topic... do you feel like sex is (or should be) expected in a long-term relationship? It almost sounds like you think it should not be.

My views evolved over time. When I got married, I was pretty certain I wanted to have children. As time went on, I wasn't so sure. Part of that had to do with my worries about my husband's character, and part of that was an awakening in myself that I just wasn't sure I wanted a child after all. When I expressed my ambivalence, I was told I was a liar who had tricked him into marriage. And yet... I loved him, and he said he loved me too, so I stayed. I thought I might eventually get around to accepting the idea of a child. He promised me that pregnancy would change my mind about motherhood. I wanted to keep him happy because I loved him, so I went along with things. Writing this is... well, it makes me look rather pathetic. I do realize this now, and I am not the same person I was over 2 years ago when everything blew apart. I genuinely thought that my role in the marriage was to do what it took to keep him happy, and my own wishes and hopes and thoughts were kind of secondary. 

 

I don't know where you get the idea that I think sex shouldn't be expected or desirable in a marriage or long-term relationship. I am a pro-sex person (ask my fiance!) and think it is (or should be) an expression of love and desire and attraction between partners. Do I have sex now when I'm not 100% "feeling" it? Sure, sometimes I'm tired or cranky or ate too much dinner or it's too hot in my studio. But so much of WHY I consent in those times is because the feeling of "sigh let's just get it over with" passes quickly. It has to do with who my partner is. I am happy and safe and receive unconditional love now. I couldn't always say the same in the past. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

16 hours ago, laylalex said:

My views evolved over time. When I got married, I was pretty certain I wanted to have children. As time went on, I wasn't so sure. Part of that had to do with my worries about my husband's character, and part of that was an awakening in myself that I just wasn't sure I wanted a child after all. When I expressed my ambivalence, I was told I was a liar who had tricked him into marriage. And yet... I loved him, and he said he loved me too, so I stayed. I thought I might eventually get around to accepting the idea of a child. He promised me that pregnancy would change my mind about motherhood. I wanted to keep him happy because I loved him, so I went along with things. Writing this is... well, it makes me look rather pathetic. I do realize this now, and I am not the same person I was over 2 years ago when everything blew apart. I genuinely thought that my role in the marriage was to do what it took to keep him happy, and my own wishes and hopes and thoughts were kind of secondary. 

 

I don't know where you get the idea that I think sex shouldn't be expected or desirable in a marriage or long-term relationship. I am a pro-sex person (ask my fiance!) and think it is (or should be) an expression of love and desire and attraction between partners. Do I have sex now when I'm not 100% "feeling" it? Sure, sometimes I'm tired or cranky or ate too much dinner or it's too hot in my studio. But so much of WHY I consent in those times is because the feeling of "sigh let's just get it over with" passes quickly. It has to do with who my partner is. I am happy and safe and receive unconditional love now. I couldn't always say the same in the past. 

You're not pathetic.  Many of us have been in your shoes, on one side or the other.  I didn't want kids in my previous marriage, and it came down to "either we have kids, or I will leave".  So... we had kids.  And years later, she left me for another guy.  I love my kids dearly, and now cannot imagine life without them.  But I often wonder what would have happened had I just divorced her when she gave me the ultimatum.  Water under the bridge, eh?

 

I asked that about sex because when younger,  boys often push girls to have sex.  I'm not talking coercion, or any kind of forceful encounters.  But I know I had to talk and talk and TALK my way into my first GFs panties.  Persuasion at its most persistent, for sure.  Finally, she gave in.  Was I wrong for being so pushy?  Today, I'd say yes.  And I'd tell the younger me that the juice isn't worth the squeeze.  But I wouldn't have listened back then,  and saw nothing wrong with what I was doing. 

 

Fast forward to marriage, and I'd say having sex is a requirement or obligation.  When both want it, great.  When one's libido is lagging, not so good.  But which way do you go then?  I say both ways.  Sometimes, if it's not your choice to have sex, but your spouse wants it, you should do it for them. (And hopefully find some pleasure yourself along the way.)  And other times, the person who wants it needs to relent and give the less-desiring spouse a break.  IOW, it's give and take all around.  Sometimes, even now, I have to "talk her into it".  Other times, I have to beg for a break.  And that keeps it from being boring.  At the end of the day, giving it up even when you're not in the mood can make your spouse feel like you care.  And said spouse will likely reciprocate.  

 

Again, I'm not talking about forcing each other; rather,  fulfilling the obligation of pleasuring another sexually, even if the level of horniness is not equal.  I feel like I owe her that, and if I am not willing to give it, then I can't realistically expect her to stay happy with me for very long.