Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

There is a case going on in Columbus where a Dr is charged with giving 30 or more non terminally ill patients lethal injections

[Steeleballz 7,550]

7 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

There is a case going on in Columbus where a Dr is charged with giving 30 or more non terminally ill patients lethal injections

 

   That was one of the cases I was thinking of. The worst part is there could be many more people who died because of this guy that they will never know about. Or other cases where doctors or medical personnel may have got away with it.  

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

6 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   That was one of the cases I was thinking of. The worst part is there could be many more people who died because of this guy that they will never know about. Or other cases where doctors or medical personnel may have got away with it.  

It has been well known in medical communities for years. That when patients are really at the close end and suffering,  Docs sometimes gave that little extra push of morphine. This was back in the say when docs made house calls and every drop of morphine was not accounted for.  50, 60, 70s type stuff. My dad was a country doctor 

 

Now we are talking a non ambulatory patient just days till the end 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

22 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

It has been well known in medical communities for years. That when patients are really at the close end and suffering,  Docs sometimes gave that little extra push of morphine. This was back in the say when docs made house calls and every drop of morphine was not accounted for.  50, 60, 70s type stuff. My dad was a country doctor 

 

Now we are talking a non ambulatory patient just days till the end 

 

   Lot's of things have changed since the 60's. Or even the 90's.

 

   In the case above, they did a medical assessment and found 5 of the patients had a significant chance of recovery if they were given adequate treatment. The other s were in bad shape, but you can't just dismiss them and say they were going to die anyway. That is not up to the physician. You do take an oath to do no harm.

 

   We also shouldn't be encouraging doctors to play God. Some of them have big enough ego's already. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     I've used and worked in healthcare both in the US and Canada. Your blanket statement is wrong. The government of Canada can regulate and control prices in ways that private insurers cannot. The end result is lower cost. The end result is not necessarily better healthcare, but our private health care system probably has the worst bang for the buck of any country with a similar level of treatment.

 

    I can't see anyone actually using health care in the USA and making a statement like that. The US healthcare system is set up to be a cash cow. Everybody wins. Except the patient. 

 

I will say two things on this topic.

 

1) I haven't heard of anyone in the US traveling to Canada and paying to see doctors out of their own pockets.  But Canadians DO come here for health care.

 

2) if you want to see government healthcare at its finest, examine the VA healthcare system.  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

It has been well known in medical communities for years. That when patients are really at the close end and suffering,  Docs sometimes gave that little extra push of morphine. This was back in the say when docs made house calls and every drop of morphine was not accounted for.  50, 60, 70s type stuff. My dad was a country doctor 

 

Now we are talking a non ambulatory patient just days till the end 

Back in the SAY, huh?  I think we are even.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

8 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I will say two things on this topic.

 

1) I haven't heard of anyone in the US traveling to Canada and paying to see doctors out of their own pockets.  But Canadians DO come here for health care.

 

2) if you want to see government healthcare at its finest, examine the VA healthcare system.  

 

     Why would anyone from the US travel to Canada for health care? It's not free for you. Barring some change since I was last there, they wouldn't even see you for routine care. They are not set up to do that. Regular doctors don't take cash. They don't have a billing department. They couldn't tell you how much a procedure costs if their life depended on it. If it was an emergency, you could go to ER. In the end,  you would still get a big bill. The bill would probably less than you would pay here, but without insurance to cover it, you likely would end up paying more.

 

   For some reason, there are a lot of people who think you can just show up somewhere in Canada and get free medical services. It doesn't work that way. They are usually in for a surprise. They often have a horror story to tell when they get back to the US. However, they are not the people you should be going to for an account of how the Canadian health care system works.  

 

     On the other hand, the US is a pay per use health care system. They don't care who you are, they care if you can pay. Canadians who can afford it and want to get seen faster certainly have the option to come to the US. Sometimes they do. 

 

    To your last point, the VA system should not be the model for how health care should be run. Nor does it have to be.

 

    

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     Why would anyone from the US travel to Canada for health care? It's not free for you. Barring some change since I was last there, they wouldn't even see you for routine care. They are not set up to do that. Regular doctors don't take cash. They don't have a billing department. They couldn't tell you how much a procedure costs if their life depended on it. If it was an emergency, you could go to ER. In the end,  you would still get a big bill. The bill would probably less than you would pay here, but without insurance to cover it, you likely would end up paying more.

 

   For some reason, there are a lot of people who think you can just show up somewhere in Canada and get free medical services. It doesn't work that way. They are usually in for a surprise. They often have a horror story to tell when they get back to the US. However, they are not the people you should be going to for an account of how the Canadian health care system works.  

 

     On the other hand, the US is a pay per use health care system. They don't care who you are, they care if you can pay. Canadians who can afford it and want to get seen faster certainly have the option to come to the US. Sometimes they do. 

 

    To your last point, the VA system should not be the model for how health care should be run. Nor does it have to be.

 

    

Thank you for backing me up 100%.  

 

As to the "how" of the VA... whether or not we like it, it IS how the US government runs healthcare.

[ADW & JOP 146]

5 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     Why would anyone from the US travel to Canada for health care? It's not free for you. Barring some change since I was last there, they wouldn't even see you for routine care. They are not set up to do that. Regular doctors don't take cash. They don't have a billing department. They couldn't tell you how much a procedure costs if their life depended on it. If it was an emergency, you could go to ER. In the end,  you would still get a big bill. The bill would probably less than you would pay here, but without insurance to cover it, you likely would end up paying more.

 

   For some reason, there are a lot of people who think you can just show up somewhere in Canada and get free medical services. It doesn't work that way. They are usually in for a surprise. They often have a horror story to tell when they get back to the US. However, they are not the people you should be going to for an account of how the Canadian health care system works.  

 

     On the other hand, the US is a pay per use health care system. They don't care who you are, they care if you can pay. Canadians who can afford it and want to get seen faster certainly have the option to come to the US. Sometimes they do. 

 

    To your last point, the VA system should not be the model for how health care should be run. Nor does it have to be.

 

    

This is not true. Canadian doctors can take cash if the patient is not covered by a provincial plan. They can also tell you how much they would charge you for a procedure. What they can't tell you is how much the final bill will be, as no one really knows the breakdown of cost for a hospital admission, investigations, etc.

 

If you are not covered by a provincial plan, cost for healthcare in Canada is comparable to the US.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, ALFKAD said:

Thank you for backing me up 100%.  

 

As to the "how" of the VA... whether or not we like it, it IS how the US government runs healthcare.

 

  Well I didn't disagree with you. As I said, the Canadian government does a more cost effective system of health care than the US system. I would certainly recommend the USA first if you are independently wealthy.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 minutes ago, ADW & JOP said:

This is not true. Canadian doctors can take cash if the patient is not covered by a provincial plan. They can also tell you how much they would charge you for a procedure. What they can't tell you is how much the final bill will be, as no one really knows the breakdown of cost for a hospital admission, investigations, etc.

 

If you are not covered by a provincial plan, cost for healthcare in Canada is comparable to the US.

 

  That's why I said barring some change since I was last there. We did not take cash when I worked in Canada, and we could not see patients without health coverage. There was an urgent care facility that could and we always referred patients there. This was in BC but it's been about 10 years. The trend was towards having more private options at that time, which is why I qualified that it may have changed since.

 

  I still would not recommend anyone from the USA go to Canada for specific treatment. It is not free for Canadians. It certainly won't be for an American who hasn't been paying for coverage.

 

  

[ADW & JOP 146]

 

7 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  That's why I said barring some change since I was last there. We did not take cash when I worked in Canada, and we could not see patients without health coverage. There was an urgent care facility that could and we always referred patients there. This was in BC but it's been about 10 years. The trend was towards having more private options at that time, which is why I qualified that it may have changed since.

 

  I still would not recommend anyone from the USA go to Canada for specific treatment. It is not free for Canadians. It certainly won't be for an American who hasn't been paying for coverage.

 

  

I can't speak for BC. But in Ontario, for over a decade, if it is not covered by OHIP, physicians can charge out-of-pocket. I do agree that non-residents of Canada, not covered by a provincial plan, would be surprised how much healthcare could cost in Canada.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

40 minutes ago, ADW & JOP said:

 

I can't speak for BC. But in Ontario, for over a decade, if it is not covered by OHIP, physicians can charge out-of-pocket. I do agree that non-residents of Canada, not covered by a provincial plan, would be surprised how much healthcare could cost in Canada.

 

  I can't really speak for BC now either, I guess, but it was off on a tangent anyway. I don't think the key issue is how much Americans pay for healthcare in Canada and vice versa. People like to bring up Canadians coming to the US for elective procedures, but the numbers are so small that it is insignificant. I am more concerned with what the cost of healthcare is for Canadians in Canada and what it is for Americans in the USA.  Personally, I never gave out of pocket healthcare costs a second thought in Canada. Here in the US, any procedure has the potential to turn into a billing nightmare. 

[TBoneTX 46,003]

16 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

you have to be very careful how you look at an advanced directive and what you put in it. Many people are pressured into signing these at stressful times, like right before surgery. It takes a lot more thought to come to some of those decisions than people are able to give at times like that.

Where's the +1,000 button?

Same goes for medical powers of attorney, and even Wills.  Draft/replace these things as a priority after a major life event (on VJ, marriage is probably chief) so that you have them before you need them in an emergency.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

18 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

I will say two things on this topic.

 

1) I haven't heard of anyone in the US traveling to Canada and paying to see doctors out of their own pockets.  But Canadians DO come here for health care.

 

2) if you want to see government healthcare at its finest, examine the VA healthcare system.  

I went back to work because the VA sucked so bad 

 

Now that my wife is going full time and I can get on her insurance for 20 bucks a month I may find a more honorable profession . Unions do serve a purpose, in my wifes case

Edited September 14, 2019 by Nature Boy 2.0