Dutch Woman With Dementia Euthanized Against Her Will. The Doctor Was Just Cleared Of Wrongdoing.

[Boiler 45,982]

I went Private a few times.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

In a government run system would you still have the option to do an out-of-pocket procedure?  In the NHS, that does not seem to be the case. 

 

   A two tier system is a simple enough concept. I don’t think there is really any aspect of health care where we would need to reinvent the wheel. There is a way. We are lacking the will.

[luckytxn 2,265]

30 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    The bureaucracy makes the decision now. We just call it insurance. Unless we are wealthy enough to pay out of pocket, any one of us can find ourselves at the mercy of a committee that decides our lives are no longer worth the cost of treatment.

Yeah but we choose that bureaucracy. With forced universal healthcare we don't but our babysitter Feds do.

[yuna628 9,700]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

In a government run system would you still have the option to do an out-of-pocket procedure?  In the NHS, that does not seem to be the case. 

It's my understanding that any person can seek out private treatment in the UK, provided they have the £. In some cases I'd imagine this would be preferable. Not sure what the costs are like under private care in the UK. I somehow imagine it is still cheaper than in the US.

[Dashinka 24,747]

2 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

It's my understanding that any person can seek out private treatment in the UK, provided they have the £. In some cases I'd imagine this would be preferable. Not sure what the costs are like under private care in the UK. I somehow imagine it is still cheaper than in the US.

I still remember the case of the infant with an issue where the NHS and UK government would not let the parents seek treatment outside the UK even though it would have been funded privately.  Seems to me that the NHS made that decision for the family.  Then of course there is Mick J. who came to the US for his heart valve replacement.

[yuna628 9,700]

13 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I still remember the case of the infant with an issue where the NHS and UK government would not let the parents seek treatment outside the UK even though it would have been funded privately.  Seems to me that the NHS made that decision for the family.  Then of course there is Mick J. who came to the US for his heart valve replacement.

Well that is, as you know a very complicated case. It's not one that I agree with of course, but there were a lot more factors at play than what was in the media. The NHS didn't make the decision, but the courts did. A lot of people come to the US and other countries seeking treatment instead of using the NHS.

 

My MiL got badly injured a couple weeks ago. They sent her home with a very poor stitch job and non-treated injuries. Had she been able to afford private, or been in the US, I'm confident she'd be well cared for immediately. She'll likely need some reconstructive surgery if they don't sit there and say ''oh well poor ol' gal.. it'll heal eventually lopsided and you'll live''. At this point they want her to come back sometime later to be re-examined and we're just here pulling our hair out so far away hoping they gave her a CT scan of the head.

Edited September 13, 2019 by yuna628

[Steeleballz 7,550]

24 minutes ago, luckytxn said:

Yeah but we choose that bureaucracy. With forced universal healthcare we don't but our babysitter Feds do.

 

    Ultimately, if my treatment was denied, I don't give a damn who the bureaucracy is making the decision. The main thing is they make that decision while I still have enough strength left to raise my boot up to ### level. 

 

   May just be me, but I'm slightly more skeptical of that bureaucracy when they are working for an employer who is solely in the business to make a profit by means of not paying for treatment. 

[luckytxn 2,265]

4 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Ultimately, if my treatment was denied, I don't give a damn who the bureaucracy is making the decision. The main thing is they make that decision while I still have enough strength left to raise my boot up to ### level. 

 

   May just be me, but I'm slightly more skeptical of that bureaucracy when they are working for an employer who is solely in the business to make a profit by means of not paying for treatment. 

That is on you then. I was a bureaucrat at both levels and trust me you don't want a government bureaucrat making decisions and especially anything having life and death decisions or quality of life. I can get a private bureaucrat to change in several ways any decision they make but there is a slim posibility you can get a government bureaucrat to change any decision.

 

Private companies are way more efficient at anything levels and anything over government. That is the reason that the so called Socialist countries in Europe have been moving their Social services to the private sector. You will get more for a cheaper price by going to companies over anything government. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, luckytxn said:

That is on you then. I was a bureaucrat at both levels and trust me you don't want a government bureaucrat making decisions and especially anything having life and death decisions or quality of life. I can get a private bureaucrat to change in several ways any decision they make but there is a slim posibility you can get a government bureaucrat to change any decision.

 

Private companies are way more efficient at anything levels and anything over government. That is the reason that the so called Socialist countries in Europe have been moving their Social services to the private sector. You will get more for a cheaper price by going to companies over anything government. 

 

     I've used and worked in healthcare both in the US and Canada. Your blanket statement is wrong. The government of Canada can regulate and control prices in ways that private insurers cannot. The end result is lower cost. The end result is not necessarily better healthcare, but our private health care system probably has the worst bang for the buck of any country with a similar level of treatment.

 

    I can't see anyone actually using health care in the USA and making a statement like that. The US healthcare system is set up to be a cash cow. Everybody wins. Except the patient. 

 

[luckytxn 2,265]

5 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     I've used and worked in healthcare both in the US and Canada. Your blanket statement is wrong. The government of Canada can regulate and control prices in ways that private insurers cannot. The end result is lower cost. The end result is not necessarily better healthcare, but our private health care system probably has the worst bang for the buck of any country with a similar level of treatment.

 

    I can't see anyone actually using health care in the USA and making a statement like that. The US healthcare system is set up to be a cash cow. Everybody wins. Except the patient. 

 

That is bull #######. And I think you know it and just stirring the pot. Oh well to each their own I guess. We will get what we deserve. If people prefer Socialists running things then I hope it comes soon so the misery can commence so I can start the, "I told you so's".

[Steeleballz 7,550]

Just now, luckytxn said:

That is bull #######. And I think you know it and just stirring the pot. Oh well to each their own I guess. We will get what we deserve. If people prefer Socialists running things then I hope it comes soon so the misery can commence so I can start the, "I told you so's".

 

    I don't need to stir the pot. Between you and me, only one of us has any real experience with the health care system in both countries and one of us is guessing.

[luckytxn 2,265]

4 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    I don't need to stir the pot. Between you and me, only one of us has any real experience with the health care system in both countries and one of us is guessing.

Not guessing. No government bureaucracy is more efficient than a private companies bureaucracy. And yes I have spent a lot of time in Canada and I remember their "free" healthcare very well. So you are saying that Canada's bureaucracy is efficient and less costly to run than  a companies? Please show us proof of that than just running your mouth . 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

7 minutes ago, luckytxn said:

Not guessing. No government bureaucracy is more efficient than a private companies bureaucracy. And yes I have spent a lot of time in Canada and I remember their "free" healthcare very well. So you are saying that Canada's bureaucracy is efficient and less costly to run than  a companies? Please show us proof of that than just running your mouth . 

 

   Since you're the one who actually said "Private companies are way more efficient at anything levels and anything over government.", you can bring the proof. I made no statement anywhere about efficiency.

 

  What I did respond to was your statement about private companies giving more fore a cheaper price. When it comes to health care, private companies certainly give more. That comes at an exponentially higher price.

 

  

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

20 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Have you somehow missed all the cases of this happening in the USA?

 

   I mean the doctors killing people obviously. At least they go to jail for it here.

Comparing this and a crime is quite a stretch

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Comparing this and a crime is quite a stretch

 

   A agree, not the same thing. I was mostly talking about the attitude. There are many doctors here who I would not trust to be on the other end of a lethal injection needle. 

 

   I guess what I was going for is there are some doctors who like to play God a little bit too much. And those doctors are dangerous in any kind of health care setting. We have had criminal cases here where doctors decided it was time for patients to check out permanently too.