Why Southern white women vote against feminism

[laylalex 7,285]

Quote

Southern white culture had long been a stronghold of traditional gender norms. In theory, the ideal Southern white woman was placed on a pedestal: financially supported, removed from the hardships of public life and protected from dangerous black men she was taught to fear. For poor and working-class white women, the pedestal and its protections were more aspirational than real, but the ideal was nonetheless powerful and pervasive in the South.

I saw this and I thought of the discussion we were having the other day about putting women on pedestals. I do think that the pedestal is a more of a cage than just protection, or at least I have found that to be the case in my life. I'm not sure what I think about what the author has to say here -- some of it seems a little too sweeping in its conclusions -- but the numbers were intriguing. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/09/10/why-southern-white-women-vote-against-feminism/

[Dashinka 24,512]

So this is a racial thing?

[Boris Farage 353]

I'll save everyone else the read: Liberal writer for liberal "newspaper" spins male chauvinist narrative, because she (yes, it's a female writer) cannot understand how strong, independent family-oriented conservative women can reach intelligent conclusions which go against the writer's own liberal biases.

[Dashinka 24,512]

12 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

I'll save everyone else the read: Liberal writer for liberal "newspaper" spins male chauvinist narrative, because she (yes, it's a female writer) cannot understand how strong, independent family-oriented conservative women can reach intelligent conclusions which go against the writer's own liberal biases.

For the MDL ("muddy ditch left" (c)) to say they are all inclusive and tolerant of everyone, they sure have a way with creating identity stereotypes.

 

[Boris Farage 353]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

For the MDL ("muddy ditch left" (c)) to say they are all inclusive and tolerant of everyone, they sure have a way with creating identity stereotypes.

 

That's their strategy. Whatever nefarious quality they exhibit, assign it to conservatives. Very Orwellian.

[Dashinka 24,512]

21 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

That's their strategy. Whatever nefarious quality they exhibit, assign it to conservatives. Very Orwellian.

No doubt, whatever narrative it takes, they will use it.  They used to push the all Trump voters are uneducated narrative for the longest time, and I expect that will come back when he is re-elected in 2020.

[TBoneTX 45,309]

Bitter Clingers

Deplorables

Stench of Walmart

-ists, -obes

White Supremacists

What else?

[laylalex 7,285]

Back to the article, the author says: 

Quote

The ERA, Schlafly insisted, would actually require women to put their children in government day care and put themselves on the front lines in warfare. Schlafly depicted feminism as a mandate and presented anti-feminism as a morally superior alternative.

Of course the first part of that was completely untrue -- and it's STILL untrue, but it's something that is still said about the ERA. The second part of that is the part that has had more traction, I think, over the years in American society -- "anti-feminism" as morally superior, somehow, to feminism. It is 100% possible to be feminine, and enjoy being a woman, a lady even , and still be a feminist. The ERA doesn't stop me from roasting chicken for dinner or dressing nicely or wearing makeup or arranging flowers. When you look at the very simple language of the ERA, it's hard to see exactly HOW it is so harmful to American society:

 

Quote

Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

What is so dangerous about that? How does supporting that somehow make me morally inferior? I do not want to be put on a pedestal -- I want to be on equal ground with men.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

12 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Back to the article, the author says: 

Of course the first part of that was completely untrue -- and it's STILL untrue, but it's something that is still said about the ERA. The second part of that is the part that has had more traction, I think, over the years in American society -- "anti-feminism" as morally superior, somehow, to feminism. It is 100% possible to be feminine, and enjoy being a woman, a lady even , and still be a feminist. The ERA doesn't stop me from roasting chicken for dinner or dressing nicely or wearing makeup or arranging flowers. When you look at the very simple language of the ERA, it's hard to see exactly HOW it is so harmful to American society:

 

What is so dangerous about that? How does supporting that somehow make me morally inferior? I do not want to be put on a pedestal -- I want to be on equal ground with men.

You can identify as morally inferior only if you agree with the sentiment. What I dislike about the feminist movement is it's disdain for what you identify as.acceptable, cooking, dress.and behavior. The extreme feminists I have met are those that espouse shapeless clothes, unwillingness to accept dissenting opinion even amongst her "sisters". The most aggressive feminist i.kmow laments the lack of masculinity in her partner who she has effectively emasculated since they've been together, telling his friends he needs to man-up or nut-ip. She does enjoy the perks of chauvanist behavior, will pause at a door until a man opens it for her, will step around a man to grab the last seat, never reached for her own wallet when together with other couples. Guess being feminine is ok when it suits you.

[yuna628 9,676]

4 hours ago, Randyandyuni said:

You can identify as morally inferior only if you agree with the sentiment. What I dislike about the feminist movement is it's disdain for what you identify as.acceptable, cooking, dress.and behavior. The extreme feminists I have met are those that espouse shapeless clothes, unwillingness to accept dissenting opinion even amongst her "sisters". The most aggressive feminist i.kmow laments the lack of masculinity in her partner who she has effectively emasculated since they've been together, telling his friends he needs to man-up or nut-ip. She does enjoy the perks of chauvanist behavior, will pause at a door until a man opens it for her, will step around a man to grab the last seat, never reached for her own wallet when together with other couples. Guess being feminine is ok when it suits you.

How do we define what is being feminine though? Women can be all sorts... from girly girls in heels and dresses, to women who enjoy traditional roles of homemaker, to tom-boys climbing trees, working on cars, or loving motorcycles, to women who enjoy the challenge of academia or science, to career women, to a mix of everything.

 

To me a feminist is whatever she wants herself to be and not what other people think she should be on either side. I don't like to be dictated how I should look or dress, or that I should cook for my husband every day. On the flip side I also don't want to be dictated to that I should burn my bra, eschew a beautiful pair of heels, and have my husband do everything. I cook for my husband because I genuinely enjoy it. I like beautiful clothes and shoes because I just do. I am just as comfortable in a dress as I am in jean or leggings. I like a man to be a helpmate and not a layabout. And I will open a door for a man if I feel like, not because of any gender role, but because it is a polite thing to do.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

On 9/13/2019 at 8:32 AM, Boris Farage said:

I'll save everyone else the read: Liberal writer for liberal "newspaper" spins male chauvinist narrative, because she (yes, it's a female writer) cannot understand how strong, independent family-oriented conservative women can reach intelligent conclusions which go against the writer's own liberal biases.

No bother. I got this far and realized it was racist sewer trash. "  , removed from the hardships of public life and protected from dangerous black men she was taught to fear"

 

In fact I fins it offensive as it  stereotypes a broad demographic with absurd stereotypes 

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

19 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

How do we define what is being feminine though? Women can be all sorts... from girly girls in heels and dresses, to women who enjoy traditional roles of homemaker, to tom-boys climbing trees, working on cars, or loving motorcycles, to women who enjoy the challenge of academia or science, to career women, to a mix of everything.

 

To me a feminist is whatever she wants herself to be and not what other people think she should be on either side. I don't like to be dictated how I should look or dress, or that I should cook for my husband every day. On the flip side I also don't want to be dictated to that I should burn my bra, eschew a beautiful pair of heels, and have my husband do everything. I cook for my husband because I genuinely enjoy it. I like beautiful clothes and shoes because I just do. I am just as comfortable in a dress as I am in jean or leggings. I like a man to be a helpmate and not a layabout. And I will open a door for a man if I feel like, not because of any gender role, but because it is a polite thing to do.

I used laylalex's terminology to define femininity, I don't have.the parts or experienced to.fefine what is and isn't feminine. I agree manners are not dictated by sex but have a basis in basic manners

[laylalex 7,285]

6 hours ago, Randyandyuni said:

You can identify as morally inferior only if you agree with the sentiment. What I dislike about the feminist movement is it's disdain for what you identify as.acceptable, cooking, dress.and behavior. The extreme feminists I have met are those that espouse shapeless clothes, unwillingness to accept dissenting opinion even amongst her "sisters". The most aggressive feminist i.kmow laments the lack of masculinity in her partner who she has effectively emasculated since they've been together, telling his friends he needs to man-up or nut-ip. She does enjoy the perks of chauvanist behavior, will pause at a door until a man opens it for her, will step around a man to grab the last seat, never reached for her own wallet when together with other couples. Guess being feminine is ok when it suits you.

You know, I live in one of the most liberal parts of America and I have yet to mix with any of these feminists -- and I'm a member of a feminist reading group! I do know they exist, they just aren't the ones that I'm around. I'm a girly girl, I know, but I have found this accepted without any disdain by the women in my group. I also don't try to emasculate my partner (I won't use the "F" word, since I think that triggers Nature Boy ) because I happen to LIKE that he's a man. While he's not as aggressively chivalrous as my former partner (won't use the "E" word, for similar reasons I avoid the "F" word), who had to open every door for me and walk on the outside of every curb and pull out every chair like I was some infirm child, he is polite and invariably kind to children, the elderly, wait staff and animals (not that animals should be lumped in with humans but... it does say something about a person).

 

Sorry, I digress, and in the way I have been criticized for before. I apologize. Anyway, what I meant to say is that in my own experience, everyday feminism is a lot less superficially radical than the uber-feminists with shaggy underarms. It's about making society welcoming to women of all walks and appearances and ambitions. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

1 hour ago, laylalex said:

You know, I live in one of the most liberal parts of America and I have yet to mix with any of these feminists -- and I'm a member of a feminist reading group! I do know they exist, they just aren't the ones that I'm around. I'm a girly girl, I know, but I have found this accepted without any disdain by the women in my group. I also don't try to emasculate my partner (I won't use the "F" word, since I think that triggers Nature Boy ) because I happen to LIKE that he's a man. While he's not as aggressively chivalrous as my former partner (won't use the "E" word, for similar reasons I avoid the "F" word), who had to open every door for me and walk on the outside of every curb and pull out every chair like I was some infirm child, he is polite and invariably kind to children, the elderly, wait staff and animals (not that animals should be lumped in with humans but... it does say something about a person).

 

Sorry, I digress, and in the way I have been criticized for before. I apologize. Anyway, what I meant to say is that in my own experience, everyday feminism is a lot less superficially radical than the uber-feminists with shaggy underarms. It's about making society welcoming to women of all walks and appearances and ambitions. 

you are fixated on your ex.. just saying

[laylalex 7,285]

53 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

you are fixated on your ex.. just saying

Well, I'm not the one who said "ex"!  

 

If I do, it's just that we had a particularly difficult relationship, one in which I was so used to deferring to whatever he said, and using his opinion as the yardstick by which I measured just about everything. He was, as they say, my Alpha and Omega. I forgot my own voice and my own words and thoughts and feelings -- I'm in the process even now of regaining them. So when your life is full up with one person, and his thoughts and wishes and desires, for so very long, it is hard to unlearn the habit of thinking what would he do, or say, or want in any given situation.  It doesn't help that he interferes in my life and my fiance's life. He's mad at us both. I can honestly say that a love triangle is not a good place to find oneself in, even if one member has been shut out. 😕