Bad AOS interview experience

[SafeTravels 42]

Hi,
I'm mostly just posting to get an indication of whether our experience was normal or whether we got a particularly aggressive agent.
I came in on K1 last autumn and we married immediately before buying a house together in the spring. We had the deed for the house as part of two binders full of evidence of bona fide marriage, but the agent was unhappy that I wasn't also on the mortgage, he didn't seem to be swayed by the fact that any recent immigrant has no credit history and thus won't be able to co-apply for a mortgage. He said that he would have liked to have seen evidence of me paying my wife back for my half of the mortgage, something which we of course had not considered to bring, given that plenty marriages do not split housing costs 50/50 and that  finances between us are private, not very clearly organised and full of in jokes as venmo payment descriptions etc.

He also wanted to see the joint rental agreement for the apartment we had before bought the house, something which only exists online and which we had not printed off because we instead brought an actual letter from the rental company with both of our names instead.

 

Aside from this, we had joint tax returns from 2018 (he wanted to see 2019 even though it's impossible to have that already), joint gas/electricity/water/internet bills, life insurance and health insurance (he didn't understand that these were part of the same document, and would have preferred home insurance??) Photos of us together with friends and family as well as congratulatory wedding cards which he wasn't interested in.

He also wanted to see joint paperwork for our rescue dog, something which we also had not considered, but did not put both of our names on at the time as we would have only done so for artificial USCIS purposes regardless.

"All this" lead to a great amount of suspicion from him and he interviewed us separately. When I couldn't remember whether the last restaurant visit we made to was on a weekend or a weekday he asked if I had a disability or was taking any drugs which would impede my memory. I was forced to tell him that I just don't have the strongest memory about dates but that I could tell him a million things about my life with my wife. I wish I could have asked him exactly when he last went to a restaurant. We prepped so many questions together but it seems like they want you to have a photographic memory of everything you have done in the last two years. The interviews continued in a very accusatory tone, he wanted exact dates for parental visits, argued with us about what counts as the last holiday and seemed dismayed that we didn't celebrate the 4th of July or Memorial day.

At the end he said he was putting it down as an RFE. The only documentation we can send in at this point is the rental agreement for the apartment. The mortgage and the dog adoption papers only have my wife's name on them. Is the rental agreement going to convince USCIS in a way that all of our other evidence didn't?

The whole thing was hostile. I thought that if you have a legit marriage and you do reasonable prep, you have nothing to worry about. Now my future here is in question, while I continue to live my life as a loving husband following all of the rules set out for me in this country. For the record, I am 28 and she is 25, we both went to college for arts subjects, both speak English, both have similar tastes and lifestyles. The only categorical difference between us is race.

TL;DR: Am I over-sensitive or was my interviewer really hostile?
 

[Lemonslice 4,715]

Even if it's a string on Venmo payments, why not send them to show how finances are handled between you two?  Make a document to summarize withdrawals in ones account/deposits to the other, and so on. 

 

Any will, or living will?  Who's the beneficiary on your accounts (savings/checking/investments, etc.).  

 

[Allaboutwaiting 2,503]

From all I've read around the forum, it sounds pretty hostile to me. 

Not every interviewing officer is friendly, but the one that interviewed you both, sounds pretty aggressive based on what you just shared. Being interviewed separately means he might have some serious suspicions. 

 

Now, on another note, you say finances between you and your wife are private. Unfortunately, for immigration purposes, they're not. 

I understand it is very uncomfortable, but in this case, it is what they value the most: how you both handle money as a couple. 

 

For the RFE, you can include information from any shared membership, joint credit card, joint bank account; you could also include documents on you being the beneficiary for your wife's 401k. 

[Pitaya 2,577]

47 minutes ago, SafeTravels said:

TL;DR: Am I over-sensitive or was my interviewer really hostile?
 

Sorry to hear of your less-than-stellar AOS interview. We also had an AOS interview from hell, just from a bit different angle. It sounds like the IO had a bit of an ax to grind, and you two were the closest grinding stones. Upon reflection of our own messy interview, he claimed that he had only been given our file 10 minutes before the interview, and then tried to make it our problem. Which eventually it was. Enough of that ancient history.

 

His job is to probe and question, in a relatively short period of time whether your relationship is real and not a sham. Sounds like he was trying the good cop, bad cop routine, without the good cop. Not much you can do with that, except roll with the punches, and it sounds like that is what you did.

 

It sounds like the two of you were kind of short on the "marriage bonafides." That screwball USCIS-speak term, which to them means enough of the frilly curtains around the windows, and enough pickets on the white picket fence to satisfy the bureaucratic notion of what a live, real marriage looks like. Anyway, it sounds like on this part, you guys were not prepared. You have to come up with as much joint married things as your can, deeds, bills, joint accounts, account beneficiaries, etc....you know what I am talking about. The notion of obtaining wills, powers of attorney, durable wills is a very good bonafide, not only for now, but also in the future. 

 

Good luck on getting as many marriage bonafides to satisfy the bureaucrat.

 

[SafeTravels 42]

30 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

Even if it's a string on Venmo payments, why not send them to show how finances are handled between you two?  Make a document to summarize withdrawals in ones account/deposits to the other, and so on. 

 

Any will, or living will?  Who's the beneficiary on your accounts (savings/checking/investments, etc.).  

I imagine we will end up sending venmo payments, printouts of our (haphazardly organised) finances spreadsheet. We haven't written wills yet but we can, same thing for making each other beneficiaries. Does it even count if it's done after an RFE though? None of these things are intrinsic to marriage, yet we're being pushed by USCIS to do them artificially, which is more reminiscent of a fraudulent relationship anyway!

 

32 minutes ago, Allaboutwaiting said:

Now, on another note, you say finances between you and your wife are private. Unfortunately, for immigration purposes, they're not. 

I understand it is very uncomfortable, but in this case, it is what they value the most: how you both handle money as a couple. 

I get that, what I meant by private was that it's "documented" in a way that was never intended for other people to have to understand, it's just for our personal reference. I don't know if changing that after the fact will still count as evidence.

 

34 minutes ago, Allaboutwaiting said:

For the RFE, you can include information from any shared membership, joint credit card, joint bank account; you could also include documents on you being the beneficiary for your wife's 401k. 

We don't have any joint checking accounts or credit cards, no need for them, happily married and financially functional without them. Are we supposed to inorganically create unused accounts just for the purposes of USCIS? To reiterate, we already had 2 binders of evidence.

 

4 minutes ago, Pitaya said:

deeds, bills, joint accounts, account beneficiaries

check, check, check (savings), negative.

 

5 minutes ago, Pitaya said:

The notion of obtaining wills, powers of attorney, durable wills is a very good bonafide, not only for now, but also in the future. 

 

This is what we'll do while we wait for the RFE to come though I suppose.


Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Just a very upsetting day.

[Crazy Cat 41,290]

1 minute ago, SafeTravels said:

I get that, what I meant by private was that it's "documented" in a way that was never intended for other people to have to understand, it's just for our personal reference. I don't know if changing that after the fact will still count as evidence.

 

Your life is under a microscope, to a degree, until you get a 10 year Green Card........and even longer if you apply for US citizenship.......making USCIS's job easier pays off..........

[SafeTravels 42]

2 minutes ago, missileman said:

Your life is under a microscope, to a degree, until you get a 10 year Green Card........and even longer if you apply for US citizenship.......making USCIS's job easier pays off..........

It's pretty dystopian. We already do so many things just to please USCIS while trying to live normal lives. I guess it wasn't enough.

[Allaboutwaiting 2,503]

2 minutes ago, SafeTravels said:

We don't have any joint checking accounts or credit cards, no need for them, happily married and financially functional without them.

I guess you have separate accounts. No need to make a joint one, but you can name each other beneficiary in case of death. It would be useful for the RFE and also a very important thing to do for the future. 

[Pitaya 2,577]

10 minutes ago, SafeTravels said:

It's pretty dystopian. We already do so many things just to please USCIS while trying to live normal lives. I guess it wasn't enough.

You can call it whatever your heart desires. The reality is that this whole scenario is run by them. As in a ball game, it is their field, their ball, their rules. We all volunteered for this, now we have to play the game their way. 

[Pitaya 2,577]

24 minutes ago, SafeTravels said:

 

check, check, check (savings), negative.

 

This is what we'll do while we wait for the RFE to come though I suppose.


Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Just a very upsetting day.

How well I recall how we felt after being pulled through the knot hole at the Seattle Field Office. We didn't get an RFE, we got a "wait and see," even worse in my thinking. At least with an RFE, you have a definite check list to rectify.  We had our AOS interview the Monday before Thanksgiving (another US holiday you may or may not celebrate  ). The IO indicated that he would contact me within 10-14 days....what a downer !!! You can read the review in our timeline. 

 

You will be OK, get a good night's sleep. Dust yourself off, and fight for your new family.

[Lemonslice 4,715]

3 hours ago, SafeTravels said:

I imagine we will end up sending venmo payments, printouts of our (haphazardly organised) finances spreadsheet. We haven't written wills yet but we can, same thing for making each other beneficiaries. Does it even count if it's done after an RFE though? None of these things are intrinsic to marriage, yet we're being pushed by USCIS to do them artificially, which is more reminiscent of a fraudulent relationship anyway!

 

I get that, what I meant by private was that it's "documented" in a way that was never intended for other people to have to understand, it's just for our personal reference. I don't know if changing that after the fact will still count as evidence.

 

We don't have any joint checking accounts or credit cards, no need for them, happily married and financially functional without them. Are we supposed to inorganically create unused accounts just for the purposes of USCIS? To reiterate, we already had 2 binders of evidence.

Husband and myself had no intentions of ever getting married, but it was the most realistic solution to be together.  Happy 11 years now

 

No need to force yourself to do things you don't want, but sometimes the easiest solution is to adopt the most common/expected way to do things.  You will have to remove conditions in about 2 years, and resubmit very similar documents (with an emphasis on the comingling of finances), so you might start a Venmo tracking sheet and do your own monthly reports, or open a joint account and pay some bills from there. No good or bad way to do it, but I'm lazy, so we had a joint account until the 10-year card. 

 

Wills, living wills,  setting each other as beneficiaries, those can be important things also, not only for USCIS, but in life. 

 

Best of luck! 

[Wuozopo 4,291]

7 hours ago, SafeTravels said:

I'm mostly just posting to get an indication of whether our experience was normal or whether we got a particularly aggressive agent.

I'll go with aggressive. Yours is the second Philly interview I heard that was rough. 

 

7 hours ago, SafeTravels said:

Aside from this, we had joint tax returns from 2018 (he wanted to see 2019

Seriously? He sounds a little out of it.

 

i guess I empathize with you somewhat because, good Lord if somebody asked me a specific date or a phone number without my 📱 iPhone. And I completely understand not being on the mortgage. We did the same when we bought a new house and I didn't even get on the deed. 

 

Good luck. 

[Ash.1101 1,755]

14 hours ago, SafeTravels said:

None of these things are intrinsic to marriage, yet we're being pushed by USCIS to do them artificially, which is more reminiscent of a fraudulent relationship anyway!

 

 

Basically yes. Some people get by with what you have, but like others said they usually come with things like spread sheets and such, they usually come with a lot of back up documents showing why they aren't living the cookie cutter life.

Normally K-1 to AOS interviews aren't that bad, but the longer you're married the more they expect of you and it sounds like Philly just is angry overall!

When it comes to immigration, if it's possible for you to fit their cookie cutter idea of what a marriage is and it takes slightly less work to do it and doesn't hurt your relationship, then just do it. 

The same things may come up at the ROC interview.

[Crazy Cat 41,290]

16 hours ago, SafeTravels said:

he didn't seem to be swayed by the fact that any recent immigrant has no credit history and thus won't be able to co-apply for a mortgage.

Actually, a new immigrant can have established credit within 3 or 4 months of arriving.  My wife arrived here in late June 2017.  I  added her to a credit card.  By October, she had a an excellent credit score and a credit report.  Then, when we bought our new home in early/mid 2018, we jointly applied for our mortgage.   Now, her name appears on both the property deed and the mortgage.  Having said that, I will admit that it takes a lot of conscious pre-planning.......

Hopefully, you will be able to clearly demonstrate a great deal of joint financial responsibility sharing by the time you file for Removal of Conditions.

Edited August 22, 2019 by missileman

[Ash.1101 1,755]

5 minutes ago, missileman said:

Actually, a new immigrant can have established credit withing 3 or 4 months of arriving.  My wife arrived here in late June 2017.  I  added her to a credit card.  By October, she had a an excellent credit score and a credit report.  Then, when we bought our new home in early/mid 2018, we jointly applied for our mortgage.   Now, her name appears on both the property deed and the mortgage.  Having said that, I will admit that it takes a lot of conscious pre-planning.......

Hopefully, you will be able to clearly demonstrate a great deal of joint financial responsibility sharing by the time you file for Removal of Conditions.

Yeah my husband arrived in Dec 2015, married Feb 2016, and prolly could have gotten a card by the summer but waited to get one in Oct 2016. 

The bank just issued the credit card based on our bank account, which he had been on since 2015. But it may be harder if accounts aren't shared.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Ash.