Am I still responsible I-864 - ex getting married

[HRQX 4,145]

48 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

If they both worked during 5 years of their marriage, she would KNOW that.

Not per SSA Program Operations Manual System's Qualifying Quarter section: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500502135 "a spouse(s) (as defined in SI 00501.150B.1. and developed per SI 00502.145) during their marriage if the marriage continues or the spouse is deceased."

[geowrian 22,337]

15 minutes ago, HRQX said:

Not per SSA Program Operations Manual System's Qualifying Quarter section: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500502135 "a spouse(s) (as defined in SI 00501.150B.1. and developed per SI 00502.145) during their marriage if the marriage continues or the spouse is deceased."

"Double stacking" can still apply so long as still married at the time the credits could have been claimed. See, for example, DAVIS v DAVIS: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/oh-court-of-appeals/1606642.html

Quick summary: they were married in 1999. They got a legal separation in 2004. His I-864 obligation was deemed to have ended in 2005 (because they were still married - not legally divorced yet) due to double stacking.

Yeah, it's a bit weird as the SS program doesn't let the beneficiary actually claim the credits once divorced, but the I-864 was deemed satisfied as they could have been able to claim it at that time.

 

Some interesting lines:

"Further, even if the maximum number of quarters earned by an immigrant cannot exceed four, the immigrant, at least under circumstances such as the ones currently before us, can be credited with additional qualifying quarters of coverage from his or her spouse."

" Applicable federal law provides that once the immigrant can be credited with more than 40 qualifying hours of work, the Affidavit of Support terminates by operation of law. See 8 U.S.C. 1183a(a)(3); 8 C.F.R. 213a.2. "

 

Edit: Also, see the CA case of Gross v. Gross

Edited August 19, 2019 by geowrian

[payxibka 10,045]

19 minutes ago, HRQX said:

Not per SSA Program Operations Manual System's Qualifying Quarter section: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500502135 "a spouse(s) (as defined in SI 00501.150B.1. and developed per SI 00502.145) during their marriage if the marriage continues or the spouse is deceased."

In the same vein we don't quote a uscis manual when dealing with DOS policy.  SSA policy has no authority on Uscis policy 

[HRQX 4,145]

18 minutes ago, geowrian said:

" Applicable federal law provides that once the immigrant can be credited with more than 40 qualifying hours of work, the Affidavit of Support terminates by operation of law. See 8 U.S.C. 1183a(a)(3); 8 C.F.R. 213a.2. "

At the time of OP's divorce the I-864 obligation was still in effect:

5 hours ago, RCable said:

My ex entered the country in October 2011 on the IR-1. We were legally married until August 2016.

Significant difference to Davis v. Davis

Edited August 19, 2019 by HRQX

[geowrian 22,337]

43 minutes ago, HRQX said:

At the time of OP's divorce the I-864 obligation was still in effect:

Significant difference to Davis v. Davis

I wasn't referring to this case in particular...sorry if that wasn't clear! (I lost track of the timeline).

It's a bit hard to say how it works in this case, actually.  It appears they did not work for 5 years (or more precisely, earn 4 SS credits each for 5 years).

However, the beneficiary could have earned 4 full quarters in 2011 alone, and count the 4 from the spouse still. And would they be able to count all 4 each again well before they got divorced in 2016 (or could it only be "claimed" after the year? idk the answer to this)? So there is potential still...but I would not want to have to argue about when exactly credits are credited, and how that applies to double stacking. Just some food for thought.

Edited August 19, 2019 by geowrian

[Nitas_man 3,100]

12 hours ago, pushbrk said:

This is the correct explanation as to the sponsor's "responsibility" but unless she KNOWS 1, 3, 4, or 5 above is correct, she will still count him on her I-864, as she is to list anybody she sponsored who is currently an LPR.  She could MENTION in the additional information section that he has 40 quarters of work already, if she knows that.  If they both worked during 5 years of their marriage, she would KNOW that.

Would the 40 quarters not be satisfied after a 10 year marriage assuming one or both were working?

[pushbrk 12,883]

2 hours ago, Nitas_man said:

Would the 40 quarters not be satisfied after a 10 year marriage assuming one or both were working?

Not an expert on that.  If both work for 5 years, that's 40.   The other combinations are not in my knowledge set.  I'm just saying that satisfying 40 quarters does not keep them from entering the previously sponsored person as part of the household count, because one must interpret the question literally and answer accurately.

 

[Nitas_man 3,100]

11 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

Not an expert on that.  If both work for 5 years, that's 40.   The other combinations are not in my knowledge set.  I'm just saying that satisfying 40 quarters does not keep them from entering the previously sponsored person as part of the household count, because one must interpret the question literally and answer accurately.

 

It was my understanding that the credits attributed from a spouse reset to zero if the marriage does not last 10 years.

Not applicable to this case.  

 

It is plausible based on how credits are earned that an immigrant can run up 40 credits in <10 actual years based on 4 credits equivalent income part year 1 and part year 10, which would then satisfy the affidavit requirements.

 

The SS marriage requirement for earned credits from a spouse is 10 full years and appears to be all or nothing.

 

In our case (13 years) we are hitting the additional 5-yr physical presence rule - so my wife isn’t eligible on my record for another year (well part of a year).

 

OP is in a gray area and I believe correct in listing previous spouse as a sponsored immigrant.

[geowrian 22,337]

14 minutes ago, Nitas_man said:

It was my understanding that the credits attributed from a spouse reset to zero if the marriage does not last 10 years.

Not applicable to this case.

To use them for SS purposes, yes.

For I-864 purposes, no (see Davis v Davis referenced above).

 

Edit: Once the 40 claim can be reached, the I-864 obligation terminates, even if the ability to claim all 40+ credits later goes away.

Edited August 19, 2019 by geowrian

[Mezyan 149]

Out of curiosity, how does one find out when the obligation terminates? I'm guessing this isn't something an individual is notified of.

[Boiler 45,499]

12 minutes ago, Mezyan said:

Out of curiosity, how does one find out when the obligation terminates? I'm guessing this isn't something an individual is notified of.

Correct

[Nitas_man 3,100]

6 hours ago, geowrian said:

To use them for SS purposes, yes.

For I-864 purposes, no (see Davis v Davis referenced above).

 

Edit: Once the 40 claim can be reached, the I-864 obligation terminates, even if the ability to claim all 40+ credits later goes away.

Clear

 

Appreciate the link.  Rarely comes up and I dont recall ever seeing it clarified here.

[andyd85 0]

On 8/18/2019 at 8:51 PM, geowrian said:

"Double stacking" can still apply so long as still married at the time the credits could have been claimed. See, for example, DAVIS v DAVIS: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/oh-court-of-appeals/1606642.html

Quick summary: they were married in 1999. They got a legal separation in 2004. His I-864 obligation was deemed to have ended in 2005 (because they were still married - not legally divorced yet) due to double stacking.

Yeah, it's a bit weird as the SS program doesn't let the beneficiary actually claim the credits once divorced, but the I-864 was deemed satisfied as they could have been able to claim it at that time.

 

Some interesting lines:

"Further, even if the maximum number of quarters earned by an immigrant cannot exceed four, the immigrant, at least under circumstances such as the ones currently before us, can be credited with additional qualifying quarters of coverage from his or her spouse."

" Applicable federal law provides that once the immigrant can be credited with more than 40 qualifying hours of work, the Affidavit of Support terminates by operation of law. See 8 U.S.C. 1183a(a)(3); 8 C.F.R. 213a.2. "

 

Edit: Also, see the CA case of Gross v. Gross

Hello Geowrian, 
I dont understand what is meant by the  phrase "credits could have been claimed" . could you please further elaborate on this?  Thank you.

[geowrian 22,337]

41 minutes ago, andyd85 said:

Hello Geowrian, 
I dont understand what is meant by the  phrase "credits could have been claimed" . could you please further elaborate on this?  Thank you.

There are cases where, for example, a spouse's SS credits could be claimed (alongside one's own, if any) as their own.

 

For example, say you worked for 5 years and earned 20 SS credits. You have also been married for those same 5 years and your spouse also earned 20 SS credits. It would be possible for you to claim all 40 SS credits for the purposes of the I-864 due to double stacking.

For actual SS purposes, this does not apply if one divorces - you can only claim your own earned credits. But since you could have claimed them at one point in time, it meets the I-864 requirements.

[andyd85 0]

1 hour ago, geowrian said:

There are cases where, for example, a spouse's SS credits could be claimed (alongside one's own, if any) as their own.

 

For example, say you worked for 5 years and earned 20 SS credits. You have also been married for those same 5 years and your spouse also earned 20 SS credits. It would be possible for you to claim all 40 SS credits for the purposes of the I-864 due to double stacking.

For actual SS purposes, this does not apply if one divorces - you can only claim your own earned credits. But since you could have claimed them at one point in time, it meets the I-864 requirements.

Thank you that makes it much clearer. I was wondering, how do you claim the credits while married? Using the example you mentioned above, lets say due to combining we have 40 total and we are still married. How do I notify USCIS that the contract is terminated? Must I do something to ensure I have claimed the credits. OR is it that if i divorce afterwards and my spouse wants to sue me I just bring up this defense in court. I was also wondering how would the government know we have satisfied the 40 due to double stacking? Lets say the government wants to sue me for medicaid use, would I go to court again and present the double stacking defense?