k1 visa vietnam red flag only 4 months before getting engaged

[axlaxl 0]

Hi,

I'm a new VJ member and I already submitted k1 paperwork for my fiancee in Vietnam.  Please look at my general timeline below before I pose the questions:

 

*Nov 2, 2018: Divorce filed, I'm the primary custodian of my son

*Dec 1, 2018: Met my fiancee online through a mutual friend on facebook

*January 24, 2019: First meeting in person with fiancee in VN, trip is 2 weeks long

*April 10, 2019: Divorce decree received

*April 20, 2019: Second trip, 3 weeks long, Engagement Ceremony, my dad traveled with me on this trip for the ceremony

*July 10, 2019: Third trip, 2 weeks long, my son traveled with me on this trip

*August 10, 2019: K1 petition filed

 

My fiancee is also a single mom with a kid.  She had her divorce decree in mid 2017.

 

Pictures, documents, and all related evidences were collected in an orderly fashion.  Narrative of evolution of relationship and timeline for all places we traveled during those 3 trips are also included.

I'm quite nervous about the consular phase since I know USCIS will approve this petition easily based on the overwhelming evidences I provided.  My reasons for the nervousness are as follows:

1/met someone online only 1 month after divorce filed

2/met my fiancee in person too soon after knowing her on facebook

2/had an engagement ceremony too soon only 10 days after receiving divorce decree, 4 months after only seeing my fiancee for 2 weeks on first trip

3/filed K1 petition too soon only after 8 months of romance

 

My question is that based on the timeline I provided above, will my 3 short trips (3 trips total of 7 weeks in vn) which prompted me to file the K1 petition serve as red flags in the eyes of the CO in Vietnam?  If the timeline does serve as red flag, how should I correct it?  Should I be worried about this?  I plan to make 2 more trips after submitting K1 petition and before scheduling for interview in the future.  Any input is welcome and appreciated.  Thanks. 

[mniceguy16 187]

Just now, axlaxl said:

Hi,

I'm a new VJ member and I already submitted k1 paperwork for my fiancee in Vietnam.  Please look at my general timeline below before I pose the questions:

 

*Nov 2, 2018: Divorce filed, I'm the primary custodian of my son

*Dec 1, 2018: Met my fiancee online through a mutual friend on facebook

*January 24, 2019: First meeting in person with fiancee in VN, trip is 2 weeks long

*April 10, 2019: Divorce decree received

*April 20, 2019: Second trip, 3 weeks long, Engagement Ceremony, my dad traveled with me on this trip for the ceremony

*July 10, 2019: Third trip, 2 weeks long, my son traveled with me on this trip

*August 10, 2019: K1 petition filed

 

My fiancee is also a single mom with a kid.  She had her divorce decree in mid 2017.

 

Pictures, documents, and all related evidences were collected in an orderly fashion.  Narrative of evolution of relationship and timeline for all places we traveled during those 3 trips are also included.

I'm quite nervous about the consular phase since I know USCIS will approve this petition easily based on the overwhelming evidences I provided.  My reasons for the nervousness are as follows:

1/met someone online only 1 month after divorce filed

2/met my fiancee in person too soon after knowing her on facebook

2/had an engagement ceremony too soon only 10 days after receiving divorce decree, 4 months after only seeing my fiancee for 2 weeks on first trip

3/filed K1 petition too soon only after 8 months of romance

 

My question is that based on the timeline I provided above, will my 3 short trips (3 trips total of 7 weeks in vn) which prompted me to file the K1 petition serve as red flags in the eyes of the CO in Vietnam?  If the timeline does serve as red flag, how should I correct it?  Should I be worried about this?  I plan to make 2 more trips after submitting K1 petition and before scheduling for interview in the future.  Any input is welcome and appreciated.  Thanks. 

It is risky to make any engagement ceremony of any kind because CO at interview may look at it like a wedding ceremony, hopefully it was not a big party and you didn't send many pictures regarding it.

[jaysaldi 213]

36 minutes ago, mniceguy16 said:

It is risky to make any engagement ceremony of any kind because CO at interview may look at it like a wedding ceremony, hopefully it was not a big party and you didn't send many pictures regarding it.

I would disagree, at least for some countries. My understanding is that at least in Cambodia, the consular officers want to see that you’ve had a traditional engagement ceremony, because that’s what people in that country normally do if they are truly engaged. Now there may be other countries where engagement ceremonies are rare and having a ceremony like this is a no no. 

 

To the OP - who was the mutual friend who introduced you on Facebook and what’s your age difference with your fiancée? 

 

Every case has strengths and weaknesses they certainly get petitions much weaker than yours. I would just recommend spending as much time in person with her as possible before the interview and do whatever you can to attend that interview. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by jaysaldi

[axlaxl 0]

The mutual friend is one I know since middle school but doesn't communicate much until only after I got divorced.  My fiancee and he also knew each other through facebook as friends.  I'm 36 and my fiancee is 31.  

In Vietnam, I know for a fact that it's traditional to have an engagement ceremony.  I'm a US citizen but I was born in Vietnam so I know it's traditional.    

You guys didn't really answer my question regarding the timeline.  Will the CO in Vietnam when looking at my timeline think of anything negative and prompt him to think that the speed of the relationship from first acquaintance to engagement ceremony to filing petition is too fast?  Thanks.

  

[Unlockable 7,315]

15 minutes ago, axlaxl said:

The mutual friend is one I know since middle school but doesn't communicate much until only after I got divorced.  My fiancee and he also knew each other through facebook as friends.  I'm 36 and my fiancee is 31.  

In Vietnam, I know for a fact that it's traditional to have an engagement ceremony.  I'm a US citizen but I was born in Vietnam so I know it's traditional.    

You guys didn't really answer my question regarding the timeline.  Will the CO in Vietnam when looking at my timeline think of anything negative and prompt him to think that the speed of the relationship from first acquaintance to engagement ceremony to filing petition is too fast?  Thanks.

  

Nobody can predict nor read the mind of the CO.

 

But from what you have posted, there are a few red flags you may have to overcome. The short time knowing each other and the engagement ceremony.

 

Actually, the wedding ceremony can lead to a denial. It doesn't matter what is ceremonial in Vietnam. If it looks too much like a wedding COs have been denying visas. There are plenty of cases on VJ where this has happened.

[jaysaldi 213]

31 minutes ago, Unlockable said:

 

Actually, the wedding ceremony can lead to a denial. It doesn't matter what is ceremonial in Vietnam. If it looks too much like a wedding COs have been denying visas. There are plenty of cases on VJ where this has happened.

Are any of those cases from Vietnam or East Asian countries where engagement ceremonies are customary?  Or are they from the Indian subcontinent?   My impression, and I could be wrong is that having an engagement ceremony may be problematic in the Indian subcontinent, but that NOT having an engagement ceremony could be problematic in countries like Vietnam especially if you proof of the relationship is otherwise weak.

 

 

52 minutes ago, axlaxl said:

   

You guys didn't really answer my question regarding the timeline.  Will the CO in Vietnam when looking at my timeline think of anything negative and prompt him to think that the speed of the relationship from first acquaintance to engagement ceremony to filing petition is too fast?  Thanks.

  

 

 

You apparently decided to marry her and started scheduling an engagement ceremony after meeting her once and spending two weeks with her while you were still legally married to another woman. Yes, the CO could have a problem with that. He may wonder if this single mom had an ulterior motive for jumping so quickly into marriage with an American.

 

The best way to overcome this is more time together in person and showing up at her interview.

Edited August 18, 2019 by jaysaldi

[cyclone27 710]

Engagement ceremony no big deal in Vietnam. 

 

I’d say it was very quick from meet to enagement, but you plan on a few more visits so more FaceTime certainly helps. Curious why the rush?

 

You should  prepare a family tree for both you and your fiancé - more than likely they will ask for it.

[Unlockable 7,315]

6 hours ago, jaysaldi said:

Are any of those cases from Vietnam or East Asian countries where engagement ceremonies are customary?  Or are they from the Indian subcontinent?   My impression, and I could be wrong is that having an engagement ceremony may be problematic in the Indian subcontinent, but that NOT having an engagement ceremony could be problematic in countries like Vietnam especially if you proof of the relationship is otherwise weak.

 

Yes they were from Vietnam (I posted thread links below). We've seen these types of denials from most major countries. But if the OP feels it is customary and not going to be a risk, then that is on them.  We just advise to give as little risk to cases as possible. It may seem like it only occurs to specific countries or regions, but it can happen to anyone. I have seen those types of denials (having engagement or "unofficial" wedding ceremonies) in European, African,  and Asian countries. 

 

Point being is...why risk it when you don't have to.

 

Here are a couple of threads...

 

[jaysaldi 213]

36 minutes ago, Unlockable said:

Yes they were from Vietnam (I posted thread links below). We've seen these types of denials from most major countries. But if the OP feels it is customary and not going to be a risk, then that is on them.  We just advise to give as little risk to cases as possible. It may seem like it only occurs to specific countries or regions, but it can happen to anyone. I have seen those types of denials (having engagement or "unofficial" wedding ceremonies) in European, African,  and Asian countries. 

 

Point being is...why risk it when you don't have to.

 

Here are a couple of threads...

 

I don't think any of those three links support your suggestion that engagement ceremonies have been a basis for denial in Vietnam when they look like weddings.  The first two links are reports of people who got denied, not for having an engagement ceremony, but for getting engaged right after they met. That's going to be a red flag in any country.

The report in the third link is unintelligible and it's not clear why they were denied, it might be because of the family connections, or might be because they had an actual "wedding" (not an engagement ceremony) or it might have been another reason entirely.

 

The reason to have the engagement ceremony in Vietnam and Cambodia is because engaged couples in those countries are expected to do that, and it shows public commitment and expenditure of money, two things that sham K-1 visa applicants try to avoid.  If you don't have the engagement ceremony in those countries, and the rest of your evidence of relationship is borderline in sufficiency, the consular officer may decide "this relationship doesn't look all that genuine to me."  I think the risk of not having the engagement ceremony in those countries outweighs the risk of having it.

Edited August 18, 2019 by jaysaldi

[cyclone27 710]

^fyi we married and never had an engagement ceremony.  Granted I took my time like 5yrs in order to get to know my wife and we had many visits over those 5yrs. 

[Zoeeeeeee 797]

I personally think that whilst planning to get married when you’ve only recently met someone is probably a red flag, flirting/arranging a date with someone only a month after filing for divorce isn’t. You’d filed for a divorce - surely it doesn’t matter how recently that was - for all anyone knows, you could’ve been separated for years prior to them. 

 

Same re dating someone whilst your divorce hasn’t yet finalised - me and my fiancé dated for 18 months before his divorce was finalised, due to the joys of the Californian legal system and various wrangling back and forth - however, he and his ex-wife separated nine months before we’d even met. I don’t think that means anything.

 

So for me, the red flags aren’t to do with your previous marriage but more the speed of this engagement...

[axlaxl 0]

Thanks everyone for all the inputs regarding my concern.

There was no separation, just an abrupt divorce the day I found out my ex-wife cheated on me for the third time.  So I ended it to save me the headache later on.

So everyone thinks that the speeds of the proposal (2 months) and the actual engagement ceremony (4 months) were rather short and quick? I did explain in the narrative I included in K1 form that it was a hasty decision but a sound one because we both love each other for our mirrored personalities and we both experienced the trauma of being cheated on by our previous spouses.  Btw, I did not file K1 petition until August after my third trip to VN if that helps the situation, which is 8 months after knowing my fiancee.  Also for the third trip which my son traveled with me to VN and where we all got along really well with each other including my fiancee's son, lots of pictures were taken with the 4 of us at different locations.  I'm hopeful that the adjudicator will focus more on the time all four of all spent with each other during the visit and focus less on the speed of our relationship.    

Anyway, I would hate it if my case became weak due to the speed of the proposal and the engagement ceremony.  It's bad judgment for two people who are in love to slow things down on purpose just for the sake of successfully applying for K1 visa even though we are sure of our feelings for each other.  I also plan to make 2 more trips to VN before the interview if that helps enforce the nature of our genuine relationship.  I also plan to be at the interview with my fiancee.   

 

On a side note, for the petition, the new revised 11/7/2018 stated that I was to submit only 1 copy of passport photo, which I did just that.  But I heard that 2 copies were required.  Would I get RFE for this for not submitting 2 copies of passport photos?  Does USCIS currently still allow petitioners to submit RFE like before because I read somewhere that said RFE will only be issued at the discretion of the adjudicator and that adjudicator can reject the petition without issuing RFE?  Any input is appreciated.  

[Ontarkie 14,305]

~~Moved to the Regional forum, from K1 P&P - as this would be a country specific question.~~

[Zoeeeeeee 797]

30 minutes ago, axlaxl said:

Thanks everyone for all the inputs regarding my concern.

There was no separation, just an abrupt divorce the day I found out my ex-wife cheated on me for the third time.  So I ended it to save me the headache later on.

So everyone thinks that the speeds of the proposal (2 months) and the actual engagement ceremony (4 months) were rather short and quick? I did explain in the narrative I included in K1 form that it was a hasty decision but a sound one because we both love each other for our mirrored personalities and we both experienced the trauma of being cheated on by our previous spouses.  Btw, I did not file K1 petition until August after my third trip to VN if that helps the situation, which is 8 months after knowing my fiancee.  Also for the third trip which my son traveled with me to VN and where we all got along really well with each other including my fiancee's son, lots of pictures were taken with the 4 of us at different locations.  I'm hopeful that the adjudicator will focus more on the time all four of all spent with each other during the visit and focus less on the speed of our relationship.    

Anyway, I would hate it if my case became weak due to the speed of the proposal and the engagement ceremony.  It's bad judgment for two people who are in love to slow things down on purpose just for the sake of successfully applying for K1 visa even though we are sure of our feelings for each other.  I also plan to make 2 more trips to VN before the interview if that helps enforce the nature of our genuine relationship.  I also plan to be at the interview with my fiancee.   

 

On a side note, for the petition, the new revised 11/7/2018 stated that I was to submit only 1 copy of passport photo, which I did just that.  But I heard that 2 copies were required.  Would I get RFE for this for not submitting 2 copies of passport photos?  Does USCIS currently still allow petitioners to submit RFE like before because I read somewhere that said RFE will only be issued at the discretion of the adjudicator and that adjudicator can reject the petition without issuing RFE?  Any input is appreciated.  

I think that it sounds quick, but you’ve had and will have a good amount of time spent in person together, plus you’ve both met each other’s children, etc - I think you’re doing absolutely the right thing. 

 

I can’t really advise you, as I’m from a different country, so different officers at a different embassy - but based off people’s accounts on here, many people are approved with less time spent together and bigger red flags. Keep doing what you’re doing - I think you should be fine 👍🏻.

[Highmystic 234]

On 8/17/2019 at 9:59 PM, axlaxl said:

 

My question is that based on the timeline I provided above, will my 3 short trips (3 trips total of 7 weeks in vn) which prompted me to file the K1 petition serve as red flags in the eyes of the CO in Vietnam?  If the timeline does serve as red flag, how should I correct it?  Should I be worried about this?  I plan to make 2 more trips after submitting K1 petition and before scheduling for interview in the future.  Any input is welcome and appreciated.  Thanks. 

It is what it is.  Each Country is different, age, time frame, IO, Embassy,  etc.   For me and my wife,  we met on line, texted a few weeks, met in person, stayed with me for a few days twice, and we got engaged.  She spent another week with me, and she left on her Visitors Visa.  I went one time to the Philippines for 2 weeks, then back.  She passed her interview,  got her K1 and headed to the States.  Flew through her AOS for GC.  Everyone and everything is different.  What should have been a red flag was not (for us).  We are also 12 years apart, not a big deal, but we are older which I guess may play a part in the process.  Bottom line, don't worry until you have something to worry about.