Final public charge rule

[Mrsjackson 300]

7 hours ago, azblk said:

Good luck getting a house husband/wife approved if you file after October. 

 

I hope you are right about how this new standard will be implemented because based on my personal experiences the in are going to interpret this in ways most disadvantageous to intending immigrants. 

 

I just don’t see how these new rules will be better at preventing any one from becoming a public charge in the future. Lazy is lazy regardless of the level of education blah blah. I have seen people with masters degrees homeless and people with less than a high school education very successful.

 

Based on the totality of circumstances I see about the changes at the uscis over the last  2.5 years, I believe the USCIS sees itself as the gate keeper keeping out the unwashed hordes trying to overrun America , protecting the American worker from foreign competition et al.

 

Hi there, 

 

What about the new rule makes you think housewives or husbands are going to have a harder time being approved? The onus is still on the petitioner, as it has always been. There is a section in the final rule where it is explained that being a “primary caregiver” (for example to small children, which is what I am) will be considered as contribution to the household. A lot of green cards are currently being issued before EAD so none of those people would be working. Just wondering what’s made you think that? 

[azblk 338]

3 hours ago, Mrsjackson said:

Hi there, 

 

What about the new rule makes you think housewives or husbands are going to have a harder time being approved? The onus is still on the petitioner, as it has always been. There is a section in the final rule where it is explained that being a “primary caregiver” (for example to small children, which is what I am) will be considered as contribution to the household. A lot of green cards are currently being issued before EAD so none of those people would be working. Just wondering what’s made you think that? 

Before this new rule, For most immigrants the public charge bar was overcame with an i-864 completed by your sponsor or joint sponsor. As long they could show they earned over 125% of the poverty level for your household you would get approved. Under the new rules - The i-864 stops being sufficient on its own and the consular/DHS officer must now consider other factors like age, income, health, job skills, job history , credit score and the like.  Each of those factors is assigned a positive/negative rating.

 

So in my thinking a house wife/husband who stays home has a lot of negative factors and almost no positives based on the guidance from the new rule - she has no personal income, no employment history, no job skills, is unemployed blah blah. So with all those negative factors and one positive factor it is hard to see that person getting approved.

I have also seen some interpretations that the applicant(immigrant) must have an income of 125% level as well.

[Soul Mates 44]

2 minutes ago, azblk said:

Before this new rule, For most immigrants the public charge bar was overcame with an i-864 completed by your sponsor or joint sponsor. As long they could show they earned over 125% of the poverty level for your household you would get approved. Under the new rules - The i-864 stops being sufficient on its own and the consular/DHS officer must now consider other factors like age, income, health, job skills, job history , credit score and the like.  Each of those factors is assigned a positive/negative rating.

 

So in my thinking a house wife/husband who stays home has a lot of negative factors and almost no positives based on the guidance from the new rule - she has no personal income, no employment history, no job skills, is unemployed blah blah. So with all those negative factors and one positive factor it is hard to see that person getting approved.

I have also seen some interpretations that the applicant(immigrant) must have an income of 125% level as well.

In that example, with all those negatives the sponsor would have to have 250% poverty level to overcome it.

 

I'm confused about the immigrants income and 125% level but I don't think it's a must, I think it's either a positive or negative, depending on if the immigrant meets it.

[lonesurvivor 48]

2 minutes ago, azblk said:

Before this new rule, For most immigrants the public charge bar was overcame with an i-864 completed by your sponsor or joint sponsor. As long they could show they earned over 125% of the poverty level for your household you would get approved. Under the new rules - The i-864 stops being sufficient on its own and the consular/DHS officer must now consider other factors like age, income, health, job skills, job history , credit score and the like.  Each of those factors is assigned a positive/negative rating.

 

So in my thinking a house wife/husband who stays home has a lot of negative factors and almost no positives based on the guidance from the new rule - she has no personal income, no employment history, no job skills, is unemployed blah blah. So with all those negative factors and one positive factor it is hard to see that person getting approved.

I have also seen some interpretations that the applicant(immigrant) must have an income of 125% level as well.

I really hope that is not true but yeah, I have read that interpretation as well. There's too many interpretations going on now however, so it is hard to figure out what actually is the truth.

 

In a fair world, I think an applicant with the above scenario you described should be approved as long as their sponsor makes sufficient money. I get that maybe 125 is too low, so maybe it should be higher, but if they can prove that, it sounds inhumane to decline someone. There are people all over the world who function just fine with the dynamic of a stay at home mom/husband while the other works.

 

I get that someone with a work visa should be able to support themselves...but with an american spouse sponsor, if that is really what is going to be expected that is insane. And I agree that most of us on here would not be approved if we were to have applied when the rule actually goes into effect. 

 

 

Just now, Soul Mates said:

In that example, with all those negatives the sponsor would have to have 250% poverty level to overcome it.

 

I'm confused about the immigrants income and 125% level but I don't think it's a must, I think it's either a positive or negative, depending on if the immigrant meets it.

I think the sponsor having a 250% poverty level to overcome it would be fair. I hope that really is the case. 

[azblk 338]

Just now, Soul Mates said:

In that example, with all those negatives the sponsor would have to have 250% poverty level to overcome it.

That is correct. That is the start of my problem with this new rule basically it is doubling the the income level of the affidavit of support but it does NOTHING to prevent the immigrant becoming a public charge.

[azblk 338]

16 minutes ago, lonesurvivor said:

I really hope that is not true but yeah, I have read that interpretation as well. There's too many interpretations going on now however, so it is hard to figure out what actually is the truth.

 

In a fair world, I think an applicant with the above scenario you described should be approved as long as their sponsor makes sufficient money. I get that maybe 125 is too low, so maybe it should be higher, but if they can prove that, it sounds inhumane to decline someone. There are people all over the world who function just fine with the dynamic of a stay at home mom/husband while the other works.

 

I get that someone with a work visa should be able to support themselves...but with an american spouse sponsor, if that is really what is going to be expected that is insane. And I agree that most of us on here would not be approved if we were to have applied when the rule actually goes into effect. 

 

 

I think the sponsor having a 250% poverty level to overcome it would be fair. I hope that really is the case. 

For me the problem with the 250% level is not just the money but also that the administration has doubled the threshold without going to congress which set the 125% level. More importantly it does nothing to prevent the prospective immigrants from becoming public charges the very thing they are claiming the are making the changes for. In most cases new immigrants do not qualify for and can not get any of the benefits anyway because of the five year bar.

[jasonlzak 173]

20 minutes ago, azblk said:

That is correct. That is the start of my problem with this new rule basically it is doubling the the income level of the affidavit of support but it does NOTHING to prevent the immigrant becoming a public charge.

Although they clarify that a sufficient AoS is just merely a positive factor. In fact, from what I heard from other's experiences, unless you are very old and have a serious health problem that make you unable to work, a strong AoS and the credibility of the sponsors can generally overcome other factors like the lack of income, education and skills.

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

2 minutes ago, azblk said:

More importantly it does nothing to prevent the prospective immigrants from becoming public charges

How can the government do that?

[lonesurvivor 48]

Just now, jasonlzak said:

Although they clarify that a sufficient AoS is just merely a positive factor. In fact, from what I heard from other's experiences, unless you are very old and have a serious health problem that make you unable to work, a strong AoS and the credibility of the sponsors can generally overcome other factors like the lack of income, education and skills.

I hope that is the case! I do not see why someone's young spouse should get denied just because they may not be completely proficient in english, even when their husband/wife can sponsor them completely. 

[lonesurvivor 48]

Just now, missileman said:

How can the government do that?

Make it impossible for green card holders to get public benefits like it was supposed to be originally (where we sign the affidavit that says we cannot or else our sponsor pays), except for specific cases like children, pregnant mothers etc

[geowrian 22,337]

4 minutes ago, lonesurvivor said:

Make it impossible for green card holders to get public benefits like it was supposed to be originally (where we sign the affidavit that says we cannot or else our sponsor pays), except for specific cases like children, pregnant mothers etc

So let them starve to death, get kicked out of houses, deny medical care, turn to crime, etc.?

Obviously I am being a bit sarcastic as I understand that was not the intent of the statement, but what's the alternative for somebody who lacks funds and needs help? In the end, the options are either provide the support (which is where enforcement of the I-864 needs to be done to address abuse), not provide the support, or start kicking out people and their families saying it's not the problem of the US anymore.

[jasonlzak 173]

The government has to enforce the law and get the reimbursement back from the sponsor You can not apply US standard merits on an immigrant from a developing country and say that person is most likely to become a public charge in the future as he/she does not satisfy those standards. I'm saying this under a truly working government not under an administration who always wants to come up with rules and regulations to reduce legal and low-income immigrants and shift immigrant demography towards their favorite countries.

[azblk 338]

4 minutes ago, missileman said:

How can the government do that?

Am not sure how you do that but I know that the changes they are making right now will do nothing on that front. The narrative being pushed by the administration of why they are making these changes is totally false. Immigrants certainly do not come to this country for the "free stuff" and even if they did they have to wait 5 years before they can get some of that "free stuff". The only immigrants who can get and do get the "free stuff" are those exempted already by congress and they are not affected by this new rule anyway.

You don't put air in your back tire to fix low air in your front tire.

[GoodJack 3]

5 minutes ago, jasonlzak said:

The government has to enforce the law and get the reimbursement back from the sponsor You can not apply US standard merits on an immigrant from a developing country and say that person is most likely to become a public charge in the future as he/she does not satisfy those standards. I'm saying this under a truly working government not under an administration who always wants to come up with rules and regulations to reduce legal and low-income immigrants and shift immigrant demography towards their favorite countries.

This 250%

[azblk 338]

4 minutes ago, geowrian said:

So let them starve to death, get kicked out of houses, deny medical care, turn to crime, etc.?

Obviously I am being a bit sarcastic as I understand that was not the intent of the statement, but what's the alternative for somebody who lacks funds and needs help? In the end, the options are either provide the support (which is where enforcement of the I-864 needs to be done to address abuse), not provide the support, or start kicking out people and their families saying it's not the problem of the US anymore.

The thing is I dont think there is a problem here. I think this is a narrative being pushed by the anti-immigrant talking heads with no basis in reality. Most immigrants already cant get any welfare for the first years on green card. The ones that can are exempt from the effects of this new rule anyway.