Mexico threatens to sue the US for failing to protect its citizens

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

The El Paso guy was absolutely yet another lil Nazi sympathizer, and also if you look back at some of his history there may be some implications (like many psychos) that he started out with animals. As for the Dayton guy.. it's more complex. He had multiple pages espousing at times, differing beliefs that were not compatible with one another. I suspect mental health (of a multi personality kind) is a factor here... however this guy did spend time in internet communities that overlap with the first guy. They both loathed women. But the Dayton guy long had views about the desire to rape, kill, and cannibalize women. He was feared at school. His potential political views on one page are seemingly erased by other views he claimed on another. In short, that guy was a mental nut nihilist.

 

And yes sure, meanwhile murders in every city in America go on and not many talk about them. Yesterday, we had a gun standoff right down the road from my house. On Saturday in Baltimore they announced the arrest of a mother (and her partner) in the murder of her toddler son (adorable child with special needs.. knew as soon as I heard the story that she was lying). In my town they arrested a man who had sole custody of his toddler son, who nearly beat and strangled the child to death (in critical condition now). And there's more and more stories like this... they are all horrible crimes done by horrible people - but the motivations are always different.

 

One thing I am certain of. The killings, including the mass murders... will not stop. It will get worse.

I know this is off topic but I was actually wanting your take on the whole Elijah Cummings/Trump/Baltimore issue that was the rage last week. What is your take on the whole manner?

[yuna628 9,680]

1 hour ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

I know this is off topic but I was actually wanting your take on the whole Elijah Cummings/Trump/Baltimore issue that was the rage last week. What is your take on the whole manner?

I've spent the better part of about three months back in Baltimore. In fact.. in some of the most dangerous areas in Baltimore. I've had to travel it both by foot and car (and it is not lawful to be armed for protection there). I spent a week visiting the ICU at UMD for a time, and saw so many gunshot victims, including cops being brought in. Baltimore is Baltimore. MD is a unique state in that we are actually pretty divided, and we were essential in factors from the Revolution all the way to the Civil War... and that racial divide sometimes shows. We are also a multicultural place. Whenever I take my husband back to visit downtown, I'll point out all of that beauty I see in the husk the outside viewer might condemn. When people point out blight and abandoned buildings, I point out all the wasted potential and what it used to be. The architecture of the brownstones are marvelous and unique. The color, layout, and shape is wonderful. These could be safe beautiful spaces, providing housing and jobs. Instead they are slums and dumping grounds which in turn provides spaces for gangs and drugs. But the problems in Baltimore are systemically old... older than Elijah or Trump themselves.  Before it was called 'murdertown' it was known as 'mobtown'. The mob of different ethnicities ruled not only the unions, but housing developments (now projects), and especially the police force. Free but still segregated African Americans were increasingly (and intentionally) pushed out of their once nice brownstones, and pushed into those projects - in the name of development. Police.. were brutal. This was even before the race riots of the 50s and 60s.. which my parents remember well. Like many people, my mom grew up in the Jewish quarter of Baltimore - and she witnessed the abuse towards all different cultures and races... and to some degree it made them all suspicious of each other. What was more, the police were never seen as kind protectors. They were people to be feared, would falsely accuse, and steal. That unfortunately has continued to these days. We have a lot of corrupt cops, and a union unwilling to admit faults. We certainly also have good cops, but not addressing the problems for so long has pretty much told the public - you're on your own. Long ago when you called 911, you were put on hold... and sometimes the cops never came.

 

There are a lot of American cities that made great strides and adapted after integration and the civil rights movement. Baltimore... had a rough time of it. This somewhat led to the beginnings of increased poverty in these communities. Even in places that were innovative and integrated, like where my mom worked with her black friends. Then the drugs came flooding in. Mobs and gangs found ways to make quick money and convince young men, that this was the best way. Instead, it trapped them. Schools deteriorated. Slumlords keep people in appalling conditions, and a lot of the trash? They hire people to just dump it illegally. It's common to see people outside of their homes, even in 'dangerous' places at night. No one has air conditioning... so the old and the young, on very hot summer nights sit outside, and get hit in crossfire. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Some people have no clean or running water, sinkholes have collapsed the transit system, traffic can be nightmarish.

 

Growing up, sure I'd see rats.. and all sorts of wildlife, depending on if your neighbor had abandoned their home next door which was left to pretty much go to rot. But this wasn't scary to me. It was still safe to walk the streets. The 80s were rough, but they were rough  in New York too, and there was a lot of hope when developers were brought in (with massive tax breaks) for revitalization projects. When O'Malley was elected people thought things would get better. He allowed the police to go aggressive. On the outside, it looked like things were being cleaned up. The reality was, the bad cops were also still there - and hundreds of people were wrongly arrested or stolen from. Gang leaders were allowed to run the jails, in order to keep the gangs in line. Under his admin, my neighborhood saw people fleeing their homes as property values tanked, small businesses closed (Walmart!), and factories shut putting more out of work. Bad cops killed good cops.

 

Remember there is a cycle - young uneducated men born into poverty and don't have any hopes of getting out of it, recruited at an early age by whatever father figure they find to run drugs. They may earn money. Maybe they help their poor moms, or grandmas, or siblings, but ultimately the drug crisis continues. Some suggest that if pot growing were legal, you'd have a ton of very rich young entrepreneurs and would push out the sway toward heroin or cocaine that's now laced with toxic stuff. Give me five minutes in downtown, and I can point out to you a person slumped over with needles, or homeless (that aren't even from the state!) on every corner. Baltimore may have poor areas but it is surrounded by a hub of massive wealthy highrises and local cultural iconic buildings. We have the best hospitals, best museums, best teaching hospitals, and some of the best colleges in the states... and all these places young inner city men could never afford. What hope do they have?

 

Then we have... the ministers. There are a lot of mega-preachers in Baltimore. A lot of them are con men, but they certainly have vast wealth to show for it by preying upon those poor people. And some argue that they have ties with slumlords and even gangs that help keep their lifestyle comfortable. We also have very wealthy (both white and black and kind of like Bezos types) investor/developers that just have plans to raze vast stretches of buildings and get huge tax breaks. Whatever they develop will bring profits to themselves - usually tech companies.. and not hiring locals (afterall what poor young man with a drug arrest record would be employed or helped to be educated by a tech developer?) African Americans in Baltimore love their city, just as much as anyone else from there does. They know the numerous line of corrupt mayors have done nothing. They see no hope though. They no longer trust politicians, police, ministers, so-called advocates, and outsiders that have so many opinions about their city but have no solutions...  the rest gave up long ago and are cynical. There have been many bad deals between Washington and outsiders in Baltimore claiming their project will be amazing. Instead it ends up being vacant lots to nowhere. Remember big development attracting tech companies and such tends to bring in wealthier workers and clientele, this directly affects the housing market. What was once affordable suddenly is outpriced in some places. My cousin lives in one of those gated highrises downtown, perfectly safe and secure, but doesn't experience the rough and tumble from the 'outside' looking in. She loves it there. Of course she would. Anyone would. And in other areas it works in reverse. In order to leave Baltimore, my family basically took a loss on their house!

 

I love my city, dearly Cyber. I wish I lived back there, strangely enough. Maybe people looking outside don't understand the love and the want to somehow make things better or to see us succeed. We're kind of tired of people dissing us and trying to score political points. Some are selling shirts saying ''it's #### , but we love our ####''... I'm not sure that's the right approach either. We need genuine people that care and real solutions. I get tired of people saying ''well why don't Baltimoreans vote for republicans then!" There's no outreach from Republicans, there's no feeling that Republicans actually care about issues that affect those that live there, and people distrust all parties. They just see empty promises, so they'd rather vote for someone that at least pretends to care. I did not care for what Trump said and don't much care for how Cummings handled it either. That being said, he is a respected figure and is friend to many prominent republicans too.. and still no one does anything. When an American president speaks about rats, or disgusting, or filth, or doesn't understand how people live there.. he is talking about his fellow Americans.. and it's not using language that's helpful to the situation. Words matter. How you handle yourself matters. How you treat people, even those you might dislike, matters. Of course he'd find it all so strange, being born in wealth and security. If he's going to point out Cumming's district (which has both the wealthiest areas and poorest areas) one should not pretend to overlook some of the R-led counties in Maryland that I am not afraid to point out are even WORSE, than Baltimore. And I know, because I live in one of them. It's poverty filled, drug filled, crime filled, with slums, and rats that would put a Baltimore rat to shame. If I see a needle in a slumped over person's arm in Baltimore, it's not much different than what I see in my own current location every day. Would he dare to say these things about the extreme poverty and drugs in red states? We aren't so different when it boils down to it. What is the solution then? It's certainly not unkind words and twitter fights for votes.

Edited August 5, 2019 by yuna628

[Boiler 45,661]

Cummings set himself up, should have kept his mouth shut, he was and is in no position to judge.

[yuna628 9,680]

Just for reference to the Baltimore case of the mother who murdered her little boy over the weekend... more details followed today. It's stomach churning. Likely this child had been abused his whole short life, and then they murdered him in the cruelest of ways. https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2019/08/05/malachi-lawson-baltimore-boy-death-alicia-lawson-shatika-lawson-charging-documents/ That is not to negate the sickening deaths of those men, women, and children who were murdered this weekend by hateful and vile people. But sometimes the 'quieter' non-spectacle deaths are the ones that really truly bother my the depths of my soul. All of these people had hopefully had happy lives together before they were snuffed out... but this little one only had known suffering.

[Ben & Katy 168]

17 hours ago, Boiler said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7320755/Mexico-threatens-sue-failing-protect-citizens-El-Paso-mass-shooting.html

 

Mexico wants to sue the United States for failing to protect its citizens after this weekend's mass shooting in El Paso, Texas, which left 20 people dead, including three Mexican nationals.

Mexico Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard in a video posted on Twitter Sunday vowed to take legal action against the US. 

The mass shooting on Saturday at a Walmart at the Cielo Vista Mall also left 26 people injured, including 9 who were also Mexican citizens.

Ebrard said Mexico condemned Saturday's shooting and called it an “act of barbarism.”

 

My first thought is that perhaps they need to build a wall.

I hope it does happen.  Anytime an american tourist gets killed in Mexico the US asks to extradite them to the USA for prosecution.  I hope people just stop coming for awhile so the USA sees how important mexican tourist money is to local economies along the border.  Good thing the US is constructing and paying for that wall.  Maybe Mexico could fill in the other gaps along the border and then they don't have to worry about gringos locos coming down and shooting everyone. 

[Boiler 45,661]

3 minutes ago, Ben & Katy said:

I hope it does happen.  Anytime an american tourist gets killed in Mexico the US asks to extradite them to the USA for prosecution.  I hope people just stop coming for awhile so the USA sees how important mexican tourist money is to local economies along the border.  Good thing the US is constructing and paying for that wall.  Maybe Mexico could fill in the other gaps along the border and then they don't have to worry about gringos locos coming down and shooting everyone. 

The US would have no basis to seek an extradite and I have never heard of them attempting to do so, they have no jurisdiction.

[Ben & Katy 168]

Just now, Boiler said:

The US would have no basis to seek an extradite and I have never heard of them attempting to do so, they have no jurisdiction.

They have done it before.  Hell they even did it to El Chapo LOL

[Boiler 45,661]

4 minutes ago, Ben & Katy said:

They have done it before.  Hell they even did it to El Chapo LOL

He had committed crimes in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America_v._Joaquín_Guzmán_Loera

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,376]

10 minutes ago, Boiler said:

The US would have no basis to seek an extradite and I have never heard of them attempting to do so, they have no jurisdiction.

I was fixing to say. never heard of the USA extradating a Mexican citizen for killing a tourist in Mexico

10 minutes ago, Ben & Katy said:

They have done it before.  Hell they even did it to El Chapo LOL

Got a link ? You said the extradited a mexican citizen for killing a american citizen 

[Dashinka 24,592]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I was fixing to say. never heard of the USA extradating a Mexican citizen for killing a tourist in Mexico

Got a link ? You said the extradited a mexican citizen for killing a american citizen 

In Mexico.  I am not aware of any country allowed to extradite anyone when the crime occurred elsewhere regardless of the citizenship of the victims.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

6 hours ago, Ben & Katy said:

I hope it does happen.  Anytime an american tourist gets killed in Mexico the US asks to extradite them to the USA for prosecution.  I hope people just stop coming for awhile so the USA sees how important mexican tourist money is to local economies along the border.  Good thing the US is constructing and paying for that wall.  Maybe Mexico could fill in the other gaps along the border and then they don't have to worry about gringos locos coming down and shooting everyone. 

If you can provide links to these supposed extradition examples?  If not, please stop making up stories to try and make a point.  It won't be successful, I promise.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

14 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

If you can provide links to these supposed extradition examples?  If not, please stop making up stories to try and make a point.  It won't be successful, I promise.

That poster I have noticed has done that a lot but never really provides examples or proof

[Ben & Katy 168]

On 8/5/2019 at 9:03 PM, ALFKAD said:

If you can provide links to these supposed extradition examples?  If not, please stop making up stories to try and make a point.  It won't be successful, I promise.

I don't care if you believe it or not.  Not everything makes it into the mainstream news.  It is a case by case basis, depending on the cooperation of either country involved.  Most of the time nobody catches the murderer of an american in Mexico.   One of El Chapos charges who got extradited to the USA was the murder of six americans.  

 

 

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2014/02/19/us/new-york-domestic-killing-warnings/index.html

yes I know he did the crime here but regardless he would have been extradited had he done it in Mexico. 

 

American being extradited to Mexico for crimes here and in mexico

https://www.usmarshals.gov/news/chron/2018/061618.htm

 

 

[Boiler 45,661]

Of course an American can be extradited to Mexico for a crime committed in Mexico, happens all the time, you said the US would be bale to extradite a Mexican Citizen for a crime committed in Mexico to and American citizen. As has been said, no they can not.