Is anyone watching the debates tonight and tomorrow?

[laylalex 7,282]

Just now, Burnt Reynolds said:

Not only did Warren lie about her race to get herself into Harvard, but Harvard used that lie to benefit their own image as well.

 

That is NOT TRUE regarding her hiring. Did you even read the article? The people who were in charge of hiring said it didn't come up. They only looked at her as a white female applicant. I mean, what basis do you have for discounting every one of the people who hired her saying it wasn't an issue considered? I know people who went to Harvard Law. It is NOT completely staffed by liberal firebrands. 

[Dashinka 24,110]

7 minutes ago, laylalex said:

That is NOT TRUE regarding her hiring. Did you even read the article? The people who were in charge of hiring said it didn't come up. They only looked at her as a white female applicant. I mean, what basis do you have for discounting every one of the people who hired her saying it wasn't an issue considered? I know people who went to Harvard Law. It is NOT completely staffed by liberal firebrands. 

Often in hiring, those types of things are not explicitly brought up, but based on the article you posted, she clearly changed her ethnicity on her application.

[laylalex 7,282]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Often in hiring, those types of things are not explicitly brought up, but based on the article you posted, she clearly changed her ethnicity on her application.

All but one professor said they treated her as a white applicant. The other one said he couldn't remember. This wasn't a small group of people. 

 

I tend to believe people who say "I was there and this definitely didn't happen" rather than guess. Particularly when those people can get disciplined for publicly lying.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

23 minutes ago, laylalex said:

That is NOT TRUE regarding her hiring. Did you even read the article? The people who were in charge of hiring said it didn't come up. They only looked at her as a white female applicant. I mean, what basis do you have for discounting every one of the people who hired her saying it wasn't an issue considered? I know people who went to Harvard Law. It is NOT completely staffed by liberal firebrands. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/06/elizabeth-warren-american-indian-identity/2787055002/

 

Quote

In 1986, Warren also began registering herself as a minority with the Association of American Law Schools. She continued to do so through 1995, the Post reported.

 

 

Quote

It was not until after she was hired that Warren changed her ethnicity from white to Native American at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where she worked from 1987 to 1995, the Globe reported.

 

 

Quote

Similarly, she changed her ethnicity in Harvard's human resources system four months after she began working there as a tenured professor in 1995. The Ivy League institution identified Warren as Native American on federal affirmative action forms every year until 2004, according to the Post. 

 

 

This was very clearly Warren devising ways to feign Native American heritage for personal gain, and Harvard likewise utilizing this as putting on this show of being woke. They had a relationship and found a way to mutually benefit, to the detriment of Native Americans. They can claim they said in private whatever they like, and people are free to elevate the importance of subjective claims that can be conjured at will.. empirical evidence (as in, proof) says otherwise, making their subjective claims entirely meaningless.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

13 minutes ago, laylalex said:

All but one professor said they treated her as a white applicant. The other one said he couldn't remember. This wasn't a small group of people. 

 

I tend to believe people who say "I was there and this definitely didn't happen" rather than guess. Particularly when those people can get disciplined for publicly lying.

I am sorry to tell you this but there is more than enough evidence out there that refutes this claim. She has lied repeatedly in the past about her ethnicity if and when it better suited her. 

[Boiler 44,857]

Re writing history to suite current needs is hardly unknown. What surprised me in this particular situation is that anybody could remember what they though at the time, OK my memory is not the best but this sounded a stretch too far, that they remembered her at all was surprising.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,367]

14 minutes ago, laylalex said:

All but one professor said they treated her as a white applicant. The other one said he couldn't remember. This wasn't a small group of people. 

 

I tend to believe people who say "I was there and this definitely didn't happen" rather than guess. Particularly when those people can get disciplined for publicly lying.

So you believe the President of the Ukraine, who said there was no Quid pro Quo. Really the only person who would know for sure 

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I don't really have the time or inclination to involve myself in this matter, but I must say I find the statements of over 30 Harvard Law professors on what was and was not considered during the hiring process of a particular professor to be more compelling than what and when Warren put down about her own ethnicity in documents that may or may not have been reviewed by the hiring committee.

 

Similarly, if Warren changed her ethnicity to Native American after she was hired, I do not see that as evidence that she brought it to the attention of the committee during the hiring process. It says the opposite, potentially.

 

Now, I do not discount that Harvard touted her as being Native American, and my understanding is that some of this was done without her approval, but not all. I don't think this is about "wokeness" (I lived through the culture wars of the 90s in an Ivy League environment -- "woke" was not only not a term used, one would be surprised at how decidedly "un-woke" HYP was during this time), but rather Harvard wanting to sell itself as a place where other minorities might apply as faculty and students. It was about giving themselves cover at a time when these establishments were incredibly white, and continued to be incredibly white, because minorities thought they wouldn't be welcomed. Yale, at least, has considerably more students and faculty of color than when I was there, but the institution has been more successful in attracting undergrads than faculty who aren't white. I have been persuaded over the years to understand that representation on the faculty is important -- it's not about "virtue signalling," it's about making sure that a variety of voices are being heard.

 

A heterodox faculty in terms of ethnicity, race, gender, sexuality, political and philosophical viewpoints enriches the academy, full stop. I did not always believe this, and gave it zero thought when I was an undergrad, where I'd guess 80% of my professors were white men (a hazard of being a double major in English Lit (concentration in 18th and 19th century British fiction) and Classics). It never occurred to me to ask, why are all my professors white and old? (Except for one very sexy 30-something adjunct Ancient Greek professor, who was still white and male. I admit to wearing a loosely crocheted sweater with a hot pink bra underneath to seminars he led because I am a horrible human being who was once 19 years old.) Representation matters, because it causes people to question their beliefs and points of view, which is sort of one of the points of attending university in the first place. And yes, this certainly includes instruction by professors on the right hand side of the dial. Again, when I was there, such people definitely existed on campus, and in fact my senior thesis supervisor and I never did see eye to eye on a number of cultural and political issues. I found him an excellent professor and an odious toad at the same time. I greatly enjoyed learning from him, even though he thought Nixon was robbed.

 

Memories may fade, but Warren was a singular professor by most accounts. That her hiring was memorable isn't a surprise to me. What is surprising is that the memories are consistent. Consistency to me speaks of reliability. When putting on a case, if multiple witnesses recall events happening in a roughly identical manner, one can make an inference that the events happened in that way. Now, the reliability of the witnesses themselves also comes into play. These are 30 Harvard professors, current or former, who aren't in lock step with each other. An altogether different proposition from a gang of embezzlers, thieves or drug addicts as a class (though it is possible some of the individual professors are embezzlers, thieves or drug addicts).

 

maven peacing out -- I have a full plate this afternoon (hence why this has taken me an hour or more to finish writing), so talk amongst yourselves. 

[Boiler 44,857]

 

Quote

A heterodox faculty in terms of ethnicity, race, gender, sexuality, political and philosophical viewpoints enriches the academy, full stop. 

I agree with this, so what has happened, why have we got where we are, and what can be done?

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,367]

25 minutes ago, Boiler said:

 

I agree with this, so what has happened, why have we got where we are, and what can be done?

I am adding heterodox to my reportee along with tortfeasor 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

30 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I agree with this, so what has happened, why have we got where we are, and what can be done?

The obvious solution is when there's an organizational controversy like this, find some employees to give a policy handbook/value proposition cue card response, and it's magically believable regardless of the empirical evidence saying its not. The truth is clearly a popular vote of handpicked people, which should sound awful familiar.

[Boiler 44,857]

There was a report in the UK media that in Sheffield the Uni is paying students to report on unapproved behavior, the very last thing they want is open exchange of views.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

 

Quote

Left intellectuals took an active part in the lively working class culture. Some sought to compensate for the class character of the cultural institutions through programs of workers’ education, or by writing best-selling books on mathematics, science, and other topics for the general public. Remarkably, their left counterparts today often seek to deprive working people of these tools of emancipation, informing us that the “project of the Enlightenment” is dead, that we must abandon the “illusions” of science and rationality - a message that will gladden the hearts of the powerful, delighted to monopolize these instruments for their own use.

If it's too hard to deal with real problems, there are a lot of ways to avoid doing so. One of them is to go off on wild goose chases that don't matter. Another is to get involved in academic cults that are very divorced from any reality and that provide a defense against dealing with the world as it actually is.

- Right wing nut Chomsky.

 

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

21 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I am adding heterodox to my reportee along with tortfeasor 

why, you'll just misspell it........

[TBoneTX 44,672]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I am adding heterodox to my reportee along with tortfeasor 

Mispelt!  Reparted!!!!!