Chinese notarial certificate of birth contains parents' names but not their birthdates and places of birth. Is that a problem?

[Hemutian 68]

Last week my fiancee and I ran traveled back to the village where she was born to get her papers in order for her notarial certificate of birth and police certificate.

 

After gathering the necessary documents from her village, we then headed to the notary office in Shaoguan, which is the only notary office in the region that does translations for foreign use.

 

Having carefully read the P4 instructions from the US Consulate in Guangzhou, I was familiar with the requirement that "The notarized birth certificate must state the date, place of birth, and names of both parents (even if deceased)." Note that in the instructions, "must state" is written in bold type and underlined. It sure sounds like they mean it!

 

So when we got to the notary public office, I specifically checked with the notary public officer if the notarial certificate of birth would include the names, birth dates, and places of birth of my fiancee's parents, and the officer said "yes". They also told her that when she returned to the notary office in a week to pick up her finished documents (3 copies of both white books, plus English translations), she had to bring her father with her in person in order to verify the circumstances of her birth.

 

That was last week. Today, she and her father traveled back to the notary office, and picked up the white books (6 in all, 3 each of the notarial certificate of birth and certificate of no criminal record). It wasn't until she got home that I opened the notarial certificate of birth white books and saw that while they did include her parents names and Chinese ID numbers, they did NOT include their birth dates or places of birth (see attached image below). This alarmed me because the P4 instructions specifically require this information, and the last thing I'd want is for her application to be rejected or sent to administrative processing because of this "incomplete documentation". 

 

However, my fiancee argues that these white books are the standard form that all Chinese notary offices issue. She showed me copies of the same document that other Chinese fiancees in her WeChat K1 group shared that also did not include the parents' birth dates or places of birth , who said they passed their interviews. She also pointed out that every Chinese citizen's Chinese ID number actually does contain one's birthdate embedded within the ID numbers, so I guess it's really just the place of birth that's missing.

 

Also, there is a thread on Candle For Love that @RandyW has shared in several birth certificate-related threads on this forum, in which you can see images of samples of the notarial certificate of birth, and they also do not include the parents' birth dates or places of birth.

 

Would really like to hear from some others who have gone through the interview in Guangzhou recently. Did your fiancee's notarial certificates of birth include the parents' birth dates or places of birth, or did they look like mine in the image below?

 

Also, the name "GUANGDONG" on the cover of the white books is misspelled "CUANGDONG" which is clearly a typo. That's not going to trigger the Consulate to suspect these as fakes, is it?

 

 

[samnrong 52]

4 hours ago, Hemutian said:

Last week my fiancee and I ran traveled back to the village where she was born to get her papers in order for her notarial certificate of birth and police certificate.

 

After gathering the necessary documents from her village, we then headed to the notary office in Shaoguan, which is the only notary office in the region that does translations for foreign use.

 

Having carefully read the P4 instructions from the US Consulate in Guangzhou, I was familiar with the requirement that "The notarized birth certificate must state the date, place of birth, and names of both parents (even if deceased)." Note that in the instructions, "must state" is written in bold type and underlined. It sure sounds like they mean it!

 

So when we got to the notary public office, I specifically checked with the notary public officer if the notarial certificate of birth would include the names, birth dates, and places of birth of my fiancee's parents, and the officer said "yes". They also told her that when she returned to the notary office in a week to pick up her finished documents (3 copies of both white books, plus English translations), she had to bring her father with her in person in order to verify the circumstances of her birth.

 

That was last week. Today, she and her father traveled back to the notary office, and picked up the white books (6 in all, 3 each of the notarial certificate of birth and certificate of no criminal record). It wasn't until she got home that I opened the notarial certificate of birth white books and saw that while they did include her parents names and Chinese ID numbers, they did NOT include their birth dates or places of birth (see attached image below). This alarmed me because the P4 instructions specifically require this information, and the last thing I'd want is for her application to be rejected or sent to administrative processing because of this "incomplete documentation". 

 

However, my fiancee argues that these white books are the standard form that all Chinese notary offices issue. She showed me copies of the same document that other Chinese fiancees in her WeChat K1 group shared that also did not include the parents' birth dates or places of birth , who said they passed their interviews. She also pointed out that every Chinese citizen's Chinese ID number actually does contain one's birthdate embedded within the ID numbers, so I guess it's really just the place of birth that's missing.

 

Also, there is a thread on Candle For Love that @RandyW has shared in several birth certificate-related threads on this forum, in which you can see images of samples of the notarial certificate of birth, and they also do not include the parents' birth dates or places of birth.

 

Would really like to hear from some others who have gone through the interview in Guangzhou recently. Did your fiancee's notarial certificates of birth include the parents' birth dates or places of birth, or did they look like mine in the image below?

 

Also, the name "GUANGDONG" on the cover of the white books is misspelled "CUANGDONG" which is clearly a typo. That's not going to trigger the Consulate to suspect these as fakes, is it?

 

 

This is exactly how my fiancee's white book looked. As your fiancee mentioned, this is a standard form that the notary office gives.

 

Is her picture glued to the chinese version along with the notary stamp?

[Hemutian 68]

7 hours ago, samnrong said:

This is exactly how my fiancee's white book looked. As your fiancee mentioned, this is a standard form that the notary office gives.

 

Is her picture glued to the chinese version along with the notary stamp?

Yeah, Chinese version has her photo and stamp.

Thanks.

I guess I can stop worrying about this then.

I guess this means that sometimes, the US Consulate doesn't actually enforce its own demands?

Edited July 31, 2019 by Hemutian

[RandyW 149]

The Notarial Certificate of Birth is a Chinese document made to Chinese standards for use overseas.

The US Consulate does NOT specify the format for Chinese documentation.

 

Anything else will be recognized as NON-STANDARD and rejected by the Consulate.

 

[Hemutian 68]

3 hours ago, RandyW said:

The Notarial Certificate of Birth is a Chinese document made to Chinese standards for use overseas.

The US Consulate does NOT specify the format for Chinese documentation.

 

Anything else will be recognized as NON-STANDARD and rejected by the Consulate.

 

So I instructions I was referring to are those in the screenshot below. This is the P4 instructions specifically for applicants in China, as published by the US Consulate in Guangzhou, specifically referring to documentation needed by applicants in China, so I assume that this is specifying the format desired for Chinese documentation. As you can see, it does state quite clearly that  "The notarized birth certificate must state the date, place of birth, and names of both parents (even if deceased)." 

That's the source of my confusion. But based on everything I'm hearing, it sounds like I should ignore these specific instructions from the Consulate, and just assume that the certificate in the form issued by the Chinese notary is good enough, even though it doesn't quite meet the specifications the Consulate is asking for. 

 

It's just a little weird, because usually on this forum, people advise to do everything exactly as the Consulate requests, but in this case, I'm being advised to ignore the Consulate's precise request and submit documentation that's missing specific information that they asked for. But if that's what everyone else is doing, then I'm fine doing it too.

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Hemutian

[RandyW 149]

Chinese documentation IS WHAT IT IS. The Consulate KNOWS what to expect.

 

Anything else (other than the standard Chinese Notarial Certificate of Birth) is NOT an official "birth certificate". They are NOT made to order - either to YOUR specifications, or to the Consulate's.

 

The verbiage you are looking at is probably standard Dept of State boilerplate stuff, and should not be there.

 

From the State Dept's Reciprocity and Civil Document Tables for China -

 

 

Quote

 

Special Seal(s) / Color / Format: A notarial birth certificate normally contains a watermark, seal, and red stamp. It indicates the applicant’s name, gender, date of birth, ID number, place of birth, and both parents’ names.  NOTE: Notarial birth certificates issued prior to 2012 may not list the ID number. All notarial documents must have an English translation, and be attached with a certificate stating that the English translation is in conformity with the Chinese original.

 

Issuing Authority Personnel Title: Notary Public (Gong Zheng Yuan)

 

 

[RandyW 149]

Now WAIT  a second. Read carefully

 

"The notarized birth certificate must state the date and place of birth, and names of both parents (even if deceased)." 

 

That is correct, and in line with the Reciprocity tables, just in ambiguously stated English. Note that NOWHERE else does it state that "the date and place of birth" are required - THEY ARE, but not of the parents.

[Hemutian 68]

3 hours ago, RandyW said:

Chinese documentation IS WHAT IT IS. The Consulate KNOWS what to expect.

 

Anything else (other than the standard Chinese Notarial Certificate of Birth) is NOT an official "birth certificate". They are NOT made to order - either to YOUR specifications, or to the Consulate's.

 

The verbiage you are looking at is probably standard Dept of State boilerplate stuff, and should not be there.

 

From the State Dept's Reciprocity and Civil Document Tables for China -

 

 

 

Okay. I hear you.

I'm just trying to cross all the t's and dot all the i's here, and I figured if I had this question, then others might as well.

Just trying to get as much information out there as possible to make this complicated process easier for everyone.

[Hemutian 68]

2 hours ago, RandyW said:

Now WAIT  a second. Read carefully

 

"The notarized birth certificate must state the date and place of birth, and names of both parents (even if deceased)." 

 

That is correct, and in line with the Reciprocity tables, just in ambiguously stated English. Note that NOWHERE else does it state that "the date and place of birth" are required - THEY ARE, but not of the parents.

Ahhh... They meant the date and place of birth of the fiancee, not of the parents. For the parents, all they need are the names. I see that now. 

I read too much into this sentence. The comma did make it somewhat ambiguous. They could make this sentence more clear if they'd indicated that the date and place of birth are for the applicant, and that's a separate clause than the names of the parents.

In any case, hopefully my being overly detail-oriented here helps others avoid this confusion in the future.

Thanks for all those who helped to clarify.

 

[samnrong 52]

1 hour ago, Hemutian said:

Ahhh... They meant the date and place of birth of the fiancee, not of the parents. For the parents, all they need are the names. I see that now. 

I read too much into this sentence. The comma did make it somewhat ambiguous. They could make this sentence more clear if they'd indicated that the date and place of birth are for the applicant, and that's a separate clause than the names of the parents.

In any case, hopefully my being overly detail-oriented here helps others avoid this confusion in the future.

Thanks for all those who helped to clarify.

 

Technically the sentence is gramatically correct as it stands. Since the "and" is after the comma, it is a separate clause.

 

The sentence is listing of things that must be done. It reads as: "the notarized birth certificate must state (1) the date and place of birth, (2) and the names of both parents".

 

If it was requesting the date and place of birth of the parents there would be no comma and it would read: "the notarized birth certificate must state the date and place of birth and the names of both parents".

[RandyW 149]

1 hour ago, samnrong said:

Technically the sentence is gramatically correct as it stands. Since the "and" is after the comma, it is a separate clause.

 

The sentence is listing of things that must be done. It reads as: "the notarized birth certificate must state (1) the date and place of birth, (2) and the names of both parents".

 

If it was requesting the date and place of birth of the parents there would be no comma and it would read: "the notarized birth certificate must state the date and place of birth and the names of both parents".

 

 

The sentence from ustraveldocs reads ""the notarized birth certificate must state  the date, place of birth, and the names of both parents" - highlighted in yellow above. I added the "and" between "date, place of birth" myself for clarification.

Edited July 31, 2019 by RandyW

[samnrong 52]

1 minute ago, RandyW said:

 

 

The sentence from ustraveldocs reads ""the notarized birth certificate must state  the date, place of birth, and the names of both parents". I added the "and" between "date, place of birth" myself for clarification.

Ahh. I do see now how it could be interpreted both ways. Thanks for clarification.

[visafrompa 9]

Well, if the parents have an ID card then somewhere there is a birth date.  Even a Huko will have parents place and date of birth.

 

The Notary may not be willing to alter the form to fit the Consulates request.

 

 

[Hemutian 68]

5 hours ago, visafrompa said:

Well, if the parents have an ID card then somewhere there is a birth date.  Even a Huko will have parents place and date of birth.

 

The Notary may not be willing to alter the form to fit the Consulates request.

 

 

We had all the info on parents' birth place and date, that wasn't the issue. The issue was I thought that info needed to be included in the Notary-issued white book and it wasn't. But as other posters clarified above, it turns out this whole issue was a non-issue, because I had mis-read the instructions. There is no requirement for the parents' birthplace and date in the white book. The requirement is only for the applicant's birthplace and date. Hope that clears things up for future applicants.