10 yr green card expired 20 years ago.... what do I do?

[Lil bear 4,283]

Just now, Going through said:

He has the expired card still in his possession, from what OP said?

My mistake. 🤪

 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

46 minutes ago, Going through said:

He has the expired card still in his possession, from what OP said?  At least that's what I gathered...

But it has to be valid which at this point in time is not valid. So he will have to make it valid and then file for Naturalization

Edited July 24, 2019 by Cyberfx1024

[Going through 5,671]

41 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

But it has to be valid which at this point in time is not valid. So he will have to make it valid and then file for Naturalization

According to the USCIS policy manual, it doesn't state the card itself must be unexpired---only that the LPR status must still be valid. 

He's still a LPR despite the expired date on the GC.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Going through

[Going through 5,671]

He has no physical proof of his ongoing LPR status...but an expired green card is not going to impede the N400 application, if he wishes to pursue citizenship instead of the i-90 (and has the expired card still in his possession to submit a photocopy, of course).

 

 

[Boiler 45,908]

The card is just evidence and the old ones had no expiry date. Just like a Passport is evidence.

[Murcielago 12]

I hope this helps: 

 

[Sm1smom 255]

11 hours ago, Going through said:

According to the USCIS policy manual, it doesn't state the card itself must be unexpired---only that the LPR status must still be valid. 

He's still a LPR despite the expired date on the GC.

 

10 hours ago, Going through said:

He has no physical proof of his ongoing LPR status...but an expired green card is not going to impede the N400 application, if he wishes to pursue citizenship instead of the i-90 (and has the expired card still in his possession to submit a photocopy, of course).

 

 

 

An expired GC can impede the N400 naturalization decision. Direct quote from USCIS below:

 

 

“Question: What should I do if I have already applied for naturalization and my Permanent Resident Card, also known as “Green Card,” is expiring?

Answer: A permanent resident is required to have valid, unexpired proof of lawful permanent residence in his or her possession at all times.  Applying for naturalization does not change this requirement.  For this reason, you must generally apply to renew your expiring Green Card even if you have applied for naturalization. If you have questions, please make an InfoPass appointment. For more information on renewing your Green Card, visit uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted/renew-green-card or uscis.gov/i-90.

 

Questions and Answers about U.S. Citizenship

 

[Going through 5,671]

59 minutes ago, Sm1smom said:

 

 

An expired GC can impede the N400 naturalization decision. Direct quote from USCIS below:

 

 

“Question: What should I do if I have already applied for naturalization and my Permanent Resident Card, also known as “Green Card,” is expiring?

Answer: A permanent resident is required to have valid, unexpired proof of lawful permanent residence in his or her possession at all times.  Applying for naturalization does not change this requirement.  For this reason, you must generally apply to renew your expiring Green Card even if you have applied for naturalization. If you have questions, please make an InfoPass appointment. For more information on renewing your Green Card, visit uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted/renew-green-card or uscis.gov/i-90.

 

Questions and Answers about U.S. Citizenship

 

Well naturally they want you to renew the green card---USCIS double-dips the fees that way, so they're smart to encourage it. 

 

It's kind of like at the bottom of that FAQ page where they say, as the last line, "There is no limit to the number of times you can apply for naturalization.".... (just like there's no limit to the number of times they can deny someone) naturally, USCIS is happy to take your money at any time.

 

My GC was expired when my N400 rolled around, as has happened to many VJ members.  It never came up as an issue, nor was it ever mentioned.  Not at my time of filing when they received my application, not at my biometrics when I presented an expired GC as identification, not at my interview.

 

While it's true the LPR is required to have a valid GC, it's not a requirement with the application to have your card be unexpired when applying. 

The key word in what you've quoted above is in bold:  "you must generally apply to renew your expiring Green Card even if you have applied for naturalization." 

 

The word "generally" in that sentence is important.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Going through

[Sm1smom 255]

1 hour ago, Going through said:

Well naturally they want you to renew the green card---USCIS double-dips the fees that way, so they're smart to encourage it. 

 

It's kind of like at the bottom of that FAQ page where they say, as the last line, "There is no limit to the number of times you can apply for naturalization.".... (just like there's no limit to the number of times they can deny someone) naturally, USCIS is happy to take your money at any time.

 

My GC was expired when my N400 rolled around, as has happened to many VJ members.  It never came up as an issue, nor was it ever mentioned.  Not at my time of filing when they received my application, not at my biometrics when I presented an expired GC as identification, not at my interview.

 

While it's true the LPR is required to have a valid GC, it's not a requirement with the application to have your card be unexpired when applying. 

The key word in what you've quoted above is in bold:  "you must generally apply to renew your expiring Green Card even if you have applied for naturalization." 

 

The word "generally" in that sentence is important.

 

So is the word “must” which is before “generally” - that is the pertinent word IMO. “Must” indicates something that is required, not optional. 

[Going through 5,671]

47 minutes ago, Sm1smom said:

 

So is the word “must” which is before “generally” - that is the pertinent word IMO. “Must” indicates something that is required, not optional. 

Take it as you will then.  USCIS's Adjudicator's Policy Manual speaks differently.  And it wasn't required for me, by any means, or others on VJ who've been in the same situation and reported back after their own interviews.

 

Like I said, USCIS will happily take people's money at any time---$725 for the N400 fee, plus $535 for the i-90 fee (to renew a 10-year green card that the OP can use for..what?   A year or so, maybe, before their oath?  Hopefully they have the funds, then, if they feel they "must" renew their GC, instead of "must generally". (if they wish to apply for the N400)

 

Not my money, so I'm ok with whichever decision they make.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Going through

[HRQX 4,145]

15 minutes ago, Going through said:

$535 for the i-90 fee (to renew a 10-year green card that the OP can use for..what?   A year or so, maybe, before their oath?

To comply with INA 264(e) for the "year or so."

[Going through 5,671]

9 minutes ago, HRQX said:

To comply with INA 264(e) for the "year or so."

Yeah, that would be the only reason...and it's a good one.  Plus travel, since he'd need a valid greencard to board a plane---It's a shame he let it expire this long...I couldn't imagine not wanting to travel internationally at least once in 20 years.

[TBoneTX 45,850]

2 hours ago, Going through said:

you must generally apply to renew your expiring Green Card

Like McDonald's saying, "You must generally buy fries with that."  

[Sm1smom 255]

1 hour ago, Going through said:

Take it as you will then.  USCIS's Adjudicator's Policy Manual speaks differently.  And it wasn't required for me, by any means, or others on VJ who've been in the same situation and reported back after their own interviews.

 

Like I said, USCIS will happily take people's money at any time---$725 for the N400 fee, plus $535 for the i-90 fee (to renew a 10-year green card that the OP can use for..what?   A year or so, maybe, before their oath?  Hopefully they have the funds, then, if they feel they "must" renew their GC, instead of "must generally". (if they wish to apply for the N400)

 

Not my money, so I'm ok with whichever decision they make.

 

I’m yet to come across the section of the Adjudicator’s manual that says an expired GC is acceptable for naturalization, so maybe you can show me where it says so? I know the section that says a “valid” GC is required. 

 

By the way, here’s what Emma, USCIS virtual assistant has to say about applying for naturalization with an expired GC: (you can bring her up and ask her about applying for naturalization with an expired GC to see if the response is different from what is posted below):

 

“If you apply for naturalization 6 months or more before the expiration date on your Permanent Resident Card (formerly known as an Alien Registration Card or “Green Card”), you do not have to apply for a new card. However, you may apply for a renewal card if you wish by using an “Application to Replace Permanent Resident Card” (Form I-90) and paying the appropriate fee. If you apply for naturalization less than 6 months before the expiration date on your Permanent Resident Card, or do not apply for naturalization until your card has already expired, you must renew your card.  (Emphasis mine).

 

So yeah, I’ll take it as being required going by what I see on USCIS’s website. 

 

 

 

[dwheels76 5,468]

1 hour ago, Sm1smom said:

 

I’m yet to come across the section of the Adjudicator’s manual that says an expired GC is acceptable for naturalization, so maybe you can show me where it says so? I know the section that says a “valid” GC is required. 

 

By the way, here’s what Emma, USCIS virtual assistant has to say about applying for naturalization with an expired GC: (you can bring her up and ask her about applying for naturalization with an expired GC to see if the response is different from what is posted below):

 

“If you apply for naturalization 6 months or more before the expiration date on your Permanent Resident Card (formerly known as an Alien Registration Card or “Green Card”), you do not have to apply for a new card. However, you may apply for a renewal card if you wish by using an “Application to Replace Permanent Resident Card” (Form I-90) and paying the appropriate fee. If you apply for naturalization less than 6 months before the expiration date on your Permanent Resident Card, or do not apply for naturalization until your card has already expired, you must renew your card.  (Emphasis mine).

 

So yeah, I’ll take it as being required going by what I see on USCIS’s website. 

 

 

 

Of course it's acceptable to file for naturalization with an expired green card (nor 20 years expiry don;t know).

 

But like in my case we filed the Removal of conditions and well as all know the waiting for that is  year pus so a year goes by and bam you are now eligible to file for Citizenship. It ask on the website (Online filing ) just submit photocopy of back and front of green card.

 

All us I-751 filers would be in trouble because about 99% of us file for citizenship with expired cards.