Trump Admin Gives ICE Expedited Removal Authority

[little immigrant 801]

7 minutes ago, Ben & Katy said:

A lot of US Citizens that are falling into this predicament are minorities.  I have seen quite a few african americans detained and mistaken as illegal or legal immigrants that broke the law and end up in deportation by mistake to Jamaica or anywhere else in the Carribean.  A lot of them don't have a passport or a birth certificate on them to help their case while in an American prison. 

That's why I love my passport card. 

[Elif_and_Greg 164]

Yet another reason to immigrate the legal way. 

[HRQX 4,145]

5 hours ago, missileman said:

Yes,  I would think any "citizen" who is deported has been stripped of that citizenship by an IJ before being deported.

Sometimes US-born criminals lie to police and ICE believes those lies; https://www.colorlines.com/articles/how-did-15-year-old-jakadrien-turner-us-citizen-get-deported:

Quote

after she was arrested for shoplifting in Houston and told officials she was a Colombian woman and identified herself as Cortez.

Cortez, it turned out, was wanted on separate warrants, and even though Turner's fingerprints didn't match up with those of the actual Cortez, immigration officials got Colombia to agree to issue the teen travel documents. Turner lived in Colombia for nearly a year, working at a call center until her grandmother's furious search for her led to the girl's release and return to the U.S.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article9028529.html:

Quote

ICE, said that Lyttle had caused the mistake by declaring that he was from Mexico.

Sometimes Border Patrol internal checkpoint officers suspect that authentic documents are fake; https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/23/francisco-erwin-galicia-ice-cpb-us-citizen-detained-texas/:

Quote

Galicia had plenty, including a wallet-sized Texas birth certificate, a Texas ID card and Social Security card, Galan said.

But U.S. Customs and Border Protection detained Galicia anyway over suspicion that his documents were fraudulent

Miscellaneous cases; https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ice-citizen-arrest-20171129-story.html:

Quote

immigration officials scoffed at his repeated claims of citizenship and instead opened a case against him in immigration court to have him deported. It would take four days for government officials to concede their mistake and release Carrillo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/12/04/born-philadelphia-us-citizen-says-he-was-held-deportation-jamaica-ices-request/:

Quote

instead of returning home with a court date, or passing a few days in custody, Brown would spend weeks behind bars, battling his way through a labyrinthine immigration nightmare made all the more baffling by his citizenship. He’s a native-born American.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/01/17/latino-marine-veteran-was-detained-deportation-then-ice-realized-he-was-citizen/

https://www.npr.org/2011/10/24/141500145/in-the-rush-to-deport-expelling-u-s-citizens

Edited July 23, 2019 by HRQX

[Going through 5,671]

That's the only thing that worries me...I wouldn't "pass" for an American citizen...most here in NYC automatically presume I'm Mexican or Columbian because of my skin colour and features (I've been told this many times after I say "sorry I don't speak Spanish" in response to whatever they're saying to me on the street or in a store), and I frequently am in areas where raids have happened in the past...just recently I was in a Trinidadian restaurant and the workers were talking about how ICE was there the day before asking employees about their work authority.

 

I know for the most part it's an unfounded fear...but I do always wonder, in general, how would I prove I'm a US citizen if asked?  ....it's not like US citizens carry their passport around everywhere.  And even if I had a passport card, I doubt I would have always had that on me as well---Even when I was a LPR, if my intention was just running out to do a quick errand,  sometimes I just carried money and keys. I'm not thinking "well, I need to carry my GC" when I'm going to the corner to pick up a pizza I just ordered.

 

I know, I know..."they are detaining criminals only (or those suspected criminals)"...but mistaken identity also happens.  My question is how does one prove they're a citizen while detained with no proof of that citizenship on them?  And if they do have proof somehow, prove that it's not fraudulent documents? (like the case quoted before in Texas of a US-born person detained.)

Edited July 23, 2019 by Going through

[RLA 323]

6 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

"U.S. citizens account for about 1% percent of those detained by ICE and about 0.5% of those deported, according to Stevens’ research." 

1% and 0.5% sound small, but at >13,000 ICE arrests per month that means that >130 U.S. citizens get arrested and >65 deported every month.  Too many, for my taste, to cut down on due process. 

 

Another interesting text on that issue: 

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/us-citizens-targeted-ice-us-citizens-targeted

 

Quotes: 

 

"Unlike with criminal warrants, an ICE agent can issue a detainer without first presenting evidence of probable cause to a federal judge."

 

"These cases can be so difficult that even the Board of Immigration Appeals admitted in 2015 that it had misinterpreted citizenship law and wrongfully denied some people’s U.S. citizenship claims for seven years."

[little immigrant 801]

4 hours ago, Going through said:

That's the only thing that worries me...I wouldn't "pass" for an American citizen...most here in NYC automatically presume I'm Mexican or Columbian because of my skin colour and features (I've been told this many times after I say "sorry I don't speak Spanish" in response to whatever they're saying to me on the street or in a store), and I frequently am in areas where raids have happened in the past...just recently I was in a Trinidadian restaurant and the workers were talking about how ICE was there the day before asking employees about their work authority.

 

I know for the most part it's an unfounded fear...but I do always wonder, in general, how would I prove I'm a US citizen if asked?  ....it's not like US citizens carry their passport around everywhere.  And even if I had a passport card, I doubt I would have always had that on me as well---Even when I was a LPR, if my intention was just running out to do a quick errand,  sometimes I just carried money and keys. I'm not thinking "well, I need to carry my GC" when I'm going to the corner to pick up a pizza I just ordered.

 

I know, I know..."they are detaining criminals only (or those suspected criminals)"...but mistaken identity also happens.  My question is how does one prove they're a citizen while detained with no proof of that citizenship on them?  And if they do have proof somehow, prove that it's not fraudulent documents? (like the case quoted before in Texas of a US-born person detained.)

I don't even want to think about it. But it seems that even if you carry your US passport with you it's not a guarantee you won't get detained:

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-marine-ice-detained-passport

 

What a nightmare. 

[fip & jim 452]

5 minutes ago, little immigrant said:

I don't even want to think about it. But it seems that even if you carry your US passport with you it's not a guarantee you won't get detained:

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-marine-ice-detained-passport

 

What a nightmare. 

 

OK. But... 

 

Ramos-Gomez was arrested by the Grand Rapids Police on Nov. 21 on suspicion of attempting to start a fire in a stairwell at a hospital and trying to reach the facility’s helipad, according to his attorneys and local law enforcement. 

 

It wasn't like he was just detained because he was strolling down the street and they picked on him. 

 

Of all the legal immigrant and citizen cases of ICE detaining I've been reading so far it's because:

• Some illegal activity has implicated the person
• They weren't carrying adequate documentation
• They lied about their status

4 hours ago, Going through said:

Even when I was a LPR, if my intention was just running out to do a quick errand,  sometimes I just carried money and keys. I'm not thinking "well, I need to carry my GC" when I'm going to the corner to pick up a pizza I just ordered.

And this. It's the law to carry your green card. My green card is in my wallet and it's my habit to leave the house with my wallet and my keys. I never, ever leave the house without my wallet. And my green card is in my wallet. Why would you? Why risk it? You think ICE is going to care that you've been negligent in protecting yourself? 

[HRQX 4,145]

10 minutes ago, fip & jim said:

OK. But... 

 

Ramos-Gomez was arrested by the Grand Rapids Police on Nov. 21 on suspicion of attempting to start a fire in a stairwell at a hospital and trying to reach the facility’s helipad, according to his attorneys and local law enforcement. 

 

It wasn't like he was just detained because he was strolling down the street and they picked on him.

The Grand Rapids PD detainment isn't the issue. The transfer to ICE custody is the issue. The police report listed the documents, including his valid US passport, he had in his possession. Yet ICE told the following to a local reporter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Marvis_Herring/status/1085732695072624640 So either the local police report is inaccurate or the ICE statement is flawed.

Edited July 24, 2019 by HRQX

[Going through 5,671]

19 minutes ago, fip & jim said:

And this. It's the law to carry your green card. My green card is in my wallet and it's my habit to leave the house with my wallet and my keys. I never, ever leave the house without my wallet. And my green card is in my wallet. Why would you? Why risk it? You think ICE is going to care that you've been negligent in protecting yourself? 

I know it's the law---and I always normally did carry my GC with me, and it was in my wallet as well when I had one.

If I'm going literally next door for 10 minutes to feed the neighbor's cat, I'm not carrying my wallet with me...if I'm going a literal 15 feet away from my front step to buy a slice of pizza and bring it back home, I'm not carrying my wallet with me (just 5 bucks in my pocket and my keys)

 

And, more to the point, now that I'm NOT a LPR but a citizen instead---what would you suggest I carry with me then?  

Like you said, ICE isn't going to care about people being "negligent in protecting themself"---so am I negligent then by not carrying my US passport everywhere I go?

 

I don't know about other people...but the only time my passport is in my possession is when I'm traveling through an airport.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Going through

[fip & jim 452]

1 minute ago, Going through said:

I know it's the law---and I always normally did carry my GC with me, and it was in my wallet as well when I had one.

If I'm going literally next door for 10 minutes to feed the neighbor's cat, I'm not carrying my wallet with me...if I'm going a literal 15 feet away from my front step to buy a slice of pizza and bring it back home, I'm not carrying my wallet with me (just 5 bucks in my pocket and my keys)

 

And, more to the point, now that I'm NOT a LPR but a citizen instead---what would you suggest I carry with me then?  

Like you said, ICE isn't going to care about people being "negligent in protecting themself"---so am I negligent then by not carrying my US passport everywhere I go?

Why are you getting defensive with me? You think I agree with all of this? No, I do not. I think it's wise to do everything in your power to protect yourself. It's your choice not to carry your green card. It's not a choice I'd make, but that's your decision. I evaluate the risk and cost to me and my family if I fail to make wise, informed choices and act accordingly. 

 

I'm not at the stage you're at. I don't know what you should carry. That's years away for me. What I do know is that when I am a citizen I will make sure I know what to carry. I'm already paying attention and evaluating. 

 

 

[Going through 5,671]

Just now, fip & jim said:

Why are you getting defensive with me?

Uhm...I wasn't.  My initial post in this thread was about "what should I carry with me now?"  So I asked you the same question incase you had a suggestion.

 

1 minute ago, fip & jim said:

What I do know is that when I am a citizen I will make sure I know what to carry. I'm already paying attention and evaluating. 

That's the crux of the issue though....there is really nothing you CAN carry to prove you're a USC...unless one plans on toting their passport around everywhere they go.

[fip & jim 452]

1 minute ago, Going through said:

Uhm...I wasn't.  My initial post in this thread was about "what should I carry with me now?"  So I asked you the same question incase you had a suggestion.

 

That's the crux of the issue though....there is really nothing you CAN carry to prove you're a USC...unless one plans on toting their passport around everywhere they go.

Nothing? 

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/A4en.pdf

 

You may not like what you may need to show to prove citizenship, but it's certainly not nothing. 

[Going through 5,671]

3 minutes ago, fip & jim said:

Nothing? 

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/A4en.pdf

 

You may not like what you may need to show to prove citizenship, but it's certainly not nothing. 

What you've linked to looks like a pamphlet on information about applying for the N600?

 

From that link:

 

What documents are usually accepted as proof of U.S. citizenship? The most common documents that establish U.S. citizenship are:

• Birth Certificate, issued by a U.S. State (if the person was born in the United States), or by the U.S. Department of State (if the person was born abroad to U.S. citizen parents who registered the child’s birth and U.S. citizenship with the U.S. Embassy or consulate);  Ok well I don't have this, obviously.

• U.S. Passport, issued by the U.S. Department of State; I do have this, but not planning on carrying with me everywhere I go for the rest of my life.

• Certificate of Citizenship, issued to a person born outside the United States who derived or acquired U.S. citizenship through a U.S. citizen parent; Don't have one of these either.

• Naturalization Certificate, issued to a person who became a U.S. citizen after 18 years of age through the naturalization process.  In my opinion, a person would have to be a complete moron to carry their Naturalization Certificate with them everywhere they go.  I could just imagine the horrors of it getting wet, getting bent, getting left behind somewhere.

 

So we're kind of back to having the US passport.  Which, as evidenced in one of the articles above, still wasn't good enough for ICE.

I'm curious (not being snarky)...would you be comfortable carrying your Naturalization Certificate and/or passport everywhere you go?  Those two documents are not something that can easily fit into a wallet...don't know if photocopies would be good enough for ICE, either---something tells me they'd insist on seeing the originals.

[HRQX 4,145]

2 minutes ago, Going through said:

Those two documents are not something that can easily fit into a wallet...

The passport card is wallet sized:

[fip & jim 452]

2 minutes ago, Going through said:

What you've linked to looks like a pamphlet on information about applying for the N600?

 

From that link:

 

What documents are usually accepted as proof of U.S. citizenship? The most common documents that establish U.S. citizenship are:

• Birth Certificate, issued by a U.S. State (if the person was born in the United States), or by the U.S. Department of State (if the person was born abroad to U.S. citizen parents who registered the child’s birth and U.S. citizenship with the U.S. Embassy or consulate);  Ok well I don't have this, obviously.

• U.S. Passport, issued by the U.S. Department of State; I do have this, but not planning on carrying with me everywhere I go for the rest of my life.

• Certificate of Citizenship, issued to a person born outside the United States who derived or acquired U.S. citizenship through a U.S. citizen parent; Don't have one of these either.

• Naturalization Certificate, issued to a person who became a U.S. citizen after 18 years of age through the naturalization process.  In my opinion, a person would have to be a complete moron to carry their Naturalization Certificate with them everywhere they go.  I could just imagine the horrors of it getting wet, getting bent, getting left behind somewhere.

 

So we're kind of back to having the US passport.  Which, as evidenced in one of the articles above, still wasn't good enough for ICE.

I'm curious (not being snarky)...would you be comfortable carrying your Naturalization Certificate and/or passport everywhere you go?  Those two documents are not something that can easily fit into a wallet...don't know if photocopies would be good enough for ICE, either---something tells me they'd insist on seeing the originals.

I'd take every action to protect myself and my family, and I have. Here's a list of what I carried so far:

• Before marriage - passport with valid I-94
• After marriage - copy of marriage certificate and passport with valid I-94
• After filing for AOS - copy of marriage certificate, passport and copy of cover letter for filing for AOS/EAD/AP
• After filing for AOS has been received by USCIS - copy of marriage certificate, passport and copy of NOA1 (I-797) for AOS
• If EAD/AP is issued before green card - copy of marriage certificate, passport and EAD/AP
• After conditional green card is received - just green card (the law. Can be fined and/or arrested for not carrying it)

It's a weak argument to presume someone else wouldn't be willing to carry documentation and call them a complete moron for doing so. 

 

I could just imagine the horrors of it getting wet, getting bent, getting left behind somewhere.

 

Compared to the horrors of being detained, bail for thousands of dollars and possible deportation? Keep scanned copies, copies in a safe and keep yourself safe.