Daniel Turner: California's latest descent into liberal madness – Berkeley bans natural gas

[laylalex 7,300]

48 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

I mean this in the best possible way: Laylalex means well, and her personality certainly is endearing. I suspect, however, she is a bit overindulged. Her outlook on life shows a naivete that is charming but unrealistic. Again, I mean this in the best possible sense. It's a nice to world she lives in, but unfortunate that it's a fiction.

Thank you... I guess? I wouldn't say I'm overindulged, even though I know I have been very lucky. I mean, I'm a middle class, heterosexual white woman. I am blessed with good health and a family and friends who have been my rock when I was at my lowest. I never have to worry about the wolf being at the door. I have a roof over my head and can pay my bills. I wouldn't call that overindulgence, even if I don't face some of the hardships that other women do, like racial or sexual orientation discrimination. I try to do good in the world in the ways that I can, and the ways that I can are giving time and money. I have had times in my life when I have had more of both, and in turn I gave more of both. 

 

I also wouldn't say I'm that naive. I've lived through a marriage breakdown that ripped my sense of self apart, totally annihilated me for a time. I had lost myself in the marriage, and without it, I had to reestablish who I am. I learned a lot about who I really am during that time, what I want, what I will put up with and won't. I can say I was naive before, lived in a bubble of privilege, but now... not so much. I live in a little city with big city problems -- how buildings get powered is not one of them! There are HUGE problems with income inequality here, a knock on effect from the general Bay Area tech salary craziness. Don't get me wrong, my fiance is one who benefits from that craziness, but it forces out people of our community, leaving a hole in the middle. We have the very rich and the very poor, plus students. It's an artificial situation that just isn't sustainable. I guess... that's the market at work, some would say. But what is fair about that?

 

37 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

It has got to be tough living in your ivory tower, too intelligent, too worldly and too insightful to converse with mere humans on an equal level. Your discussions are insulting, your method of delivery is over the top and you are rude and I do mean that in the most positive way.

I don't think that's very fair. Boris has a very blunt way of putting things, true, but it's not necessarily that different from some of the other discussions I've seen in here. I may not have been posting long in here, but I did read for quite a while before I did (I was scared to!). I have seen a lot of OTT things said in other threads. I think if we can discuss heated issues with each other without resorting to personal insults, we'll all do a lot better towards getting to know each other as real people, which can only be a good thing!  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

18 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

cease the bickering.

Love the demonstration of requirements and power.  It appears you had NB help on the spaeling, too.

[TBoneTX 46,013]

58 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

cease the bickering

...as well as veiled or actual insults against other posters and minority groups.

[Boris Farage 353]

33 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I also wouldn't say I'm that naive. I've lived through a marriage breakdown that ripped my sense of self apart, totally annihilated me for a time. I had lost myself in the marriage, and without it, I had to reestablish who I am. I learned a lot about who I really am during that time, what I want, what I will put up with and won't. I can say I was naive before, lived in a bubble of privilege, but now... not so much. I live in a little city with big city problems -- how buildings get powered is not one of them! There are HUGE problems with income inequality here, a knock on effect from the general Bay Area tech salary craziness. Don't get me wrong, my fiance is one who benefits from that craziness, but it forces out people of our community, leaving a hole in the middle. We have the very rich and the very poor, plus students. It's an artificial situation that just isn't sustainable. I guess... that's the market at work, some would say. But what is fair about that?

Have I mentioned overly-dramatic? 😉 I kid. It's nice that you listen to all sides, but a firm personal philosophy (based on the facts of course) keeps you from being overwhelmed from all camps. Naturally I would expect you to eventually come to my side, but if you believe it takes a personal journey then by all means, pack your baggage. I will wait patiently at the destination. 😉

 

More on-topic, income inequality will always exist. (see my "class exists and it is a good thing" post) but the "artificial situation" you speak of doesn't have to exist. It only exists because the free hand of the market is tied down by possibly even well-meant injections of socialism.

 

33 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I don't think that's very fair. Boris has a very blunt way of putting things, true, but it's not necessarily that different from some of the other discussions I've seen in here. I may not have been posting long in here, but I did read for quite a while before I did (I was scared to!). I have seen a lot of OTT things said in other threads. I think if we can discuss heated issues with each other without resorting to personal insults, we'll all do a lot better towards getting to know each other as real people, which can only be a good thing!  

Guilty as charged. Over the last decade, I've noticed Americans don't much care for the efficient directness we Brits are known for. I'll admit it's caused some hurt feelings. Believe it or not, I've adjusted where I can. But ultimately the leopard cannot change its spots. It does rub some the wrong direction, but as my local barista so colourfully phrased it, "I'm just keepin' it real yo."

[TBoneTX 46,013]

21 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

as my local barista so colourfully phrased it, "I'm just keepin' it real yo."

Within the Terms of Service, of course.  

[Boris Farage 353]

11 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Within the Terms of Service, of course.  

Always, even when feathers are ruffled. I have a great deal of respect for you cat herders, it is a thankless job... but thank you.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Boris Farage
removed a word

[TBoneTX 46,013]

Remember the hammering powers of bans... er, the banning powers of hammers... er, uh... Charles please help...

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

46 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Have I mentioned overly-dramatic? 😉 I kid. It's nice that you listen to all sides, but a firm personal philosophy (based on the facts of course) keeps you from being overwhelmed from all camps. Naturally I would expect you to eventually come to my side, but if you believe it takes a personal journey then by all means, pack your baggage. I will wait patiently at the destination. 😉

 

More on-topic, income inequality will always exist. (see my "class exists and it is a good thing" post) but the "artificial situation" you speak of doesn't have to exist. It only exists because the free hand of the market is tied down by possibly even well-meant injections of socialism.

 

Guilty as charged. Over the last decade, I've noticed Americans don't much care for the efficient directness we Brits are known for. I'll admit it's caused some hurt feelings. Believe it or not, I've adjusted where I can. But ultimately the leopard cannot change its spots. It does rub some the wrong direction, but as my local barista so colourfully phrased it, "I'm just keepin' it real yo."

I'm pretty blunt by nature as well.  Nothing wrong with that when it comes to facts.  Opinion,  OTOH, should be softened a bit to be more palatable, I have found.

 

VJ has softened me up quite a bit.  Don't worry, you'll find your own soft spot if ye remain here long.  😇

[Boris Farage 353]

5 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I'm pretty blunt by nature as well.  Nothing wrong with that when it comes to facts.  Opinion,  OTOH, should be softened a bit to be more palatable, I have found.

Oh but my opinions ARE facts. 😉

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

12 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Oh but my opinions ARE facts. 😉

 

12 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Oh but my opinions ARE facts. 😉

Of few of us think likewise

Edited July 25, 2019 by Randyandyuni

[Boris Farage 353]

Randyanduni, I'd be curious to know your thoughts on either the main topic, or any of the sub-topics that have branched off during the course of this dialog. It seems to have evolved into an overarching theme of free market forces vs socialism, and of course I've made my own position known. As laylalex informs us, a variety of considered opinions leads to richer conversation.

[laylalex 7,300]

35 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Oh but my opinions ARE facts. 😉

God, if I had a dollar for every time I heard my ex say that! 

 

I was watching the Mueller testimony yesterday at work and I heard one of the guests say in one of the breaks something like, "we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable" and it really resonated with me. I guess... one of my fears about coming to post in here was that I saw SO much heated discussion about admittedly controversial topics. I want to hear opposing viewpoints, and it's great to get passionate about things we're passionate about, but being able to have disagreements without resorting to saying "everything is black" or "everything is white" is, I think, a good way to bridge gaps and make connections.  

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

IMO, municipal mandates such as this are at best a gesture, too little by too few to make any impact. I also believe that by applying the electric only nature of the law to  new builds, it solves nothing, in an established community, what percentage of the buildings are new, 5 or  10 percent tops

 

i am against redistribution of wealth to soften perceived inequities, but do support actions undertaken for the commomwealth

Edited July 25, 2019 by Randyandyuni

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

14 minutes ago, laylalex said:

God, if I had a dollar for every time I heard my ex say that! 

 

I was watching the Mueller testimony yesterday at work and I heard one of the guests say in one of the breaks something like, "we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable" and it really resonated with me. I guess... one of my fears about coming to post in here was that I saw SO much heated discussion about admittedly controversial topics. I want to hear opposing viewpoints, and it's great to get passionate about things we're passionate about, but being able to have disagreements without resorting to saying "everything is black" or "everything is white" is, I think, a good way to bridge gaps and make connections.  

It's fine to be passionate about ones convictions,  and even to voice them out publicly or online.  Just don't get upset when you don't have others agreeing with you.  You're not going to change anyone's 99.9% of the time.  But it can be beneficial to entertain other ideas.  

 

Having been on this forum for several years, I have read some kooky stuff from both sides of any argument.  And I have read reasoned, well-thought-out responses from differing viewpoints.   One makes me SMH, and the other helps to open my mind to different viewpoints.   Perhaps not enough to sway my convictions, but enough to modify them a bit.  

 

I am guilty of using words that are not soft, and the written word often comes across harsher than the spoken ones. But at the end of the day, I'd like to think that I can get along with just about anyone IRL, and would enjoy discussing some of our topics here in person over a beverage with just about anyone.   In fact, I have actually met about six or seven CEHST members in person over the years,  to include a very sweet former mod.  

 

We all want the same.things, for the most part... good life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness are among them.  We might see different paths towards those goals, but we are all part of the human race, which isn't a race at all.  Just a manner of life until we perish.  Hopefully, happy and peacefully.

[Boris Farage 353]

1 hour ago, Randyandyuni said:

IMO, municipal mandates such as this are at best a gesture, too little by too few to make any impact. I also believe that by applying the electric only nature of the law to  new builds, it solves nothing, in an established community, what percentage of the buildings are new, 5 or  10 percent tops

 

i am against redistribution of wealth to soften perceived inequities, but do support actions undertaken for the commomwealth

Mirrors my own thoughts, although I would say that "actions undertaken for the commonwealth" should really just be to take a market approach. Everything works out in the end after that.