Hague Adoption Process Question -- Can my English niece come to live with us?

[Zoeeeeeee 797]

1 minute ago, SusieQQQ said:

Uni may not be cheap anymore in the UK, but it's much cheaper than the US per year, and it's only 3 years not 4. And do they still have that system where you don't start paying back student loans until you're earning a certain amount of income?

 

Agree with the last line zoeeeeee says above too. The cheapest private school I know of locally is $22k a year, not high school. The high schools run around $50k a year. I daresay the equivalent of two years of private high school in the US is about enough to support the niece through A-levels and a 3-year uni degree. The college funds apparently available for the eldest could do the same for the other two.

I would imagine it’s cheaper than uni in the US (though I’ve only attended uni in England) - and yes, you only start to pay back when you’re earning an appropriate amount 🙃.

 

We don’t pay for A-levels by the way - they’re free, at school or at a college (I actually have double the regular amount of A-levels, as I did some at school, then went on to do more at college afterwards, all for free, before going to uni at 20)...it’s just uni you pay for here.

[SalishSea 17,829]

54 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

The high schools run around $50k a year.

Wow.  That is the cost of out of state tuition for UC Berkeley!

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

1 hour ago, Zoeeeeeee said:

I would imagine it’s cheaper than uni in the US (though I’ve only attended uni in England) - and yes, you only start to pay back when you’re earning an appropriate amount 🙃.

 

We don’t pay for A-levels by the way - they’re free, at school or at a college (I actually have double the regular amount of A-levels, as I did some at school, then went on to do more at college afterwards, all for free, before going to uni at 20)...it’s just uni you pay for here.

Well, the "cheap" colleges here run $15-20k a year, usually for instate (some states are desperate to get students and offer great out of state merit; not sure the niece will want to do Nebraska or Alabama though). As Jorgedig mentions the top publics for out of state can be as expensive as private, fees generally somewhere around $50k a year. For four years. And once you add in dorms, books etc it is pretty easy to get to $75-80k if you are full pay. The top colleges tend to give really good aid but only with demonstrated need. By contrast, most UK unis, including the top ones, are around £9k a year tuition. For 3 years.

Edited July 3, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

10 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

Wow.  That is the cost of out of state tuition for UC Berkeley!

Exactly, it's akin to private university tuition or OOS for top publics.

And those are just "normal" private schools. I understand the top college prep privates in the northeast are even more than that.

[SalishSea 17,829]

Just now, SusieQQQ said:

Exactly, it's akin to private university tuition or OOS for top publics.

And those are just "normal" private schools. I understand the top college prep privates in the northeast are even more than that.

Cheaper to live in an excellent school district and have your kids pursue IB diploma/AP/Cambridge etc.  That's what I did, and they ended up at Berkeley and University of Washington.  Wayyyy cheaper in the long run, although the property taxes are painful, LOL.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

3 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

Cheaper to live in an excellent school district and have your kids pursue IB diploma/AP/Cambridge etc.  That's what I did, and they ended up at Berkeley and University of Washington.  Wayyyy cheaper in the long run, although the property taxes are painful, LOL.

 

Lol, we are in a fantastic public school district,  like you stupid property taxes but the kids get into great schools.... but does my kid want to take advantage of the local system and go the UC route, noooooo lol .  At least you had one instate?

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[Boiler 45,513]

A lot of excellent points, which I suggest A Levels first. Let us see what the OP is thinking.

[alexandaaron 13]

On 7/2/2019 at 10:13 PM, JFH said:

 

Student visas require the individual to demonstrate irrefutable evidence that they will return home at the end of the course of study. Based on your post, the intention is to have her live with you permanently, not just for as long as she has left at school. Not only that, transitioning into a different school system at her age is going to be very, very difficult. It’s also very expensive - to the point where if you can afford that, you can afford to pay for home help/a nanny for your sister-in-law. There are also plenty of government support systems in the UK for single parents and children from deprived homes. It’s the land of the welfare state, after all.

 

As the child is related to you, is not an orphan,  and in a Hague country, you can only adopt her if you had physical and legal custody of her in her homeland (the UK) before starting the adoption. Are you planning to move to the UK?

Whoa! Couple of responses here:

1. Our intention is not for her to live with us permanently -- it is for her to live with us until she is through her schooling and then go off to university, after which point we presume she will be off to live her own life and start her career, most likely in the country of her birth but possibly in the US.

 

2. The issue with her mother is not about money. Bringing in a nanny will not put an end to the other issues that make her mother unable to care for her adequately. And I'm also not certain what a nanny would be expected to do for a 15 year old?

 

3. As I understand it, the 2 year residency is not required for a Hague adoption, but is strictly required for non-Hague adoptions? Regardless, we cannot move to the UK, as my husband hasn't yet completed his own immigration process and we are not able to reside anywhere besides the US at the moment.

[alexandaaron 13]

On 7/2/2019 at 10:13 PM, Boiler said:

The one I would go for you have not mentioned, get her A Levels, then a F1 to study at a US University which you can fund.

 

Moving at this sort of age between very different system would not be a good idea.

 

 

I appreciate the concern for her education, but honestly, any situation would be better than what's currently underway; she is struggling to even attend school at all, and is at high risk of dropping or failing out -- she has recently missed all her mock exams for A levels due to her mother's behavior.

[alexandaaron 13]

On 7/2/2019 at 10:22 PM, USS_Voyager said:

I know nothing about the Hague Convention so someone else has to chime in. As far the other options, the best one and least expensive one is to do the community college and transfer to. 4 year university. Option 1 and 2 are very expensive and disruptive. Have you looked up costs of private high school? It’s more than college! Unless you’re super indenpndently wealthy, I wouldn’t consider that. 

 

I don’t think so. Lots of people change status from F-1 to others all the time. I myself changed from F-1 to H1B and eventually got my green card through my employer.

I went to a private high school and found it a reasonable investment; we have very good schools in our area that are under $7k annually, which is comparable to what we'd compensate a public high school for her attendance.

 

Thank you for the second point -- this has been my largest point of concern; I don't want to harm her long-term by trying to help her now.

[alexandaaron 13]

On 7/2/2019 at 10:24 PM, SusieQQQ said:

Assuming she is granted an F visa, only 1 or 3 are options. She cannot attend public high school for longer than one year on an F1 visa (and as you already seem to know, all full unsubsidized costs have to be paid for that yeat).

 

i can’t see why you would want her to continue to a 4-year college in the US when it is cheaper and so are student loans from what I understand, in the UK?

 

My limited understanding of the adoption law as it pertains to immigration indicates this is not an option (2 year residence requirement, parents still alive) but I stand to be corrected. 

The cost of her attending university in the UK would be ~ 9,000 GBP per year without scholarships; at our local in-state university, the cost would be ~ 12,000 USD -- so comparable/equal.

 

Ideally, she wouldn't have student loans.

[SalishSea 17,829]

Just now, alexandaaron said:

The cost of her attending university in the UK would be ~ 9,000 GBP per year without scholarships; at our local in-state university, the cost would be ~ 12,000 USD -- so comparable/equal.

 

Ideally, she wouldn't have student loans.

She wouldn't qualify for in-state tuition on an F-1 visa.   International and out of state students are the bread and butter for public universities.  

[alexandaaron 13]

On 7/2/2019 at 10:47 PM, JFH said:

Indeed! Kids can be very cruel. If you haven’t been skiing in Aspen every Christmas and haven’t been spending your summers at pony camp and at your second home in the Bahamas you will be fair game for the Mean Girls. 

Hogwash. That's a wildly speculative reading of private school experiences; I had none of those things and had a spectacular time in mine -- and am still very close friends with the girls I attended alongside! The culture of the school matters -- the values it instills, the behavior it permits or punishes in students (like snobbery or bullying), and the types of personalities it attracts or selects. We wouldn't stick her in just any random school; we love her!

[alexandaaron 13]

14 hours ago, jan22 said:

There are a lot of steps to an international adoption for immigration to the US that must be done before the child turns 16.  As your neice is already 15, it is highly unlikely you could meet that timeline.

 

As others have pointed out, it would be difficult to switch from a UK to a US system at her age, and proving intent to return to the UK after completing a US high school education would be very difficult.  These factors make a student visa unlikely.

 

But then why do US high school F1 visas exist? Surely there are plenty of international students who come with intent to return home (I went to school with one or two), potentially after completing a US college education but no further.

[alexandaaron 13]

8 hours ago, wbeem said:

To add to this, even going the student route, this could potentially become very traumatic at a later stage. 

With adoption, the biological mother would sign away all her parental rights and responsibilities. You would also need the consent of the biological father, even if he does not have custody. While it appears now as a gesture of kindness to help out a family member, it also holds untold levels of potential emotional and psychological pain and confusion at a later stage. 

On a more practical, family based standpoint, since the OP appears to have a loving and strong relationship with the family, separating a child from her family and siblings also opens up a whole slew of issues. If the struggles, as I understand them to be from the original post, are mainly financial, there is a much better pillar of resources available in the UK.  Let the teen finish her education. Once she has done so, perhaps she could consider a summer camp or some type of short term holiday working visa where she could come and check out where you live and get a taste of the lifestyle here. This is particularly important if she has never visited the US before. Not only is the culture and lifestyle different, but each state and region has their own cultures and history here so it's not as simple as "I've been to America and I know what it's like."   

I definitely appreciate the concern for her well-being; as things stand, she is *in* a traumatic situation at present that has led to significant psychological (and some minor physical) harm to her; our concerns are not primarily monetary. She is currently at risk of not finishing her education at all. She has visited us for a few weeks at a time, but of course you never 100% know what it's like to live somewhere else until you get there!

8 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if you want to help your husband's sister with the children, and have the money to even consider the options you presented - why don't you just help her out financially? I assume she is a fit parent going through a rough financial time so wouldn't that be the least disruptive way to provide support...?

Our concerns about fitness are not primarily financial.