future spouse question

[geowrian 22,337]

6 minutes ago, Co2EEUU said:

It may sound odd, but the U.S. has no interest in whether the father gives authorization for a child to leave.  The Visa is for ENTRY to the U.S., not EXIT from the country of origin.  The only time this would come up is if the child later petitions for a father for a visa, and the father was not listed. 

Not quite. The US has a strong interest in child abduction / smuggling. They have refused to issue a visa for this reason before. They will want to see evidence of authorization to take a child out of the country. The FAM covers this.

[Boiler 45,743]

The Consulate do not want to be complicit in International Child Abduction,.

[Co2EEUU 0]

35 minutes ago, geowrian said:

Not quite. The US has a strong interest in child abduction / smuggling. They have refused to issue a visa for this reason before. They will want to see evidence of authorization to take a child out of the country. The FAM covers this.

What is the "FAM?"  The Foreign Affairs Manual?
 

I've searched the regs (that I know where to find... maybe there are others out there?) and unless something has changed since we went through this exact process, there is no requirement for parental permission to enter the U.S. Parental permission to leave Colombia is another matter.

As far as I know, there is no section that denies a visa based on lack of parental authorization.  There are sections that deny because of suspected fraud, criminal record, lack of financial support, lack of evidence of a relationship, but no section of the code would deny a K-1 visa for lack of parental authorization (because children aren't even required to travel with the parent intending to marry) nor a K-2 visa because the requirements are establishment of relationship, age of eligibility, medical requirements and financial support.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Co2EEUU

[Boiler 45,743]

Foreign Affairs Manual.

[Co2EEUU 0]

https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM050207.html#M502_7_3

 

No authorization needed according to the manual.

[geowrian 22,337]

7 minutes ago, Co2EEUU said:

https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM050207.html#M502_7_3

 

No authorization needed according to the manual.

I see nothing about parental consent there (and that's not the section that would cover it...7 FAM 1700 covers minors in general).

 

The fact is sole custody or a court order is required. The US is not complicit in possible child abduction. They need evidence that the parent isn't running off with a child that the other parent has any rights to. They can't just take one parent's statement at face value.

Now if the mother didn't know who the father was, that's one thing and local laws again dictate the process. But the OP does know who the father is here. They even recently contacted the parent, who apparently now has an interest in the child (not that it's in the child's interest by any means imaginable...but he's on the radar of expressing interest to exercise rights now).

I would add that the US joined the Hague Abduction Convention (as did Colombia).

 

I would also note this official source for Colombia specifically regarding necessary documentation for Colombian children:

https://photos.state.gov/libraries/consulate/29633/consular_images/SpecialEntryRequirementsColombiaDualNationalsandChildren.pdf

Quote

To prevent international child abduction, Colombia has implemented special exit procedures for Colombian children under 18 who depart the country alone, without both parents, or a without a legal guardian.

...

When exiting the country, a certified copy of the child’s birth certificate, along with a written, signed, and notarized authorization from the absent parent(s) or legal guardian must be presented. The authorization must be notarized by a Colombian authority and explicitly grant permission for the child to travel alone, with one parent, or with a named third party. If a parent is deceased, a notarized copy of a death certificate is required. If one parent has sole custody of the child, that parent may present a custody decree instead of the other parent’s written authorization. In cases where a Colombian citizen or dual national child has been adopted in a U.S. Court, the adoption decree must be legalized (Exequatur) by the Colombian Supreme Court.

...

In cases where the absent parent refuses or is unable to provide consent, the other parent can request assistance from Colombia’s child protective service, Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar (ICBF). In appropriate cases, ICBF will investigate and may issue a document that will allow the child to travel without both parents’ consent.

If the left behind parent does not consent to removal and exercises their rights, there are very serious consequences for the taking parent (TP) - potentially having the child extradited back to Colombia and/or criminal charges. Always be 100% sure that one is authorized to take a child out of the country before doing so...it's not worth it to even try to skirt the lines.

[Co2EEUU 0]

Here is the section you quoted.  Again, nothing about visa issuance:  https://fam.state.gov/FAM/07FAM/07FAM1710.html


 

[geowrian 22,337]

So is the suggestion that the US will issue a visa to a minor to travel abroad (with intention to immigrate even) without checking if the other parent has any rights to the child? So if there was an active visitation order, one parent could just take the other child (so long as they can find a way to physically get them out of the country)?

The CO has no way to know or verify if there are active orders or the custody arrangement, so they should just assume there is none? Or take the one parent at their word? Then CBP would admit them to the country also without checking any of this?

 

COs are familiar with local requirements. The case presented here is far from unique. If local laws require permission from the other parent for the child to travel, then one must comply.

[Co2EEUU 0]

4 hours ago, geowrian said:

So is the suggestion that the US will issue a visa to a minor to travel abroad (with intention to immigrate even) without checking if the other parent has any rights to the child? So if there was an active visitation order, one parent could just take the other child (so long as they can find a way to physically get them out of the country)?

The CO has no way to know or verify if there are active orders or the custody arrangement, so they should just assume there is none? Or take the one parent at their word? Then CBP would admit them to the country also without checking any of this?

 

COs are familiar with local requirements. The case presented here is far from unique. If local laws require permission from the other parent for the child to travel, then one must comply.

The U.S. does not issue a visa to travel abroad.  The U.S. issues a visa to enter the U.S.  There is no jurisdiction over active visitation orders.  That is a Colombian issue.  And that visitation order would have no bearing on the parent trying to get into the U.S.  Its irrelevant to the issuance of a K2/K4 visa.

Look at the K2/K4 regs posted from the FAM.  THere is nothing there about visitation orders or permission.  What must be proven is familial relationship, health and financial support.  Go ahead and look through all the required documentation.  You won't find parental authorization as any of the requirements.

While the parents have to comply with Colombian Law, Colombian Law does not dictate the documentation that the U.S. can require.

The U.S. does not and cannot enforce Colombian borders.  Just as Colombia cannot tell the U.S. who can enter the U.S., the U.S. cannot tell Colombia who can leave.

[geowrian 22,337]

There is no jurisdictional issue here. The US issues visa to enter the US. They have absolute say over the requirements to obtain a visa.

There's nothing in the K2/K4 regulations referenced above cover false documents, lying, etc. But they still apply via the other provisions. The requirement applies to any visa, not just a K-2.

The US cannot tell Colombia how to police its borders, true. But it has no obligation to (nor interest in) aid in the process to abduct a child either. They aren't saying who can leave the country....they just won't provide them a means to do so via entry to the US.

if Colombian law provides for not having the permission of the biological parent since they are not on the BC, then there's no issue. If Colombian law requires it, the CO will want to see evidence of compliance with that.