Obtaining police certificate *AS A CHINESE CITIZEN*

[Hemutian 68]

First of all, I am aware that there are other recent posts in this forum regarding the infamous police certificate. However, it seems that they are pertaining to circumstances different than (and more complicated than) mine. These other posts concern beneficiaries who are not Chinese but who lived in China at some point in the past and are trying to obtain police certificates from China. My beneficiary (fiancee) is Chinese herself. 

 

We’re in the process of gathering her required documents before the interview. In a few days we’re traveling to her hometown in order to get her birth certificate (she was born in a rural area and never issued one at birth), as well as her police certificate. We’re told the birth certificate shouldn’t be a problem, as long as she has her Chinese ID card and hukou book. However based on what we’re heard from other Chinese and on the Chinese internet, we’re worried about the police certificate.

 

In short, we’ve been told that the police certificate (i.e. “certificate of no criminal record”) can be extraordinarily difficult to obtain in China, even for Chinese citizens. We’ve heard horror stories from people who spent days trying to get this document to no avail. We’ve heard stories about people needing to bribe Chinese government officials in order to finally get this document. We’ve read articles on the Chinese internet claiming that this document is impossible to get, because China recently passed a new law that that only official government organizations may request a police certificate, not individual citizens. We’ve read that the only way to obtain it is if a representative of the organization requesting it (in this case the US consulate in Guangzhou) physically goes to the police station in my fiancee’s hometown (in rural China) and requests it. Obviously, there’s no way that’s happening.

 

So, we’re quite nervous about this next step.

 

That’s why I’m posting this. Can folks on here who have been through this step (where the beneficiary is Chinese, not a citizen of a third country) please share with us your stories of how you got this document? Are the horror stories really true? Is it really that difficult? What tips do you have?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited June 28, 2019 by Hemutian

[RandyW 149]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:19 PM, Hemutian said:

Are the horror stories really true?

 

What horror stories?

 

Simple answer - ask at the PSB. If they won't issue you one, take names (at a minimum, the office where you asked). Report these to the consulate, along with the REASONS you were denied, in lieu of the police report.

 

See http://candleforlove.com/forums/topic/48295-chinese-essential-documents-white-books/?p=629619

[Hemutian 68]

9 minutes ago, RandyW said:

 

What horror stories?

 

Simple answer - ask at the PSB. If they won't issue you one, take names (at a minimum, the office where you asked). Report these to the consulate, along with the REASONS you were denied, in lieu of the police report.

 

See http://candleforlove.com/forums/topic/48295-chinese-essential-documents-white-books/?p=629619

Here are some examples of the "horror stories"...

 

• PSB officers simply refuse to grant the police certificate of no criminal record.

 

• Repeated visits to the PSB necessary over several days/weeks before PSB officers finally relent and grant the certificate of no criminal record.

 

• China actually passing a new law which states that individual citizens may not obtain a police certificate of no criminal record

 

• Said law stating that only government organizations may request a police certificate of no criminal record, and that a representative of said government organization must show up in person at PSB to make said request (fat chance of US Consulate in Guangzhou sending a representative to my fiancee's hometown in rural China on her behalf)

 

• Stories from people unable to obtain the police certificate of no criminal record, explaining this to the Consulate as you suggested, but still being denied a visa on account of missing this crucial document.

 

My objective in posting this was to see what the experience of others navigating the K1 process in China has been. To see if there's any truth to the "horror stories" or to gauge if they're just exaggerations or idiosyncratic circumstances unique to certain individuals but not widespread.

[RandyW 149]

Yes, well - Step 1 - go to the PSB

I waited before posting the above to first see if someone would respond with more recent stories of what "the experience of others navigating the K1 process in China has been".

 

Realize that the Consulate can check up on your story.

[RandyW 149]

 .  . . also check with the notarial office to make sure you are doing the right thing.

[Susaan 2]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:19 PM, Hemutian said:

First of all, I am aware that there are other recent posts in this forum regarding the infamous police certificate. However, it seems that they are pertaining to circumstances different than (and more complicated than) mine. These other posts concern beneficiaries who are not Chinese but who lived in China at some point in the past and are trying to obtain police certificates from China. My beneficiary (fiancee) is Chinese herself. 

 

We’re in the process of gathering her required documents before the interview. In a few days we’re traveling to her hometown in order to get her birth certificate (she was born in a rural area and never issued one at birth), as well as her police certificate. We’re told the birth certificate shouldn’t be a problem, as long as she has her Chinese ID card and hukou book. However based on what we’re heard from other Chinese and on the Chinese internet, we’re worried about the police certificate.

 

In short, we’ve been told that the police certificate (i.e. “certificate of no criminal record”) can be extraordinarily difficult to obtain in China, even for Chinese citizens. We’ve heard horror stories from people who spent days trying to get this document to no avail. We’ve heard stories about people needing to bribe Chinese government officials in order to finally get this document. We’ve read articles on the Chinese internet claiming that this document is impossible to get, because China recently passed a new law that that only official government organizations may request a police certificate, not individual citizens. We’ve read that the only way to obtain it is if a representative of the organization requesting it (in this case the US consulate in Guangzhou) physically goes to the police station in my fiancee’s hometown (in rural China) and requests it. Obviously, there’s no way that’s happening.

 

So, we’re quite nervous about this next step.

 

That’s why I’m posting this. Can folks on here who have been through this step (where the beneficiary is Chinese, not a citizen of a third country) please share with us your stories of how you got this document? Are the horror stories really true? Is it really that difficult? What tips do you have?

 

Thanks in advance!

Actually, it wasn't that hard to get. It did took a minimum of a week; but it was fairly easy to get with no bribe or any issues. Not sure if they charged for the certificate but definitely no bribe. Though, getting a ticket and waiting for a notary officer to call you is a very long line (unless you go really early.. like before they open and become one of the first people in line) please don't be scared. Just go to your notary office. I just got mine done last month!

[Hemutian 68]

8 hours ago, Susaan said:

Actually, it wasn't that hard to get. It did took a minimum of a week; but it was fairly easy to get with no bribe or any issues. Not sure if they charged for the certificate but definitely no bribe. Though, getting a ticket and waiting for a notary officer to call you is a very long line (unless you go really early.. like before they open and become one of the first people in line) please don't be scared. Just go to your notary office. I just got mine done last month!

Hi Susaan,

 

Thanks for your response. It's encouraging to hear that this step was not too difficult for you.

Although even a week is a long time, because my fiancee needs to travel back to her home town in the countryside and it's really hard to get that much time off work, but at least it sounds like the certificate is doable, and that's the most important thing.

 

Do you mind if I ask you a couple follow-up questions?

• Is your hukou based in a small town, or a big city?
• Did you just go straight to the notary office, rather than the PSB?
• Did you bring any documentation to prove that you need this certificate, such as the P4 letter from the US Consulate?
• What country is your fiancee/petitioner from? I'm just worried that because I'm American and US/Chinese relations have been getting worse recently, that the PSB might refuse to grant her the certificate for political reasons.

Matt

[givionte 138]

My Chinese wife and I obtained her no criminal record police certificate from a small town a couple weeks ago ,and it only took about 15 minutes to obtain after finding the correct police office to go to.  The first police office we were told to go to actually was now exclusively a detention center, and they told us to go down a couple blocks to a new office.  She showed her ID, filled out a form of her intent to emigrate, and they quickly handed it over.

 

For Chinese citizens it shouldn't be problem, the majority of the time.  While she didn't need to show her hukou, some cities may require it.  I would bring your fiancees ID, hukou, and passport, just to be safe.

 

You don't go to the notary office until you have the no criminal record from the local police.  The notary will often be a 1 to 2 week wait.

 

Nobody working in the police office gives a ####### about politics, you aren't going to have a hard time as an American.  They are extremely  bureaucratic and do things by the book and often very slowly, but they don't refuse to help someone just because of their nationality.

[Hemutian 68]

3 hours ago, givionte said:

My Chinese wife and I obtained her no criminal record police certificate from a small town a couple weeks ago ,and it only took about 15 minutes to obtain after finding the correct police office to go to.  The first police office we were told to go to actually was now exclusively a detention center, and they told us to go down a couple blocks to a new office.  She showed her ID, filled out a form of her intent to emigrate, and they quickly handed it over.

 

For Chinese citizens it shouldn't be problem, the majority of the time.  While she didn't need to show her hukou, some cities may require it.  I would bring your fiancees ID, hukou, and passport, just to be safe.

 

You don't go to the notary office until you have the no criminal record from the local police.  The notary will often be a 1 to 2 week wait.

 

Nobody working in the police office gives a ####### about politics, you aren't going to have a hard time as an American.  They are extremely  bureaucratic and do things by the book and often very slowly, but they don't refuse to help someone just because of their nationality.

Hi, 

Thanks for your reply. This is very encouraging news!

Matt

[jjdhs 9]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:19 PM, Hemutian said:

First of all, I am aware that there are other recent posts in this forum regarding the infamous police certificate. However, it seems that they are pertaining to circumstances different than (and more complicated than) mine. These other posts concern beneficiaries who are not Chinese but who lived in China at some point in the past and are trying to obtain police certificates from China. My beneficiary (fiancee) is Chinese herself. 

 

We’re in the process of gathering her required documents before the interview. In a few days we’re traveling to her hometown in order to get her birth certificate (she was born in a rural area and never issued one at birth), as well as her police certificate. We’re told the birth certificate shouldn’t be a problem, as long as she has her Chinese ID card and hukou book. However based on what we’re heard from other Chinese and on the Chinese internet, we’re worried about the police certificate.

 

In short, we’ve been told that the police certificate (i.e. “certificate of no criminal record”) can be extraordinarily difficult to obtain in China, even for Chinese citizens. We’ve heard horror stories from people who spent days trying to get this document to no avail. We’ve heard stories about people needing to bribe Chinese government officials in order to finally get this document. We’ve read articles on the Chinese internet claiming that this document is impossible to get, because China recently passed a new law that that only official government organizations may request a police certificate, not individual citizens. We’ve read that the only way to obtain it is if a representative of the organization requesting it (in this case the US consulate in Guangzhou) physically goes to the police station in my fiancee’s hometown (in rural China) and requests it. Obviously, there’s no way that’s happening.

 

So, we’re quite nervous about this next step.

 

That’s why I’m posting this. Can folks on here who have been through this step (where the beneficiary is Chinese, not a citizen of a third country) please share with us your stories of how you got this document? Are the horror stories really true? Is it really that difficult? What tips do you have?

 

Thanks in advance!

Not really. I just got my police certificate from a small town. Not technically a 'rural' area since mine is a 'urban' based hukou register, but I do come from a small small town. You can ask your fiancee contact the local notary office first, check online get the number to call. If there is no local notary office in her born place, contact the upper level. Check first what documents they do really need. This is what I did. No bribe at all.

[RandyW 149]

I've said before - Bribes are nature's way of announcing that you're a filthy rich foreigner, and what you think of their crumby legal system.

FOLLOW YOUR SPOUSE'S LEAD. The Chinese citizen generally knows how to navigate their local bureaucracy. The reason we don't get much feedback on this is that is is generally uneventful

[Susaan 2]

9 hours ago, Hemutian said:

Hi Susaan,

 

Thanks for your response. It's encouraging to hear that this step was not too difficult for you.

Although even a week is a long time, because my fiancee needs to travel back to her home town in the countryside and it's really hard to get that much time off work, but at least it sounds like the certificate is doable, and that's the most important thing.

 

Do you mind if I ask you a couple follow-up questions?

• Is your hukou based in a small town, or a big city?
• Did you just go straight to the notary office, rather than the PSB?
• Did you bring any documentation to prove that you need this certificate, such as the P4 letter from the US Consulate?
• What country is your fiancee/petitioner from? I'm just worried that because I'm American and US/Chinese relations have been getting worse recently, that the PSB might refuse to grant her the certificate for political reasons.

Matt

Of course!

• My hukou is based in the country side. Specifically in the village, if you will.

• Yes, also correct. I went straight to the notary office rather than PSB.

• No, I actually didn't get my P4 letter yet. I didn't have to bring any proof. I just went straight into the notary office; asked them what form I need to sign for the police certificate; but I didn't even need a form. The guy just asked me if I ever committed a crime or have I ever been arrested, I said no. I just literally entered my ID info to them and that was it. Waited a week and got a call saying that the document is ready to be picked up. 

• my petitioner is also an US citizen. I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. 

[Hemutian 68]

7 hours ago, RandyW said:

I've said before - Bribes are nature's way of announcing that you're a filthy rich foreigner, and what you think of their crumby legal system.

FOLLOW YOUR SPOUSE'S LEAD. The Chinese citizen generally knows how to navigate their local bureaucracy. The reason we don't get much feedback on this is that is is generally uneventful

We've no intention of offering bribes. 

My spouse doesn't really have any idea how to navigate the local bureaucracy. She hasn't lived in her hometown for decades, and doesn't have guanxi there. She's mostly been relying on Wechat groups for advice, and it's those Wechat groups that gave her all the scary information and horror stories about people not being able to get this certificate, failing their visa interviews, etc. That's why I turned to this forum instead.

So far, most of the responses here are reassuring, so I'm going to assume our attempt will be uneventful as well, and that we'll be fine.

Will post back when we have results.

4 hours ago, Susaan said:

Of course!

• My hukou is based in the country side. Specifically in the village, if you will.

• Yes, also correct. I went straight to the notary office rather than PSB.

• No, I actually didn't get my P4 letter yet. I didn't have to bring any proof. I just went straight into the notary office; asked them what form I need to sign for the police certificate; but I didn't even need a form. The guy just asked me if I ever committed a crime or have I ever been arrested, I said no. I just literally entered my ID info to them and that was it. Waited a week and got a call saying that the document is ready to be picked up. 

• my petitioner is also an US citizen. I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. 

Thank you!

[visafrompa 9]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:19 AM, Hemutian said:

bribe Chinese government officials in order to finally get this document.

 

On 7/1/2019 at 10:28 AM, Hemutian said:

We've no intention of offering bribes. 

 

That's your western upbringing, not real life in China.  

 

I would never go with my fiance to a PSB other than to get a residence permit.   When I do go, I've never had an issue.

 

I would say that a younger PSB officer would be easier to work with as they grew up much different than their parents.  So if you have a young (under 30) officer, your fiance will act much differently than if there was a 50 year old officer that's worked his entire life.  You can easily tell the difference in attitudes.  From asking questions in English or just giving me long side eye stares while they chain smoke.  One may need some 'social lubricant' the other will not.

 

As far as the IO is concerned, China gives out Criminal letters.  Its a required document so get it.

[Hemutian 68]

4 hours ago, visafrompa said:

 

 

That's your western upbringing, not real life in China.  

 

I would never go with my fiance to a PSB other than to get a residence permit.   When I do go, I've never had an issue.

 

I would say that a younger PSB officer would be easier to work with as they grew up much different than their parents.  So if you have a young (under 30) officer, your fiance will act much differently than if there was a 50 year old officer that's worked his entire life.  You can easily tell the difference in attitudes.  From asking questions in English or just giving me long side eye stares while they chain smoke.  One may need some 'social lubricant' the other will not.

 

As far as the IO is concerned, China gives out Criminal letters.  Its a required document so get it.

Just to be clear,

 

You're saying that she should be prepared to offer a bribe, especially if the PSB officer is of the older, more traditional generation, but that I shouldn't construe it as a "bribe" because that's my Western lens, and I need to understand that in Chinese context (especially in the context of the small town where she's from), what Westerners call a "bribe" may be better construed as a "social lubricant" and just "the way things are done", i.e. "when in Rome"...?

 

Okay...I get where you're coming from

And I'm all for being flexible when a guest in a foreign culture

It's just...I thought that Xi Jinping has been leading this big anti-corruption campaign, and that it might actually be kind of dangerous to offer a "social lubricant" in this day and age. Maybe I was naive?