URGENT HELP :(

[carmel34 3,655]

54 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

They will definitely need to get "married again."  A spousal visa will absolutely not be issued if the marriage date is before the date of the previous marriage's final divorce date.

 

You really think so?????  How?  They will need to file another petition completely, as he was not eligible to file the first one.  Plus, it is Islamabad.

 

There is no way this will take 90 days.  My best guess would be that they are looking at a year or two at least.

Yes you are right, I forgot about having to completely re-file another I-130.  They will have to start over once the TX divorce is final and they get re-married.  So sad but that that's what happens when people try to take shortcuts to save time and money. It usually comes back to bite you later.

Edited June 18, 2019 by carmel34

[Amadia 711]

In Trinidad, some of the Islamic laws are practiced by the Muslims in the country. One thing that I know is still performed for dissolution of Islamic marriages in major Muslim communities, is talaq. This is the husband's way of saying the marriage is over. Talaq is not recognized as divorce in the USA so your "husband" will have to get an official divorce decree like the officer asked for in order for your passport to get that approved visa sticker.

Yes, keeping the passport is good news.....getting the divorce decree is even better news! Obviously, proof that he is divorced will mean that his marriage to you is legal.  

[Pinkrlion 2,724]

4 hours ago, geowrian said:

Sounds like the foreign-obtained divorce did not meet the requirements to be recognized by the US. Presumably there was a lack of due process given the sparse details available so far in this thread.

If so, the solution is to obtain a divorce that the US will recognize, remarry, then refile.

If not, then either he should be able to get the document from TX or you will likely need an attorney to fight the refusal on the grounds that the divorce met the requirements and proper documentation was provided.

 

USCIS does not recognize foreign divorce decrees when both parties live in the US. 

[Nitas_man 3,100]

4 hours ago, Amadia said:

In Trinidad, some of the Islamic laws are practiced by the Muslims in the country. One thing that I know is still performed for dissolution of Islamic marriages in major Muslim communities, is talaq. This is the husband's way of saying the marriage is over. Talaq is not recognized as divorce in the USA so your "husband" will have to get an official divorce decree like the officer asked for in order for your passport to get that approved visa sticker.

Yes, keeping the passport is good news.....getting the divorce decree is even better news! Obviously, proof that he is divorced will mean that his marriage to you is legal.  

 

There is no divorce decree to get, polygamy/bigamy is a listed turpitude bar, and this marriage, without a legal divorce decree, was never valid to begin with.

 

Pursuing this current case will not end well for these two.

 

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/will-you-be-denied-us-citizenship-based-polygamy-bigamy-multiple-marriages.html

 

[mniceguy16 187]

5 hours ago, carmel34 said:

I got divorced in Texas four years ago, they require a 60 day waiting period after filing the divorce petition before a judge can issue a final decree.  That is most likely what turned off the petitioner in this case from doing it in Texas, it takes a little longer than it did in Pakistan--he made a mistake for the sake of speed not realizing that US immigration would not recognize the divorce in Pakistan.  So OP, you are looking for positive suggestions--you can do this!  Your husband needs to find a good family law attorney in Texas who can get his divorce done quickly in Texas--it will take at least 60 days, most likely 90 with filing of petitions and final judgment to occur.  90 days is not that long if you really want to overcome this and be together as a married couple.  It is too bad that this happened, but make the best of it.  Your husband needs to take the signed divorce settlement document and the Pakistani divorce documents, both translated into English, to a Texas family law attorney and file for a divorce in Texas immediately.  60 days after filing the initial divorce petition, the case can go to court and a judge can issue the final decree.  Then you'll most likely need to get married again, and submit both the TX divorce decree and the new marriage certificate to the Islamabad Consulate to satisfy their request.  Do all of that, and you'll get your US visa.  Maybe 90 days if your husband acts immediately to fix this problem that he caused in the first place.  Good luck and soon you'll be together!  Lots of positive thoughts going your way!

Get married again??? Despite the fact that i130 petition shows an earlier wedding date? Any marriage in 2019 with a petition for i130 and a previous date on it will be considered void by co. Op can't get married now with a petition on the co's desk because the co is waiting for proof to show that her husband was divorced in TX legally before filing for Op. So adding to what you just said, op can simply get a good lawyer who can get the necessary documents including the settlement and use it to convince the judge who in turn may issue a final divorce decree. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by mniceguy16

[geowrian 22,338]

2 hours ago, Pinkrlion said:

USCIS does not recognize foreign divorce decrees when both parties live in the US. 

Generally, yes. Absolutely yes under current state laws if the second marriage occurred within the US as well. This is by virtue of state laws, but that is not a rule by definition.

See Matter of Weaver (BIA 1979) and Matter of Ma (BIA 1974). Specifically,  "Where one of the parties to a marriage has a prior divorce, we look to the law of the state where the subsequent marriage was celebrated to determine whether or not that state would recognize the validity of the divorce".

Usually this means one must have domicile within that state/country/whatever. Jurisdiction is important. However, if a state (or foreign country) permits divorce without domicile, it can be recognized so long as it meets all the other requirements.

I don't believe any US state still permits divorce without domicile. There are a couple that let you file without a minimum period of living there, but one must still show domicile.

 

From the USCIS policy manual (section is about naturalization, but the underlying source applies to petitions based on marriage) - bolding is my emphasis: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-g-chapter-2

"The validity of a divorce abroad depends on the interpretation of the divorce laws of the foreign country that granted the divorce and the reciprocity laws in the state of the United States where the applicant remarried. If the divorce is not final under the foreign law, remarriage to a U.S. citizen is not valid for immigration purposes.

An officer should ensure that the court issuing the divorce had jurisdiction to do so. Foreign divorce laws may allow for a final decree even when the applicants are not residing in the country. Some states, however, do not recognize these foreign divorces and do not provide reciprocity. The applicant and his or her former spouse’s place of domicile at the time of the divorce is important in determining whether the court had jurisdiction."

 

The issue is if the location of the subsequent marriage recognizes the divorce without domicile of either party. For example, in Matter of Weaver, a divorce was obtained in the DR without either party living there. However, they remarried outside the US as well, and that country recognized the DR divorce despite no domicile. INS was then required to recognize that divorce as well.

 

We're 5 pages in and without clear details - so maybe I missed it - but where did the second marriage occur? The laws of that location would determine whether there was a jurisdictional issue with the marriage or not.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

Generally, yes. Absolutely yes under current state laws if the second marriage occurred within the US as well. This is by virtue of state laws, but that is not a rule by definition.

See Matter of Weaver (BIA 1979) and Matter of Ma (BIA 1974). Specifically,  "Where one of the parties to a marriage has a prior divorce, we look to the law of the state where the subsequent marriage was celebrated to determine whether or not that state would recognize the validity of the divorce".

Usually this means one must have domicile within that state/country/whatever. Jurisdiction is important. However, if a state (or foreign country) permits divorce without domicile, it can be recognized so long as it meets all the other requirements.

I don't believe any US state still permits divorce without domicile. There are a couple that let you file without a minimum period of living there, but one must still show domicile.

 

From the USCIS policy manual (section is about naturalization, but the underlying source applies to petitions based on marriage) - bolding is my emphasis: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-g-chapter-2

"The validity of a divorce abroad depends on the interpretation of the divorce laws of the foreign country that granted the divorce and the reciprocity laws in the state of the United States where the applicant remarried. If the divorce is not final under the foreign law, remarriage to a U.S. citizen is not valid for immigration purposes.

An officer should ensure that the court issuing the divorce had jurisdiction to do so. Foreign divorce laws may allow for a final decree even when the applicants are not residing in the country. Some states, however, do not recognize these foreign divorces and do not provide reciprocity. The applicant and his or her former spouse’s place of domicile at the time of the divorce is important in determining whether the court had jurisdiction."

 

The issue is if the location of the subsequent marriage recognizes the divorce without domicile of either party. For example, in Matter of Weaver, a divorce was obtained in the DR without either party living there. However, they remarried outside the US as well, and that country recognized the DR divorce despite no domicile. INS was then required to recognize that divorce as well.

 

We're 5 pages in and without clear details - so maybe I missed it - but where did the second marriage occur? The laws of that location would determine whether there was a jurisdictional issue with the marriage or not.

Second marriage:  Pakistan

Divorce: Pakistan

US Jurisdiction of divorce:  Based on settlement docs (previous residence, ex spouse residence) - Texas

(Implying) that the former spouse seems to currently live or did live in Texas

OP says her husband left Texas, arranged for divorce via power of attorney in Pakistan, married in Pakistan, returned to Texas, filed for immigration benefits. 

Somewhere during that time he obtained property settlement from his ex spouse in Texas.  Date of settlement (before marriage, before pakistani divorce?) not given

I’m no lawyer but I do know what it takes to get a divorce in Texas and although they could probably live happily in marital bliss over in sunny Pakistan this guy is not going to be considered divorced yet in Texas nor is Texas (where he seems to be filing from) going to recognize his “absentee” divorce over in Pakistan when the other party (ex-wife) seemed to have been in Texas.  

No judge is going to back-date the decree for him either.

Can a USC “absentee” divorce another USC (or even PR) over in another country, marry there, and expect to bring the new spouse over when the ex spouse could not have possibly been a party to that overseas divorce?  OP says the divorce in Pakistan was “awarded by default” - this was not a joint motion it was a shortcut.  I dont think it is going to end well under any interpretation of previous case law.

 

[Nitas_man 3,100]

10 hours ago, Ranii said:

That is not fair of you to blame him of texting or whatever he did to get divorce decree. He initiated it. Did all the paperwork himself while in Pakistan. Stop being judgmental and give valuable advice instead. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/04/30/texas-court-of-appeals-recognizes-pakistani-islamic-divorce/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f7eb5c7aade3

 

The three texts messages weren’t a joke.

This is one fairly recent case from Texas.  To be honored, they had to prove that pakistani law was followed exactly.  Now is your ?husband? prepared to demonstrate this?  Pakistan also has a 90-day waiting period.  Is the ex-spouse pakistani or a USC?  Because this one won appeal because the ex spouse was pakistani and BOTH of them were in Pakistan when the divorce took place.  

Edited June 18, 2019 by Nitas_man

[arken 4,197]

1 hour ago, Nitas_man said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/04/30/texas-court-of-appeals-recognizes-pakistani-islamic-divorce/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f7eb5c7aade3

 

The three texts messages weren’t a joke.

This is one fairly recent case from Texas.  To be honored, they had to prove that pakistani law was followed exactly.  Now is your ?husband? prepared to demonstrate this?  Pakistan also has a 90-day waiting period.  Is the ex-spouse pakistani or a USC?  Because this one won appeal because the ex spouse was pakistani and BOTH of them were in Pakistan when the divorce took place.  

While in OP’s case, none of the divorcees were in Pakistan. 

[geowrian 22,338]

3 hours ago, Nitas_man said:

Second marriage:  Pakistan

Divorce: Pakistan

US Jurisdiction of divorce:  Based on settlement docs (previous residence, ex spouse residence) - Texas

(Implying) that the former spouse seems to currently live or did live in Texas 

OP says her husband left Texas, arranged for divorce via power of attorney in Pakistan, married in Pakistan, returned to Texas, filed for immigration benefits. 

Gotcha.

Also, somehow I lost a short (but important) paragraph in my comment above: "Those few cases are unanimous in holding that the law of the jurisdiction in which the parties were domiciled at the time of the divorce should be applied in determining the validity of the divorce...We believe that the rationale expressed in the commentaries is sound, and should be followed". So yes, the location of actual domicile is an important factor in determining jurisdiction.

In this case, Texas appears to be the jurisdiction with greatest interest in the divorce, and the circumstances suggest that Pakistan had very little interest in the case.

[nastra30 2,359]

17 hours ago, Ranii said:

IF THEY REQUIRED IT FROM TEXAS THEN WHY DIDN'T THEY ASK FOR IT AT NVC STAGE. 

The final visa decision lies with the USEM not NVC. The USEM can ask for any extra document they want regardless of what you provided at NVC.

[Amadia 711]

12 hours ago, Nitas_man said:

 

There is no divorce decree to get, polygamy/bigamy is a listed turpitude bar, and this marriage, without a legal divorce decree, was never valid to begin with.

 

Pursuing this current case will not end well for these two.

 

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/will-you-be-denied-us-citizenship-based-polygamy-bigamy-multiple-marriages.html

 

Agreed, but we are all jumping to conclusions when none of us have received the full story from the OP. She does not know IF her husband has a valid divorce decree which could very well have a date prior to their marriage.....so for all we know, the marriage she has with him now is legit.

Many people start their visa journey and make mistakes along the way. The most we can do is guide them right not throw them to the wolves.....we were there once too and needed help from others who have gone thru it before us.

[SalishSea 18,127]

Just now, Amadia said:

Agreed, but we are all jumping to conclusions when none of us have received the full story from the OP. She does not know IF her husband has a valid divorce decree which could very well have a date prior to their marriage.....so for all we know, the marriage she has with him now is legit.

Many people start their visa journey and make mistakes along the way. The most we can do is guide them right not throw them to the wolves.....we were there once too and needed help from others who have gone thru it before us.

Oh?  I thought she said initially that the RFE was for a divorce decree from Texas, and that he did not have one?

[Amadia 711]

17 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

Oh?  I thought she said initially that the RFE was for a divorce decree from Texas, and that he did not have one?

If you go thru and read all of the comments by OP, she seems all over the place with her story. 🤦‍♀️

[MoroccanEscape 31]

Had your husband resided in Texas for at least 6 months before he filed for divorce ? I am terribly confused about this whole scenario. If he was living in Texas he needed to get divorced in Texas. For instance, I was married in Morocco. The US government recognizes my marriage in a foreign country BUT now that we live here, if we divorced we would have to file in Texas, not Morocco.