Thousands Protest Immigration Bills

[Mand 1]

People from Poland move to better off EU countries, work there and send the money home.

The EU allows that, though. It's legal. World of difference.

I never said it wasn't legal

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

People from Poland move to better off EU countries, work there and send the money home.

The EU allows that, though. It's legal. World of difference.

Exactly.

There were many Poles and other Eastern Europeans that came to work illegally in Western Europe before. And they got kicked and their employers punished. No questions asked.

[kerewin21 2]

You have to remember that most societies are that way. Poland, China and even some of the most desperate of places have some extremely rich folks around. Even Ethiopia has it's own billionaire. How much does his wealth weigh on the average of that country? Do the math, you'd be impressed. The gap between the very rich and very poor is existent literally everywhere. That's not a Mexican phenomenon. Hell, the per capita GNI of the US is around $40K. Yet, there are better than 10% of the population living below poverty level - that's less than 20K for a household of four (or less than 5K per head).

My point exactly. You can't just look at the GNI to decide whether people in the country are poor. There are poor people everywhere, it just happens that Mexicans have the somewhat unsavory option of attempting to come to the US illegally. It's not about how poor the country is, it's about how poor the individuals are.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You have to remember that most societies are that way. Poland, China and even some of the most desperate of places have some extremely rich folks around. Even Ethiopia has it's own billionaire. How much does his wealth weigh on the average of that country? Do the math, you'd be impressed. The gap between the very rich and very poor is existent literally everywhere. That's not a Mexican phenomenon. Hell, the per capita GNI of the US is around $40K. Yet, there are better than 10% of the population living below poverty level - that's less than 20K for a household of four (or less than 5K per head).

My point exactly. You can't just look at the GNI to decide whether people in the country are poor. There are poor people everywhere, it just happens that Mexicans have the somewhat unsavory option of attempting to come to the US illegally. It's not about how poor the country is, it's about how poor the individuals are.

Well, you're missing my point, then. Someone tried to pull the "oh, those poor starving folks" thingy. That's a load of #######. The really poor ain't making it here. Not from Mexico and not from anywhere else. Much like the really poor didn't make it out of New Orleans.

[rebeccajo 14]

.......The really poor ain't making it here. Not from Mexico and not from anywhere else......

Exactly. Supply and demand. Let them come here legally with a fairly simple, straightforward, affordable process. Equalize the minimum wage. Close, not just fine, business that breaks the law. The strong will survive. Economics will work.

Edited March 27, 2006 by rebeccajo

[mercuryroad 0]

Would you steal bread if your family was starving?

Clichées don't help an honest debate, merc. Those really desperate and poor with actually starving families have no way of even making it here. Nor do they have the luxury of pondering such thoughts.

Put it in perspective.....these people are essentially stealing. I worked on a farm for a few summers and spent a lot of time with some illegal Mexican workers. Their life wasn't exactly wine and roses and they sent their money back home to support their families....all the while living on as little as possible. They were in that sense stealing to feed their family.

The cliche is not irrelevant in this case....it is a form of the same question.

Stealing? Yes. Starving? No. Wine and Roses? Who said that their illegal existences here are wine and roses?

Yes, they are poorer than the average guy in this here country. But the poorest guy over there is still relatively wealthy compared to the really poor in this world.

Mexico's 2005 per capita GNI was $6,770.00. That compares to a per capita GNI of just over $6,000.00 for Poland (that's a EU member nation that is poorer than Mexico) or to a per capita GNI of $1,290.00 for China and per capita GNI's of around $100.00 elsewhere in the really poor parts of the world. It all needs to be put in some perspective indeed. And once you do, you'll realize that Mexico ain't nowhere near the bottom.

I don't object to tightening things up......the thing that honestly bothers me is the tone of some of the posters on this thread......as if they illegal immigrants were not people and they get all of these great benefits. They've become this amorphous object that is easily demonized.

All I'm saying is that we have to look at this from the human side also and remember these are people we're talking about.........when we lose touch with that we start to sound like the angry mob. The fact is these are individuals that made choices......and for many, those choices are very dangerous. Thankfully, those are choices that 99% of Americans can't even understand. Let's not forget how lucky we are to live the way we do here......

After we've deported all of the illegals.....then who is next to blame? The legal immigrants? Maybe we should crack down on them too! Talk about taking jobs from Americans.....these are jobs we actually want! We'll have to start with those K1 visas because people only marry Americans to get a green card. Now how ridiculous does that sound.....

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Flag waving Americans? NOT!

WELCOME TO RECONQUISTA

By Michelle Malkin · March 27, 2006 09:42 AM

As Mickey Kaus points out, the reporters at the Los Angeles Times (and all other major media, for that matter) have downplayed the radical ethnic separatism that characterized the pro-illegal immigration rallies over the weekend. While the Times misleadingly asserted that the Los Angeles rally "featured more American flags than those from any other country," its reporters conveniently ignored marchers with extremist signs and banners advocating America-undermining concepts of reconquista and Aztlan:

These sentiments, as I've noted before, are not limited to ethnic fringe groups--but also mainstream Democrat politicians and campus chapters of the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan, or MEChA.

Most of the members of the open-borders media won't dare breathe a word about this militant phenomenon, lest they be accused of...racism. Oh, the irony.

Welcome to reconquista.

Where are all the assimilationists now?

***

Tammy Bruce noted on FOX News this morning that American flags were burned at the LA rally and marchers also held signs of the North American continent with America x'ed out.

Who's organizing the illegal alien rallies? Lonewacko investigates the role of a former Mexican consul in Georgia.

Flashback: Heather Mac Donald's November 2005 exposé of the expanding political role of Mexico's consular offices in the U.S. is must-read and must-re-read.

Mark Krikorian sees something I've been noting myself lately--an analogy between the reconquista movement in the U.S. and Europe's dhimmification.

Tom Tancredo is not afraid of the demonizers.

[LenJayUS 0]

seems to be some really heated exchanges here... so I'll add my opinion to the mix.

As someone said, there's a difference between an illegal alien, and a refugee... cubans for example that make it to land are here legally... mexicans that cross the border are not.

America needs to get rid of as many illegal aliens as they possibly can. They need to make it harder to physically get into the country to slow the tide (I'm not naive, they'll never be able to completely stop it). They need to start holding business's accountable for hiring them. Instead of a flat fine, that hurts the small companies more then the big companies, they can come up with some kind of floating scale. Company A has a very low profit line... Company B is a fortune 500 company... Company B gets hit for more money... Is it fair.. probably not... so doubt it would fly, but oh well :-)

Yes, I know this country was built my immigrants. But they were legally allowed to enter. Different time, different country. We're dealing with now, not then. I'm not against legal immigration at all, I just can't stand the illegals.

You can have a bleeding heart all day long for illegals, and the earth, and people and what not. Turning a blind eye isn't going to fix things either. Cut out alot of the illegals getting free health care, we might see health care costs going down for the people here legally. Cut out the illegals from working, we'd probably see unemployment rates dropping. More people have jobs, more money gets spent. More taxes are made.

I do have a suggestion. There's alot of people that get some kind of public assistance... welfare mostly. Why not help out the small people, like farmers, that supposedly rely on the illegals for low cost labor. Instead of letting someone (I'm not saying everyone on public assistance is like this, but I know quite a few people that do it) sit at home all day collecting a monthly check, have them start doing some of these jobs farmers, or the local governments, and other small companies. Get a few of them together and provide them with child care training so they can watch any kids (one less excuse... I don't have a baby sitter!) and the rest go out and help out a few hours a day/week. In exchange for their work, they continue to get their assistance. They'll either continue to do that, or decide to go on out and get a real job.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Flag waving Americans? NOT!

WELCOME TO RECONQUISTA

By Michelle Malkin · March 27, 2006 09:42 AM

As Mickey Kaus points out, the reporters at the Los Angeles Times (and all other major media, for that matter) have downplayed the radical ethnic separatism that characterized the pro-illegal immigration rallies over the weekend. While the Times misleadingly asserted that the Los Angeles rally "featured more American flags than those from any other country," its reporters conveniently ignored marchers with extremist signs and banners advocating America-undermining concepts of reconquista and Aztlan:

These sentiments, as I've noted before, are not limited to ethnic fringe groups--but also mainstream Democrat politicians and campus chapters of the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan, or MEChA.

Most of the members of the open-borders media won't dare breathe a word about this militant phenomenon, lest they be accused of...racism. Oh, the irony.

Welcome to reconquista.

Where are all the assimilationists now?

***

Tammy Bruce noted on FOX News this morning that American flags were burned at the LA rally and marchers also held signs of the North American continent with America x'ed out.

Who's organizing the illegal alien rallies? Lonewacko investigates the role of a former Mexican consul in Georgia.

Flashback: Heather Mac Donald's November 2005 exposé of the expanding political role of Mexico's consular offices in the U.S. is must-read and must-re-read.

Mark Krikorian sees something I've been noting myself lately--an analogy between the reconquista movement in the U.S. and Europe's dhimmification.

Tom Tancredo is not afraid of the demonizers.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

All I'm saying is that we have to look at this from the human side also and remember these are people we're talking about...

Right. Those are people. Many of them are Americans that used to be able to support themselves and their families by working the kind of job they were able to perform. The janitor, for example. Now, they live in poverty thanks in no small part to a growing crowd of undocumented workers that have been and still are a major catalyst in the race to the bottom in ever more sectors of the economy. It's all wrong. Someone has to put a stop to it.

And don't pretend that the majority of those in favor of curbing illegal immigration and addressing the many problems it creates are anti-immigrant. They're not.

[Scott & Lai 12]

All I'm saying is that we have to look at this from the human side also and remember these are people we're talking about.........when we lose touch with that we start to sound like the angry mob. The fact is these are individuals that made choices......and for many, those choices are very dangerous. Thankfully, those are choices that 99% of Americans can't even understand. Let's not forget how lucky we are to live the way we do here......

Of course these are people....so are robbers, murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc...what's the point? Because they are "people", we should ignore the fact that they are flouting our laws? Every criminal has some excuse for their choices, some reason why the law shouldn't apply to them.

As for not forgetting how lucky we are, do the people holding the protest signs in fitnlivly's post look like they feel lucky to be here? Are they showing any gratitude to this nation?

[Fuzzness 2]

That's it, I'm going illegal. After all, I'm just a person looking for a better life. Because of that, it's ok for me the break the law. See you all on the other side.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

As for not forgetting how lucky we are, do the people holding the protest signs in fitnlivly's post look like they feel lucky to be here? Are they showing any gratitude to this nation?

Nope!

[peejay 327]

Of course these are people....so are robbers, murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc...what's the point? Because they are "people", we should ignore the fact that they are flouting our laws? Every criminal has some excuse for their choices, some reason why the law shouldn't apply to them.

And let's not forget drug dealers and pimps. They have to feed their families too. Do we let them skate just because they have a bunch of kids, a wife, and other relatives to support?

The fact is this whole situation has been a lie from the start from our politicians and their lack of guts to "effectively" deal with the problem. There is a lot of narrow self serving going on too.

Does anyone seriously believe that giving these people a 3, 4, 5, or 6 year "temporary" work visa is the answer. It is just a sell-out and a farce to sweep the problem under a rug for a time in the distant future when it will be someone elses' problem to deal with. Let's see if our temporary workers will go home when their visas expire. Do you really expect our lying politicians are going to enforce any new laws? They don't really enforce the ones we have now!

This debate has been languishing since the last (and hopefully only) major amnesty of illegal aliens in 1986. They passed a lot of "feel good" legislation that mollified the voters with vague promises of enforcement if we only amnesty the illegals in 1986. Sound familiar? It has been a joke ever since. A sick joke on the American people. It is time to hold our lazy politicians accountable for this mess and make them really fix it. And not with a band-aid to get them through the 2006 elections.

The Senate seems that their only concern it to tack as many increases onto legal immigration and to reward the illegals with a semi-amnesty or even worst a total amnesty. This is not being done because they love immigrants. It is just a big wish list of the US Chamber of Commerce and other Big Business interests that are not in the best interests of a vast majority of American workers.

They want an endless supply of cheap labor and can dole out the crumbs accordingly. If you think middle class wages have finished falling...it is a race to the bottom unless you are an corporate executive or a politician.

[almaty 19]

waiting for the flame war to begin...so far, this has been an insightful post...with good views on both sides...

in the end, politics will decide the outcome..whether the GOP will want to loose tsome of the hispanic voters and bush wants to disappoint his friend vicente fox