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Filed: Other Country: Germany
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Posted
So what you are saying is that the USA has an "obligation" to take in everyone that wants to come to the USA? Do we demand such concessions of say...the Swiss?

As for your racial distribution theory...quit making this a racial issue or civil rights issue. You may believe throwing out the race card gives you some sort of high moral ground, but it doesn't. Allowing one country to dominate immigration into the USA (mostly illegally) is not diversity. It is insanity. We can already see the rotten fruit that it bears.

Sugar subsidies hurting Mexico? What about what the Chinese are doing to our economy? Do you think the Chinese Communist Party is worried that our trade deficit with them is hugely in their favor? Are their economic decisions based on the wellbeing of US citizens?

Comparing US immigration in my grandparent's time to todays modern America is about like comparing a giraffe to a platypus. It was a different time, different circumstances, a different country.

You don't know my grandparents. You never know...maybe if pigs grew wings...they would fly? Maybe there are some people and governments that don't believe they are above the law. Unfortunately Mexico's public policy is to encourage their people to illegally immigrate for their own self serving agenda and they do. We have a sovereign right to stop it.

Keeping illegal immigrants out of the EU is the problem of the EU. Keeping illegal immigrants out of the USA is America's problem to solve. Just because my ethnic group illegally immigrates anywhere...doesn't mean that I condone it. None of my Belarusian relatives live illegally in the EU.

You brought up Belarus as a nation that is different from Mexico because they don't send illegals to the US. My point was that the contrast doesn't work which has nothing to do with your ethnic group but with the fact that Belarusians are no different from Mexicans in this respect.

To convince me that there is no racism behind the immigration quotas which are clearly targeted at keeping the country white will be difficult. What are the reasons for giving higher quotas to European countries if not maintaining current racial distributions? It's most likely not education since that falls into a different category. I'm wasn't making this a race issue or a civil rights issue, because not every time someone says "race" it is civil rights that are being discussed. Btw, this is not just about Mexico because not all illegal immigrants come from Mexico. Mexico just happens to be a convenient scapegoat, and thus follows into the footsteps of nations from which immigrants came in earlier times among them Germany, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Russia. Do you honestly think the Mexican government is responsible for illlegal immigration???

As to the situation today being different: how? What exactly is different today in the US? And why would the US your grandparents immigrated to have been more welcoming of immigrants than it is today. The sentiment of the so-called "native Americans" are definitely the same; they still don't like immigrants and they still see them as a detriment to national values. The immigrants are also the same - even if they come from different countries; they still assimilate within 2-3 generations, maintain their native cultures and languages in their homes, and work in underpaid jobs. That has been the way it always was whether in 1700, 1800, 1900, or today.

As to economic policies and immigration, it is easy to deny responsibility for third-world poverty in a global economy but that doesn't mean that it is not a major cause of migration. The developed world lives on the back of the less developed world and farm subsidies as well as trade barriers - which happen to work mostly in the favor of the developed nations - are a primary cause for the way things are. The US trade deficit has nothing to do with it because it is the result of American companies producing in other countries and American consumers supporting this form of outsourcing by preferring cheap goods over American-made products. China has little to do with it unless you want to blame the Chinese for letting American companies move their production to China.

Because employers will have to pay minimum wage to legal worker and given that illegals normally work for much less than someone will have to foot the bill.

In each sector of the economy where some criminally greedy folks exploit illegals for their own profits, there are honest businesses surviving (and still turning profits). The only ones losing, would be the criminals. I ain't crying a single tear for their losses. :no:

Me neither. But that doesn't make it any more realistic...

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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Ireland
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Posted

An interesting story I heard this weekend from home:

An Irish couple who live nearby my Grandparents, but had previously being living in Boston for 5+ years, came back to Ireland, bought 2 top of the line cars, built a massive big house with all the trimmings and everyone says "Didn't they do grand in America to save all that money". Well, as it now turns out, they were illegal for all that time and paid no taxes...so of course they could afford to "do well in America". That makes my blood boil

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Filed: Other Country: Germany
Timeline
Posted
Has anyone stopped to ask (1) why Americans allegedly don't want these jobs and (2) what good it really does the illegals coming to take these jobs? If Americans really "don't want" these jobs (and I find it unbelievable, I'm sorry, that not one single American would work in these construction, health, or service jobs), is it because the employers are slave drivers who aren't paying a prevailing wage? If that's so, is it really okay to simply hire illegals who will work under inhumane conditions just because no one is really stopping the greedy employers? And is it really helpful to these workers to be paid low wages with no benefits or legal protections? Is it okay to essentially exploit an entire population with no voice and no rights?

That's really the point. It was the combination of the presence of illegals and criminal greed that led to the "creation" of the kind of jobs that Americans don't want. Take the janitors, for example. There used to be American janitors all over the place. They earned a wage on which they could support themselves and maybe even their families. They used to receive benefits, too. Then came illegals who were desperate enough to work for much less and w/o benefits. And there were employers who saw an opportunity to make a quick extra buck. Never mind the law. The result were janitorial jobs that paid sh!t and had no benefits. And now both the criminal employer as well as the criminal illegal laborer stand there and dare lecture the rest of us about the jobs that no American wants. Gotta slap them all! :angry:

I don't think that there are jobs Americans don't want, and I also don't think that is a good argument for the guest worker program. The problem are the extremely low wages paid in many jobs in the US which are the consequence of massive union busting under the auspices of federal, state, and local governments. Illegals just come in sonewhere in the equation but it is not primarily their fault that many Americans think the government should not get involved when it comes to health care, fair labor standards, or wages. Criminalizing illegals is also not going to change this root problem nor will a guest worker program change anything in this respect.

The question is therefore what can we or anyone do to change it? Join the chorus of those pinning every social ill on the illegal and disenfrachised underclass? Or try to work at addressing the problem facing American workers in other ways?

Permanent Green Card Holder since 2006, considering citizenship application in the future.

Filed: Timeline
Posted
Because employers will have to pay minimum wage to legal worker and given that illegals normally work for much less than someone will have to foot the bill.
In each sector of the economy where some criminally greedy folks exploit illegals for their own profits, there are honest businesses surviving (and still turning profits). The only ones losing, would be the criminals. I ain't crying a single tear for their losses. :no:
Me neither. But that doesn't make it any more realistic...

Doesn't make what more realistic? That this economy would work w/o the illegals? I dare say it would work better. Not for all, but for the many of us who legitimately call this place home and play by the rules. :yes:

Posted

Well put, Fisch.

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Filed: Other Country: Germany
Timeline
Posted
Because employers will have to pay minimum wage to legal worker and given that illegals normally work for much less than someone will have to foot the bill.
In each sector of the economy where some criminally greedy folks exploit illegals for their own profits, there are honest businesses surviving (and still turning profits). The only ones losing, would be the criminals. I ain't crying a single tear for their losses. :no:
Me neither. But that doesn't make it any more realistic...

Doesn't make what more realistic? That this economy would work w/o the illegals? I dare say it would work better. Not for all, but for the many of us who legitimately call this place home and play by the rules. :yes:

Replacing a workforce of 15-20 million is not realistic within a short time frame especially when considering the shortcomings of USCIS and the intricate lobbying connections that will prevent any actions against employers.

I do believe the economy could work fine without illegals and it would certainly be beneficial for everyone involved but I don't see it happen anytime soon.

Permanent Green Card Holder since 2006, considering citizenship application in the future.

Filed: Timeline
Posted
Because employers will have to pay minimum wage to legal worker and given that illegals normally work for much less than someone will have to foot the bill.
In each sector of the economy where some criminally greedy folks exploit illegals for their own profits, there are honest businesses surviving (and still turning profits). The only ones losing, would be the criminals. I ain't crying a single tear for their losses. :no:
Me neither. But that doesn't make it any more realistic...
Doesn't make what more realistic? That this economy would work w/o the illegals? I dare say it would work better. Not for all, but for the many of us who legitimately call this place home and play by the rules. :yes:
Replacing a workforce of 15-20 million is not realistic within a short time frame especially when considering the shortcomings of USCIS and the intricate lobbying connections that will prevent any actions against employers.

I do believe the economy could work fine without illegals and it would certainly be beneficial for everyone involved but I don't see it happen anytime soon.

Nobody seriously talks about deporting 15-20 million illegals overnight. This is just put out there to panic people into supporting another amnesty. Another amnesty will accomplish what previous amnesties have accomplished: trigger more illegals to come to the US.

If employers face stiff penalties (jailtime and all) for employing illegals, you better believe that they'll find ways to keep their businesses running legally. And they'll do so quickly.

Filed: Timeline
Posted
Another amnesty will accomplish what previous amnesties have accomplished: trigger more illegals to come to the US.

:thumbs:

If employers face stiff penalties (jailtime and all) for employing illegals, you better believe that they'll find ways to keep their businesses running legally. And they'll do so quickly.

This problem can't be solved merely on the demand side. Supply will have to be curtailed simultaneously, and that means better border controls.

Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

Filed: Country: United Kingdom
Timeline
Posted
Nobody seriously talks about deporting 15-20 million illegals overnight. This is just put out there to panic people into supporting another amnesty. Another amnesty will accomplish what previous amnesties have accomplished: trigger more illegals to come to the US.

I do support another amnesty for people already in the US, but only if it's followed by

the introduction of truly draconian immigration laws for those who cross the border

after the cutoff date. Basically, give them 30 days to come out of the shadows and

identify themselves; if they don't -- find and deport EVERY single one of them. No

exceptions, humanitarian reasons or family reunions.

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Posted

it is a mess with politics being played on both sides..i see no end in sight and the borders will remain a turnstile...bush is meeting with fox, mexico president, i am certain fox will reinforce bush wvp..

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Filed: Timeline
Posted
I'm a little surprised at the lack of compassion here. I'm in favor of doing things by the book, but how many of us have been in such dire circumstances that we could even understand what these people go through?

The people that come here illegally are probably not affluent in their country. Perhaps we should do more work to make these countries more economically viable so people won't have to leave. Poverty is the issue.

give me a dayum break....

my husband is from pakistan< the back world I might add >. these illegals are mostly from mexico- a wealthy nation I will add!!!I just wrote a paper about this stuff. let me tell you the ONLY reason its a good idea to make the illegals legal would before help with the Social Security for when we all get old. there would be enought social security in the kitty for the next 75 years and counting.

It burns my behind to see me on Admin review hell for 9 months and doing things step by step playing by the rules. then joe blow illegal gets to come and stay like its no big deal. like there was no crime comitted at all if my husband were to do that same stuff he would be deported faster than lighting.

shon.gif
Filed: Other Timeline
Posted (edited)
This problem can't be solved merely on the demand side. Supply will have to be curtailed simultaneously, and that means better border controls.

Well, if immigrants are considered the 'supply' side of the equation, in a free-flowing economy, doesn't supply and demand usually sort itself out over the course of time? I thought that's what I learned in economics class...........

Edited by rebeccajo
Filed: Timeline
Posted
Another amnesty will accomplish what previous amnesties have accomplished: trigger more illegals to come to the US.

:thumbs:

If employers face stiff penalties (jailtime and all) for employing illegals, you better believe that they'll find ways to keep their businesses running legally. And they'll do so quickly.
This problem can't be solved merely on the demand side. Supply will have to be curtailed simultaneously, and that means better border controls.

Absolutely. It's got to be addressed from both ends. I just tend to think that attacking the demand side is much more effective. These perps are so much easier to find and putting one away easily takes care of dozens of illegal work relationships. Plus, those are the ones with a lot at stake...

 

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