Thousands Protest Immigration Bills

[peejay 327]

If you go after the employers and force them to lay off 12-20 million illegals (which is what

I presume you mean by "no longer allowing them to work here illegally"), the shock would

send the fragile US economy into a recession of catastrophic proportions. The government

would have to heavily subsidize employers for this strategy to ever work -- we're talking

$5,000-10,000 per illegal (to pull a number out of the air). Now 60-200 billion dollars is not

just something you put out on the table and hope that it works - and definitely not something

the government would choose to do voluntarily.

Baloney! If this country decides it really needs a so-called "temporary guest worker" program to do all these jobs that Americans won't do...then we have plenty of time to take applications in person at the US embassies in the participating countries and those "worker visas" can be issued in person at the US embassies after all necessary legal requirements have been met. Including making their US employers responsible for them so they do not become a burden on the taxpayer.

No amnesties and no more repeated rewards for lawbreakers, scofflaws, and absconders. The illegals already in the USA should be excluded from any guest worker program. Simple as that! They commited a crime(s) and they get what they get. They don't deserve to get rewarded for jerking off the system.

If President Ronald Reagan can fire all the air traffic controllers for walking out on strike and hiring replacements...then the Federal government knows what it takes to deal with illegal workers. Or are these draconian tactics only reserved to be used on US citizens?

In any event...we survived replacing the air traffic controllers and we can survive without the illegal aliens.

We've shipped a huge amount of manufacturing, agriculture, and many other jobs overseas and nobody in our government seems to care. Why predict gloom and doom if these illegal aliens get replaced. I think the bleeding hearts and sympathy is misplaced on these people.

What...do we think we will balance our budget by fining all these illegals $2000 so they can pay to stay? It takes a politician (Kennedy) to come up with that loser of a scheme. What is this...bribe your way into America after commiting a crime? It churns my stomach to the point of hurling! This country is better than that.

[I'm Gone 60]

What...do we think we will balance our budget by fining all these illegals $2000 so they can pay to stay? It takes a politician (Kennedy) to come up with that loser of a scheme.

Speaking of Kennedy, I heard him being interview tonight about the immigration bill and he was complaining about the bill having more money for immigration enforcement. He said throwing more money at the problem of illegal immigration isn't going to solve the problem. Now I wonder if he would be singing the same tune if it was a welfare bill throwing more money at the problem. What a windbag. I wonder what the people in Massachusetts are smoking to keep electing him.

[mawilson 2,133]

Baloney! If this country decides it really needs a so-called "temporary guest worker" program to do all these jobs that Americans won't do...then we have plenty of time to take applications in person at the US embassies in the participating countries and those "worker visas" can be issued in person at the US embassies after all necessary legal requirements have been met. Including making their US employers responsible for them so they do not become a burden on the taxpayer.

You don't seem to understand the extent of the problem. We're talking about MILLIONS of people,

people who work for American businesses, primarily agriculture and construction. No one knows

exactly how many but estimates run as high as 10-20 million. What do you think would happen to

the economy if these businesses suddenly lost millions of their employees? It's NOT something

you can solve with "visas" and "temporary guest workers".

Illegals will not go away by themselves no matter what you do. Any attempts to penalise the

employers would only drive the illegals further underground than they already are. There are

only two solutions to this problem -- to legalise them, or to deport them. You can't do either if

you don't know who they are and where they live. They will not voluntarily come forward and

identify themselves - you have to give them a good incentive to do so. Even legalisation might

not be enough of an incentive for many of them -- they don't trust the government and wouldn't

risk exposure and possible deportation.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

My grandparents immigrated from Belarus and I have many relatives there. The average income there is less than $2400 a year. They are not starving and to compare our economy to theirs is not accurate. While they don't have the material things we have in the USA, it is not a life-threatening event. The answer to Belarus' problems does not lie in importing their entire population to the USA.

No their answer lies in illegaly exporting their population into the EU which is no different. So don't use Belarus or any other Eastern European country as an example of what Mexico should do just because Belarusians don't come to the US that often.

What is Mexico supposed to do in your opinion?? Mexico is basically an economic peon of the US; just look at the way in which US sugar subsidies hurt Mexican sugar farmers or at the way in which NAFTA has impacted the Mexican economy.

There are hardly any visas available to Mexicans (or as a matter of fact to people from most third-world countries) partly because the quotas aim to keep the racial distribution in the US intact and to protect the US from the "poor and huddled masses" which helped make this country what it is. People trying to immigrate to the US today are no different than your ancestors only back in the day the borders were not closed by numerical restrictions. You never know if your grandparents wouldn't have entered illegally if things had been the same as today and the same is true for all previous immigrants from Europe).

[Fischkoepfin 1]

If you go after the employers and force them to lay off 12-20 million illegals (which is what

I presume you mean by "no longer allowing them to work here illegally"), the shock would

send the fragile US economy into a recession of catastrophic proportions. The government

would have to heavily subsidize employers for this strategy to ever work -- we're talking

$5,000-10,000 per illegal (to pull a number out of the air). Now 60-200 billion dollars is not

just something you put out on the table and hope that it works - and definitely not something

the government would choose to do voluntarily.

Baloney! If this country decides it really needs a so-called "temporary guest worker" program to do all these jobs that Americans won't do...then we have plenty of time to take applications in person at the US embassies in the participating countries and those "worker visas" can be issued in person at the US embassies after all necessary legal requirements have been met. Including making their US employers responsible for them so they do not become a burden on the taxpayer.

The cost would be there even if USCIS managed to have enough guest workers enter the day all illegals are out of work. Because employers will have to pay minimum wage to legal worker and given that illegals normally work for much less than someone will have to foot the bill.

Add to that the cost for adequately staffing USCIS and the consulates which are not even able to handle the current number of applications in a adequate time frame. And we all know that is not going to happen because most representatives supporting the bill are also proponents of small government and USCIS would need about 20-50 times more staff to get this done...

[rebeccajo 14]

Add to that the cost for adequately staffing USCIS and the consulates which are not even able to handle the current number of applications in a adequate time frame. And we all know that is not going to happen because most representatives supporting the bill are also proponents of small government and USCIS would need about 20-50 times more staff to get this done...

Well, that falls under the category of the cost of doing business. And while I realize when you are speaking of controlling immigration, you are talking government and not public business, the theory is the same. If you want to restrict immigration, you have to have the funds and staff to do so. Isolationism costs money too - not just the hidden losses that don't reveal themselves for decades are a cost.

I get tired of hearing about all the migrant workers needed to pick beans and mow grass. There are already visas and work projects in place to bring these people legally to America. So if American business needs these people, they need to get off their lazy asses, fill out the paperwork, open their pocketbooks and bring them here legally.

I also don't buy the theory that shutting off the borders will let in too many and destroy the economy. That never happened when the Chinese, Irish and other historical groups flooded this country. The strong survived and the others went home, just as born and bred citizens have to do everyday. I say let them come in if they want to work - legally - then let them compete for jobs just as any american citizen has to do at the prevailing wage. Minimum wage needs to be reinforced, not immigration.

Edited March 27, 2006 by rebeccajo

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So, lets play this out for a second on just one of the many fronts:

Legalize the illegals? Let them work the jobs legally that nobody here allegedly wants to do. Now who, if I may ask, is going to pick up the tab for their health care? Health care for the uninsured happens to be a public burden no legal alien gets to dump on the system. Their sponsor (you, me and employers that legally bring alien workers here) is on the hook for that. So tell me, are the employers that have created the illegal problem over the past decades by hiring them for under-the-table jobs and other slave like gigs going to pick up the tab to provide healthcare for those folks they will then employ legally? Health care benefits for all of them?

If so, a lot of Americans would start standing in line for such jobs which they worked before the benefits that they used to come with went away thanks to the "cheap" competition from south of the border. If not, then there's no reason and no justification to make these greedy pigs fatter. In all of the sectors where the greediest employ illegals there are businesses that do not engage in such practices. And thet happen to make it nonetheless.

The notion that this economy would tank w/o the illegals is simply ridiculous.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

...

The notion that this economy would tank w/o the illegals is simply ridiculous.

There have been numerous studies done on the economic impact of illegal immigrants.

To save some time, the total "contribution" by illegal immigrants from these studies ranges from $-5 billion (probably very conservative) to $-200 billion; NOT ONE study showed the net contribution (including sales tax) as positive!

Edited March 27, 2006 by sriniv

[peejay 327]

No their answer lies in illegaly exporting their population into the EU which is no different. So don't use Belarus or any other Eastern European country as an example of what Mexico should do just because Belarusians don't come to the US that often.

What is Mexico supposed to do in your opinion?? Mexico is basically an economic peon of the US; just look at the way in which US sugar subsidies hurt Mexican sugar farmers or at the way in which NAFTA has impacted the Mexican economy.

There are hardly any visas available to Mexicans (or as a matter of fact to people from most third-world countries) partly because the quotas aim to keep the racial distribution in the US intact and to protect the US from the "poor and huddled masses" which helped make this country what it is. People trying to immigrate to the US today are no different than your ancestors only back in the day the borders were not closed by numerical restrictions. You never know if your grandparents wouldn't have entered illegally if things had been the same as today and the same is true for all previous immigrants from Europe).

So what you are saying is that the USA has an "obligation" to take in everyone that wants to come to the USA? Do we demand such concessions of say...the Swiss?

As for your racial distribution theory...quit making this a racial issue or civil rights issue. You may believe throwing out the race card gives you some sort of high moral ground, but it doesn't. Allowing one country to dominate immigration into the USA (mostly illegally) is not diversity. It is insanity. We can already see the rotten fruit that it bears.

Sugar subsidies hurting Mexico? What about what the Chinese are doing to our economy? Do you think the Chinese Communist Party is worried that our trade deficit with them is hugely in their favor? Are their economic decisions based on the wellbeing of US citizens?

Comparing US immigration in my grandparent's time to todays modern America is about like comparing a giraffe to a platypus. It was a different time, different circumstances, a different country.

You don't know my grandparents. You never know...maybe if pigs grew wings...they would fly? Maybe there are some people and governments that don't believe they are above the law. Unfortunately Mexico's public policy is to encourage their people to illegally immigrate for their own self serving agenda and they do. We have a sovereign right to stop it.

Keeping illegal immigrants out of the EU is the problem of the EU. Keeping illegal immigrants out of the USA is America's problem to solve. Just because my ethnic group illegally immigrates anywhere...doesn't mean that I condone it. None of my Belarusian relatives live illegally in the EU.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Because employers will have to pay minimum wage to legal worker and given that illegals normally work for much less than someone will have to foot the bill.

In each sector of the economy where some criminally greedy folks exploit illegals for their own profits, there are honest businesses surviving (and still turning profits). The only ones losing, would be the criminals. I ain't crying a single tear for their losses.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

illegal immigrants should be deported back to their country of origin and made to do things properly. If there weren't illegal immigrants, we wouldn't be going through this immigration hell. They are the reasons we've all waited to immigrate and if they are pardoned it is a slap in the face for us.

I agree with half of what you say with this exception; Anyone that is in the US illegally should be immediately deported and permanently banned from re-entering the US. Additionally, those that are here illegally should be recognized to be the felons that they are. It's a slap in the face to those that have followed all US and immigration laws to provide any service other than deportation, permanent ban, and a felony record.

[pax 0]

One thing I do hate about this illegal immigration debate is that people tend to lose perspective on it. Supporters of allowing low-skilled workers from Mexico or elsewhere to continue to do the jobs that "Americans don't want" are in effect saying that it doesn't matter if honest workers are paid slave wages with no benefits and no legal protection. As long as it turns a profit for Big Business!

Has anyone stopped to ask (1) why Americans allegedly don't want these jobs and (2) what good it really does the illegals coming to take these jobs? If Americans really "don't want" these jobs (and I find it unbelievable, I'm sorry, that not one single American would work in these construction, health, or service jobs), is it because the employers are slave drivers who aren't paying a prevailing wage? If that's so, is it really okay to simply hire illegals who will work under inhumane conditions just because no one is really stopping the greedy employers? And is it really helpful to these workers to be paid low wages with no benefits or legal protections? Is it okay to essentially exploit an entire population with no voice and no rights?

[internetkafe 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the notion that the USA is a sovereign nation is a "Bush'ism", is it not? Unless Bush has recently been crowned... (now don't get me started on the conspiricy theories here...roflmao)

Yes, the US is a sovereign nation as all UN member nations.

sovereign

• noun 1 a king or queen who is the supreme ruler of a country. 2 a former British gold coin worth one pound sterling.

• adjective 1 possessing supreme or ultimate power. 2 (of a nation or its affairs) acting or done independently and without outside interference.

— ORIGIN Old French soverain, from Latin super ‘above’

From http://oxfordonline.com

illegal immigrants should be deported back to their country of origin and made to do things properly. If there weren't illegal immigrants, we wouldn't be going through this immigration hell. They are the reasons we've all waited to immigrate and if they are pardoned it is a slap in the face for us.

I agree with half of what you say with this exception; Anyone that is in the US illegally should be immediately deported and permanently banned from re-entering the US. Additionally, those that are here illegally should be recognized to be the felons that they are. It's a slap in the face to those that have followed all US and immigration laws to provide any service other than deportation, permanent ban, and a felony record.

I fully agree with you!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Has anyone stopped to ask (1) why Americans allegedly don't want these jobs and (2) what good it really does the illegals coming to take these jobs? If Americans really "don't want" these jobs (and I find it unbelievable, I'm sorry, that not one single American would work in these construction, health, or service jobs), is it because the employers are slave drivers who aren't paying a prevailing wage? If that's so, is it really okay to simply hire illegals who will work under inhumane conditions just because no one is really stopping the greedy employers? And is it really helpful to these workers to be paid low wages with no benefits or legal protections? Is it okay to essentially exploit an entire population with no voice and no rights?

That's really the point. It was the combination of the presence of illegals and criminal greed that led to the "creation" of the kind of jobs that Americans don't want. Take the janitors, for example. There used to be American janitors all over the place. They earned a wage on which they could support themselves and maybe even their families. They used to receive benefits, too. Then came illegals who were desperate enough to work for much less and w/o benefits. And there were employers who saw an opportunity to make a quick extra buck. Never mind the law. The result were janitorial jobs that paid sh!t and had no benefits. And now both the criminal employer as well as the criminal illegal laborer stand there and dare lecture the rest of us about the jobs that no American wants. Gotta slap them all!

[pax 0]

That's what I thought, too, Reinhard.