Thousands Protest Immigration Bills

[SteveNanik 0]

I work for a company that is now trying to hire from the hispanic population. Its an issue with me because they will never join the union for the 30 bucks a month. So when they hire more of them it makes our union weaker. Our union is at about 60%. These jobs that they are taking are not bad jobs that no one else wants. When it comes to labor in this country the average american cant compete with the wages they will work for. I personally do not want to live in a 900 square foot house with 20 other people. I would like to keep my job but it looks like i will have to find something new within the next year. Our union will negotiate a new contract this summer, the company has no fear of the workers going on strike simply because they can fill the jobs in a heart beat. They may not be as skilled yet but they are training translators and bringing employees in. Well at least the company will have a higher profit next year.

[JayJay 4]

JayJay, I agree with you.... however... someone who comes to america to escape their warn torn country and to escape from the atrocities committed there are not illegal aliens... they are refugees. that's different.

I know, I knew that would be said by someone - but heck, I'm gonna stick up for the "illegal people" who rode in the back of lorries from China or stowed away because their families were being shot - after all, if they have no papers, they are illegal. I want peace on earth for ALL men...and women!

[rebeccajo 14]

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,

Send these, the homeless tempest-tost to me,

I lift the lamp beside the golden door."

From 'The New Colossus'

Emma Lazarus, 1883

[Fuzzness 2]

JayJay, I agree with you.... however... someone who comes to america to escape their warn torn country and to escape from the atrocities committed there are not illegal aliens... they are refugees. that's different.

I know, I knew that would be said by someone - but heck, I'm gonna stick up for the "illegal people" who rode in the back of lorries from China or stowed away because their families were being shot - after all, if they have no papers, they are illegal. I want peace on earth for ALL men...and women!

But I think that is a totally different situation than what this thing is about. I don't want people to stay somewhere where they are in danger of being killed in their own country. I think this is more about people coming to america because they can make more money than in their own country. It's because of those people that this process takes so long and is so frustrating.

[kerewin21 2]

I need to clarify...Fisch is correct that they are not proposing to give totally free EADS. I was ill-informed on this .

However: how in the heck is an illegal going to come up with that kind of cash to come here? Sounds like it confirms what I previously state that they will continue to come illegally rather than pay $3-4k.

Most of the people who come here illegally through Mexico have paid this much just to do so. They have to pay smugglers to bring them across the border. The link below is for a story about a teenage boy's grueling journey to the US from Honduras. He spends $1700 just for the smuggler, not to mention the money he had to come up with for the trip, all of which was stolen from him along the way:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5225180

This is a story from the TV show Frontline about illegal immigration from Mexico, and some facts from it. Thousands of people have DIED while trying to get here; that seems a higher price than 3-4K.

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/...o/thestory.html

- The average daily wage in Mexico is approximately US$7. In the United States, undocumented workers make an average of 10 times more, or US$70.

-There are an estimated 8 million to 12 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States This is more than double the number since 1994. Approximately 5 million are from Mexico.

-Approximately 900,000 undocumented immigrants were apprehended in 2003 by the U.S. Border Patrol.

-In 2003, 409 migrants died trying to cross the border, compared with approximately 50 in 1995.

I'm not saying what they do is right, but I have sympathy for their often desperate situations. Families are torn apart (like us) with no legal way to reunite (unlike us). We are very fortunate to have a legal way to be together.

It used to be much easier for people from other countries to immigrate here legally. The rules have changed and many people have absolutely no legal way to get here, no matter how much money they have to spend.

I'm not saying what they do is right, but you're wrong to think that it's free or easy, or without substantial risks.

[Satisfaction 1]

SteveT

I understand your concern. What you talk about is "salary dumping". However, if concerns that illegal immigration directly result in salary (or salaries) dumping are somewhat well founded in many European countries, it appears, upon closer examination, that they are not in the US.

"More and more policymakers have come to realize that the U.S. immigration system does not adequately respond to labor shortages in the U.S. economy. However, rational reform of the system is hindered by claims that immigrants “steal” jobs from the native born and drive down wages for native workers by serving as a source of cheap labor. Proponents of restrictive immigration policies, seeking to exploit fears generated by a turbulent economy, attempt to draw parallels between the numbers of recently arrived immigrants and numbers of unemployed native-born workers. Yet the notion that every job filled by an immigrant is one less job available for a native-born worker is inherently simplistic and doesn’t account for the fact that immigrants create jobs or that unemployed natives and immigrant workers often do not compete for the same jobs."

http://www.ailf.org/ipc/policy_reports_200...tialworkers.asp

[SteveNanik 0]

SteveT

I understand your concern. What you talk about is "salary dumping". However, if concerns that illegal immigration directly result in salary (or salaries) dumping are somewhat well founded in many European countries, it appears, upon closer examination, that they are not in the US.

"More and more policymakers have come to realize that the U.S. immigration system does not adequately respond to labor shortages in the U.S. economy. However, rational reform of the system is hindered by claims that immigrants “steal” jobs from the native born and drive down wages for native workers by serving as a source of cheap labor. Proponents of restrictive immigration policies, seeking to exploit fears generated by a turbulent economy, attempt to draw parallels between the numbers of recently arrived immigrants and numbers of unemployed native-born workers. Yet the notion that every job filled by an immigrant is one less job available for a native-born worker is inherently simplistic and doesn’t account for the fact that immigrants create jobs or that unemployed natives and immigrant workers often do not compete for the same jobs."

http://www.ailf.org/ipc/policy_reports_200...tialworkers.asp

I used to work as a subcontractor and i have felt illegal immigration effect on this trade as well. I dont know about the studies, this is just my personal experience. When we were subcontracting siding jobs the illegal crews could bid jobs at 85 per square, at the time the going rate was 125. It crushed the honest worker that carried insurance and paid their help a fair wage. I do not have any bad feelings about the ppl that have came her in search of work. I had a friend that was here illegally and the conditions that he lived in were unbelievable. Like i said earlier 20 ppl in a 900 square foot house. He would send every penny that he could to his wife and children. I recently stopped by his house and he is not living there anymore, i was told he was not going to be coming to the US anymore. He had enough money to live well back home.

[peejay 327]

While everyone's heart is bleeding here...the answer to the world's problems is not to let them all come here and go to work at less than prevailing wages. A lot of what I have read here is pure baloney. There is a huge difference between a genuine refugee and people that pay huge bucks to get smuggled into the USA.

The fact is...the USA has a sovereign right to regulate who comes to this country, how many, and for what purpose. The primary violator of immigration laws is by far Mexico. Nothing will ever change in that country by allowing the entire country to illegally immigrate to America. It is the responsibility of the world's governments (and Mexico's) to care for their own citizens. Where is the outrage at these corrupt oligarchies that fuel illegal immigration? Or is it just sexier to bash America for enforcing its sovereignty as most countries in the world do?

My grandparents immigrated from Belarus and I have many relatives there. The average income there is less than $2400 a year. They are not starving and to compare our economy to theirs is not accurate. While they don't have the material things we have in the USA, it is not a life-threatening event. The answer to Belarus' problems does not lie in importing their entire population to the USA.

Let's get a grip on reality here. Get a reality check!

Illegal aliens don't have migration rights to illegally enter the USA. They do not have special privledges for breaking the law. If they are not real refugees...then they should get whatever sanctions the law prescribes.

Giving amnesties and preferential treatment to scofflaws, absconders, and other violators of immigration law is not the answer. There must be some level of deterent. We all saw what the last amnesty in 1986 spawned...more illegal immigration. Enough is enough.

This is not a racial, civil rights, or humanitarian issue. It is about the right of the USA to make and enforce laws as is its sovereign right. The illegal foreigners in the USA are the responsibility of their own governments.

[mawilson 2,133]

illegal immigrants should be deported back to their country of origin and made to do things properly.

You cannot deport 12-20 million people -- it's as simple as that.

[JayJay 4]

It is about the right of the USA to make and enforce laws as is its sovereign right.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the notion that the USA is a sovereign nation is a "Bush'ism", is it not? Unless Bush has recently been crowned... (now don't get me started on the conspiricy theories here...roflmao)

It's all good to make and enforce laws, all right. But we've had a debate before about this. How could these people possibly all be sent home anyway? Are we really going to sit and be so stoic that we insist they should be "made an example of"?

To me, that's just naff. We're not dealing with kids here, we're dealing with humans, who have feelings, and who have families. It's not good enough to say "tough sh*t", if you're the largest land mass and the self-proclaimed "land of the brave and the free". You want to be a large, powerful nation - you show mercy as well. To do anything else in my opinion is greedy, and cowardly, and altogether picking at sticks.

There are a lot of things that should be made easier - but how about this for a suggestion: this immigration process, the one we're all going through: well, you can either complain that it is bad, long, hard and arduous, or perhaps view it as a character building experience - heck - a lot of people go through bad stuff - some people get held hostage for years, or are tortured by terrible regimes in other countries. The remote isn't always going to be where you want it; this is the only country where we've got drive-thru banking in almost every town "for your convenience".

If you dislike what an administration is doing, in my opinion, question the administration - don't go to war with people who have no control over what they're being given...because you have the vote, not them (if that means anything - it ought to when talking about soemthing this political...).

How about an alternative: invite a few over to dinner, and see what they've been through. Psychologically or physically. Find out their grandparent's names, and whether they ever dreamed of having more children. At the end of it all, we're all humans, and we're all equal - the only way you can rise above bad behaviour is to do something differently. So go ahead - make your own legacy. Maybe if enough do this, we really can change the world, so that we can all live in harmony.

But you, as well as I, know that sitting back and complaining about things not working isn't going to make a blind bit of difference for the good, and neither is deportation.

Edited March 27, 2006 by JayJay

[peejay 327]

You cannot deport 12-20 million people -- it's as simple as that.

No, but if they are no longer allowed to work illegally and they don't have authorization to work...they will not stick around. After all...they have broken many laws (immigration, employment, etc.). The USA doesn't owe them anything but the paycheck they already got paid (illegally). I know that I'll probably get flamed for being callous, uncaring, and downright mean, but where is the outcry for the American jobs that are outsourced overseas. What about the factories that get closed and shipped overseas (often to countries that contribute many of their citizens to the ranks of the illegal aliens here).

I know many Americans that have worked overseas and when its over they go home. My dad worked in Canada in the early 1970's and was told to leave (to protect Canadian jobs?). So he left. Be glad for what you got and move on.

What...are illegal aliens entitled to lifetime employment now?

I'm not even guaranteed lifetime employment!

[I'm Gone 60]

While everyone's heart is bleeding here...the answer to the world's problems is not to let them all come here and go to work at less than prevailing wages. A lot of what I have read here is pure baloney. There is a huge difference between a genuine refugee and people that pay huge bucks to get smuggled into the USA.

The fact is...the USA has a sovereign right to regulate who comes to this country, how many, and for what purpose. The primary violator of immigration laws is by far Mexico. Nothing will ever change in that country by allowing the entire country to illegally immigrate to America. It is the responsibility of the world's governments (and Mexico's) to care for their own citizens. Where is the outrage at these corrupt oligarchies that fuel illegal immigration? Or is it just sexier to bash America for enforcing its sovereignty as most countries in the world do?

My grandparents immigrated from Belarus and I have many relatives there. The average income there is less than $2400 a year. They are not starving and to compare our economy to theirs is not accurate. While they don't have the material things we have in the USA, it is not a life-threatening event. The answer to Belarus' problems does not lie in importing their entire population to the USA.

Let's get a grip on reality here. Get a reality check!

Illegal aliens don't have migration rights to illegally enter the USA. They do not have special privledges for breaking the law. If they are not real refugees...then they should get whatever sanctions the law prescribes.

Giving amnesties and preferential treatment to scofflaws, absconders, and other violators of immigration law is not the answer. There must be some level of deterent. We all saw what the last amnesty in 1986 spawned...more illegal immigration. Enough is enough.

This is not a racial, civil rights, or humanitarian issue. It is about the right of the USA to make and enforce laws as is its sovereign right. The illegal foreigners in the USA are the responsibility of their own governments.

Amen brother. Now it if only we could get the 435 in House, 100 in the Senate and the 1 in the White House to realize this.

[Laveau 67]

While everyone's heart is bleeding here...the answer to the world's problems is not to let them all come here and go to work at less than prevailing wages. A lot of what I have read here is pure baloney. There is a huge difference between a genuine refugee and people that pay huge bucks to get smuggled into the USA.

The fact is...the USA has a sovereign right to regulate who comes to this country, how many, and for what purpose. The primary violator of immigration laws is by far Mexico. Nothing will ever change in that country by allowing the entire country to illegally immigrate to America. It is the responsibility of the world's governments (and Mexico's) to care for their own citizens. Where is the outrage at these corrupt oligarchies that fuel illegal immigration? Or is it just sexier to bash America for enforcing its sovereignty as most countries in the world do?

My grandparents immigrated from Belarus and I have many relatives there. The average income there is less than $2400 a year. They are not starving and to compare our economy to theirs is not accurate. While they don't have the material things we have in the USA, it is not a life-threatening event. The answer to Belarus' problems does not lie in importing their entire population to the USA.

Let's get a grip on reality here. Get a reality check!

Illegal aliens don't have migration rights to illegally enter the USA. They do not have special privledges for breaking the law. If they are not real refugees...then they should get whatever sanctions the law prescribes.

Giving amnesties and preferential treatment to scofflaws, absconders, and other violators of immigration law is not the answer. There must be some level of deterent. We all saw what the last amnesty in 1986 spawned...more illegal immigration. Enough is enough.

This is not a racial, civil rights, or humanitarian issue. It is about the right of the USA to make and enforce laws as is its sovereign right. The illegal foreigners in the USA are the responsibility of their own governments.

Well said. I agree.

[Fandango 1,440]

Add a 'me three' for PeeJay

[mawilson 2,133]

You cannot deport 12-20 million people -- it's as simple as that.

No, but if they are no longer allowed to work illegally and they don't have authorization to work...they will not stick around.

If you go after the employers and force them to lay off 12-20 million illegals (which is what

I presume you mean by "no longer allowing them to work here illegally"), the shock would

send the fragile US economy into a recession of catastrophic proportions. The government

would have to heavily subsidize employers for this strategy to ever work -- we're talking

$5,000-10,000 per illegal (to pull a number out of the air). Now 60-200 billion dollars is not

just something you put out on the table and hope that it works - and definitely not something

the government would choose to do voluntarily.