Thousands Protest Immigration Bills

[almaty 19]

People complain about illegals flooding the labour market and how the government should start strictly enforcing the border, fining and gaoling employers etc. but are they really prepared to pay out of their own pocket if those same employers have to start hiring American citizens at the minimum wage?

That statement, of course, assumes that the savings from the low cost labor is indeed passed on to the consumer. Rest assured that it is not. 75% of farm workers receive at least minimum wage. As do 75% or better of restaurant workers and janitors. Do you honestly believe that the lower wages of the 25% or less of that workforce which is illegal and which is employed below minimum wage and/or at less than lawful conditions is money that is left in your pocket? Better think again...

true..the $ goes not so much to the farmer..but to the middle man/woman business that delivers to sthe stores..

[babybunny 2]

If America wants to make things "easier" for the illegals, then this friggin' process that all of us have to go through to be with our beloveds should be made easier as well.

Exactly!

I agree

[Satisfaction 1]

In any case, I can't see how you can protest your right to break the law.

Exactly!

Tomorrow we'll cheer the tax evaders protesting against the damn tax code that causes them to break the law just because they don't feel like paying taxes.

Perhaps a bit of studying tax laws would help you avoid sweeping generalisations.

Perhaps not reading more into a statement than was written would help you avoid completely missing the point.

No I didn't miss the point. Actually, people who have studied U.S. tax laws for quite a number of years would find your statement hilarious. That's just the sort of incisive financial analysis we need here in the Treasury.

Talking about "people who don't feel like paying taxes" and opportunities for money laundering, do you see philanthropist billionaires, corporate shareholders and executive, thugs running the US government, and other sharks across the water going to take on the streets and protest against the dam tax codes? Don't they make the laws? Huh... Sort of!!! Reading the newspaper the other day, I bet Mr. Abramoff's jail time will be short, despite leaving such a messy trail of evidence in a bribery scandal.

But that's a whole different debate. Let's go back to illegal immigrants cleaning the toilets and not paying taxes...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

People complain about illegals flooding the labour market and how the government should start strictly enforcing the border, fining and gaoling employers etc. but are they really prepared to pay out of their own pocket if those same employers have to start hiring American citizens at the minimum wage?

That statement, of course, assumes that the savings from the low cost labor is indeed passed on to the consumer. Rest assured that it is not. 75% of farm workers receive at least minimum wage. As do 75% or better of restaurant workers and janitors. Do you honestly believe that the lower wages of the 25% or less of that workforce which is illegal and which is employed below minimum wage and/or at less than lawful conditions is money that is left in your pocket? Better think again...

I doubt very much that it is directly passed on to the consumer, but its a reasonable assumption that the economy derives some benefit from a huge pool of low-cost labour. Take that away and you can bet that the cost will be passed on to the consumer.

[Donna A 4]

my opinion....illigal is illigal. u cant reward them for being illigal. there are many teenages im sure who would go to work for these farmers in the summer. if they will work for mcdonalds they will work for farmers too.

after these illigals get their citizenship do u really think they are going to stay in low paying farming jobs? hell no...they will go after the good ones then. where does that leave us?

[pedroh 21]

my opinion....illigal is illigal. u cant reward them for being illigal. there are many teenages im sure who would go to work for these farmers in the summer. if they will work for mcdonalds they will work for farmers too.

after these illigals get their citizenship do u really think they are going to stay in low paying farming jobs? hell no...they will go after the good ones then. where does that leave us?

well.. for starters.. these Illigals surely won't take your job, because usually they don't have the required education and/or experience... now.. if a 'good job' for you is a physical job i.e. contractor, dry wall, house builder, plumber.. etc.. then.. probably.. but for me.. a good job is an office job, a CEO, or something like that, and I bet 100 dollars u'll never see a US citizen 'mojado' working in a Radioshack....

(and actually.. even if they're illegal.. a farming job is not low payed.. here the illegals earn between 9-12 bucks an hour.. hot damn thats way more than what I get!)

so freakin PWNED

and no.. I know a lot of teens in this area, and they wouldn't work in farm.. its way harder than McDonalds even though pay is better.. why? they dont have to be outside getting burned, dehydrated.. and in the back doors of Mickey d's they can smoke their #######.. lol

and actually i have this anecdote.. meaning that probly illegals getting legallized would make the american grunt job more competitive..

last summer.. when the tail of hurricane hit NC.. my dish system got messed up.. the dish was moved.. one of the cables got a short i dunno how.. i called the phone number in the back of my remote.. they were gonna schedule me a date for like 2 weeks after and charge me 90 bucks... i was.. damn..

i called one of those hispanic adds for dish latino (which actually get the same training, and im sure the dudes were legal)... they came after 6pm (fact, americans dont do jack after 5pm lol, only in retail, and overtime office).. and the guy charged me 40 bucks... for the whole thing.. meaning what? next time i have a problem. im gonna call him, and i'm recommending him.. morale? probably there will be more competitiveness.. and that's good..

Edited April 2, 2006 by pedroh

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

well.. for starters.. these Illigals surely won't take your job, because usually they don't have the required education and/or experience... now.. if a 'good job' for you is a physical job i.e. contractor, dry wall, house builder, plumber.. etc.. then.. probably.. but for me.. a good job is an office job, a CEO, or something like that, and I bet 100 dollars u'll never see a US citizen 'mojado' working in a Radioshack....

Interesting point about what constitutes a "good job", Pedro.

I'm in IT and an ex-colleague of mine has transitioned his career to HVAC and is making more than he ever did in IT.

So why is it that so many people, including myself from time to time, don't consider those "good jobs"?

Beats me. Fact: labor pays well. Some of my neighbors are blue-collar and many of them drive better cars than I do. Of course, they could be carrying debt so who knows...

[pedroh 21]

well it'd depend on the person.. its true that blue collar pays more.. but.. for me blue collar is not a 'good job'.. if for someone else it is. then... good for them... i dont have anything agains them.. but personally.. I do feel grunt job is overpriced.. so when some amigos come and charge half of what they do.. its when it becomes more competitive IMHO

i.e.... i know that in the food processing plant i'd be making 15 an hour just telling Jose and Pepe to hurry up production and walk behind the shift manager or supervisor (yes, just for translating).. but.. for me waking up at 6am and work to 5pm or until production is finished.. and stink to pig and bacon all day long.. its not appealing.. and not worth it.. here i make a little bit less.. i can get promoted soon.. to a managerial position.. is just more comfy.. now if I needed to.. then that'd be a different story.. but for personal satisfaction or motivation.. its not my thing

Edited April 2, 2006 by pedroh

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

well it'd depend on the person.. its true that blue collar pays more.. but.. for me blue collar is not a 'good job'.. if for someone else it is. then... good for them... i dont have anything agains them.. but personally.. I do feel grunt job is overpriced.. so when some amigos come and charge half of what they do.. its when it becomes more competitive IMHO

i.e.... i know that in the food processing plant i'd be making 15 an hour just telling Jose and Pepe to hurry up production and walk behind the shift manager or supervisor (yes, just for translating).. but.. for me waking up at 6am and work to 5pm or until production is finished.. and stink to pig and bacon all day long.. its not appealing.. and not worth it.. here i make a little bit less.. i can get promoted soon.. to a managerial position.. is just more comfy.. now if I needed to.. then that'd be a different story.. but for personal satisfaction or motivation.. its not my thing

I understand. We all have our personal preferences and that's fine. But part of the rationale of those who apologize for illegal immigrants is that these jobs are not "good jobs", and in terms of these jobs paying a living wage, that is just not true. Which is why no matter what ones personal preferences may be, I think it's important to understand that when an illegal immigrant takes a job of this nature, he or she is not just taking "a job no American wants", but a well paying job. A good job.

IMHO.

[pedroh 21]

true.. true..

but again, on the other side.. it makes the business more competitive.. having more competitive prices for blue collar jobs..because usually those kinda jobs are own-business.. but i do agree that when a company (like the food processing plants around where i live lol) hire illegals instead of legal immigrants or americans.. they're taking the 12 dollars and something that any other family needs too..

[Fischkoepfin 1]

As I said before the way the quotas are administered is racist because they favor white immigration over non-white immigration, which happens to be a fact. Race is an arbitrary citerion when it comes to meeting the need of US companies to hire workers on all skill levels and legislating/mandating what skin color/nationality an immigrant has everything to do with racial distribution and nothing with qualifications.

Can you back your claim up with some numbers?

Sorry it took me a while to reply, but I was on the road to obtain my visa.

Here's an article that discusses the biases in the immigration system. Pedroh is right that the official quotas have been abolished, but racial selectivity continues on. A primary example is the lottery which was originally instituted to increase the number of European immigrants from certain countries, but race also plays a role in the approval rates of visa application in family and work related immigration.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Ok, so I heard an interesting thought on the radio this morning. This comes from Donald Trump. Why not leave it as is? Why do we need to reform this at all?

Your thoughts, please.

[Mirorgate 0]

Ok, so I heard an interesting thought on the radio this morning. This comes from Donald Trump. Why not leave it as is? Why do we need to reform this at all?

Your thoughts, please.

Because as is, its a bureucratic nightmare. waste of money that doesnt help the problems associated with immigration, both legal and the prevention of illegal. Ah the status quo... no help no hinder plan. And he wants to run for congress was it?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Ok, so I heard an interesting thought on the radio this morning. This comes from Donald Trump. Why not leave it as is? Why do we need to reform this at all?

Your thoughts, please.

Because as is, its a bureucratic nightmare. waste of money that doesnt help the problems associated with immigration, both legal and the prevention of illegal. Ah the status quo... no help no hinder plan. And he wants to run for congress was it?

His argument was that any solution we come up with will bring along its own problems and costs, and that the "cost" of "solving" the problem was more than the "cost" of the status quo.

[pedroh 21]

but again.. i do think a reform or not-reform with the illegals would affect the k1,k-3 process at all.. so what they do... it ain't family visas' businesses

As I said before the way the quotas are administered is racist because they favor white immigration over non-white immigration, which happens to be a fact. Race is an arbitrary citerion when it comes to meeting the need of US companies to hire workers on all skill levels and legislating/mandating what skin color/nationality an immigrant has everything to do with racial distribution and nothing with qualifications.

Can you back your claim up with some numbers?

Sorry it took me a while to reply, but I was on the road to obtain my visa.

Here's an article that discusses the biases in the immigration system. Pedroh is right that the official quotas have been abolished, but racial selectivity continues on. A primary example is the lottery which was originally instituted to increase the number of European immigrants from certain countries, but race also plays a role in the approval rates of visa application in family and work related immigration.

dude.. common sense.. just ask around.. a visa from a nice european country takes a lot less than a eastern european country(a.k.a commie countries for americanos) and latin american countries.. and asian countries take forever compared to latin american countries..