Thousands Protest Immigration Bills

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

... I am able to put faces and stories behind the words illegal immigrant.

As can I. Sort of. Doesn't mean I'll sit here and condone it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

... I am able to put faces and stories behind the words illegal immigrant.

As can I. Sort of. Doesn't mean I'll sit here and condone it.

Out here in Cali there's been a big problem with student absences from school - because a bunch of kids decided to use the immigration protests as an excuse to cut school.

Most protests are futile anyway - they're often remembered for all the wrong reasons - that small minority of idiots and troublemakers attract more attention than the cause people were demonstrating about.

In any case, I can't see how you can protest your right to break the law. Seems a bit #######-eyed to me...

[Aymerlu 3]

If America wants to make things "easier" for the illegals, then this friggin' process that all of us have to go through to be with our beloveds should be made easier as well.

Exactly!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

In any case, I can't see how you can protest your right to break the law.

Exactly!

Tomorrow we'll cheer the tax evaders protesting against the damn tax code that causes them to break the law just because they don't feel like paying taxes.

[Satisfaction 1]

I knew I shouldn't have posted in this thread. God forbid I would have an opinion about what is happening in the state I live in...

Southern Californian,

You're absolutely right so why do you do it again? Compulsive behavior perhaps?

As for "camps" in Cancun, it was a joke but I suppose at your level it is too hard to think and understand. I would like to explain but why try? But thanks for sharing your thoughts, I am quite happy to hear them.

[Satisfaction 1]

In any case, I can't see how you can protest your right to break the law.

Exactly!

Tomorrow we'll cheer the tax evaders protesting against the damn tax code that causes them to break the law just because they don't feel like paying taxes.

Interesting point indeed. Perhaps a bit of studying tax laws would help you avoid sweeping generalisations.

In America, the poor receive welfare. The middle-class gives between 10% and 35% of their income. The rich pay 50% and more. Many are calling for even higher taxes. Through tax-exempt foundations, though, which allow the elite to shield their money from the income tax and conduct social engineering projects, the rich have paid relatively little. Some have not paid a cent, including the richest families in this country. Perfectly legal though.

[pedroh 21]

lol.. I was listening to Vicente Fox on the news.. I thought his ideas would be more crazy.. but.. it was more relaxed than I thought.. legalize the million and a half illegals that are here in USA and start the temporary worker program, that would allow a certain quota from mexico each year.. the problem is, how are they gonna control the quota, and.. is it gonna be million and a half and thats it?

i know its not the best.. but i think its not a bad start.. easier than spending a ton of money in a big wall with armed guards.. if it's true that Mexico is also gonna respect the quotas and start increasing jobs in Mexico so the workers don't have to cross the border..

well.. we'll see what happens.. again.. I respect the american laws.. and either decision from the congress I think will be the best..

[Jasman0717 9]

[pedroh 21]

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

In any case, I can't see how you can protest your right to break the law.

Exactly!

Tomorrow we'll cheer the tax evaders protesting against the damn tax code that causes them to break the law just because they don't feel like paying taxes.

Perhaps a bit of studying tax laws would help you avoid sweeping generalisations.

Perhaps not reading more into a statement than was written would help you avoid completely missing the point.

[almaty 19]

i think bush will listen to fox on this

[Satisfaction 1]

lol.. I was listening to Vicente Fox on the news.. I thought his ideas would be more crazy.. but.. it was more relaxed than I thought.. legalize the million and a half illegals that are here in USA and start the temporary worker program, that would allow a certain quota from mexico each year.. the problem is, how are they gonna control the quota, and.. is it gonna be million and a half and thats it?

i know its not the best.. but i think its not a bad start.. easier than spending a ton of money in a big wall with armed guards.. if it's true that Mexico is also gonna respect the quotas and start increasing jobs in Mexico so the workers don't have to cross the border..

well.. we'll see what happens.. again.. I respect the american laws.. and either decision from the congress I think will be the best..

Let's see what happens... Something has to be done anyway.

The failure to deal with the immigration system in a comprehensive manner can only result in a system that is further unmanageable. There are currently too few legal channels available to Mexican workers in particular and an increasing foreign population living here outside of the law. Such policies are not in tune with reality, and the need for change is becoming increasingly urgent. Unlike a few people on VJ, I don't think mass deportation are the solution to the vexing issue of what to do with undocumented immigrants. Deportation and "enforcement only" policies are bad policies. They may have the same repercussions that increased enforcement at the US-Mexican border has had: turning temporary illegal migrant workers into permanent illegal migrant workers, who opt to have their families smuggled into the United States once, rather than paying multiple smuggler’s fees and repeatedly risking assault, theft, injury, or apprehension on trips back and forth themselves.

As for people who call for a multi million fence, I believe that there is a better comprehensive view of border management. Uncalculated costs for such infrastructure, and the risk that the system, even when fully deployed, may not achieve the counterterrorism objectives envisioned. What will this do to stop the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in other parts of the world and how will it disturb terrorist groups from adding more recruits to their ranks? The idea of a Soviet era iron wall at my door is not an idea that I find very attractive either. Even the Iron Wall of the ex USSR - while oppressing its own citizen trapped inside and stripping them further from all civil liberties - did not do much in retrospect to stop terrorist groups from infiltrating Russia or Chechnya. At the same time, it made the tasks of the government to round up, incarcerate and torture its dissidents (or people deemed “unpatriotic” in this regard) a lot much easier.

To go back to an earlier discussion; if a terrorist were to pose as an illegal migrant laborer who made his way to Mexico and wanted to be smuggled across the border, he would run the risks faced by all smuggled migrants: being robbed, abandoned in the dessert, and possibly dying there, in addition to the risk of being apprehended and deported. As long as a potential terrorist can steal or purchase a stolen passport and enter the US with little reason to fear being caught, it makes little sense for a terrorist organization to attempt to smuggle its operatives by having them take the dangerous trek through mountains and deserts along the US-Mexican border that most of those smuggled endure. Counterterrorism experts tell us that the key to fighting terrorism effectively is intelligence, analysis, and information sharing.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The government will never do anything serious about illegal immigration, while policy is being decided by competing and clearly divergent forces - corporate special interest vs. social conservatism.

You hear a lot about 'illegal immigrants' doing jobs Americans won't do', but its obviously more about providing an inexhaustible source of low-cost labour that isn't bound by US labour laws.

I heard on the radio today that CA was considering raising the state minimum wage by $1/hr. Despite rising inflation a lot of people think that's a bad idea, because retail prices will rise (as they did the last time the minimum wage was increased).

People complain about illegals flooding the labour market and how the government should start strictly enforcing the border, fining and gaoling employers etc. but are they really prepared to pay out of their own pocket if those same employers have to start hiring American citizens at the minimum wage?

Something clearly has to be done to control the influx of undocumented people, but it can't happen until America as a whole weans itself off this reliance on an underclass of migrant workers who work for pennies while having no protection under the law. For all the money taxpayers spend providing medical care and other benefits for these people, we do derive (albeit indirectly) some economic benefits from illegal workers. If our standard of living started to cost a lot more, are we really prepared to make those sacrifices to ensure a secure border? I'm not so sure...

Everyone's a victim here - except those pulling the strings... The problem is you won't see ANYONE run for president or elected office who isn't #######-deep in corporate interest... Its a much bigger problem that simply building a wall across the mexican border.

Clearly a start has to be made somewhere...

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

People complain about illegals flooding the labour market and how the government should start strictly enforcing the border, fining and gaoling employers etc. but are they really prepared to pay out of their own pocket if those same employers have to start hiring American citizens at the minimum wage?

That statement, of course, assumes that the savings from the low cost labor is indeed passed on to the consumer. Rest assured that it is not. 75% of farm workers receive at least minimum wage. As do 75% or better of restaurant workers and janitors. Do you honestly believe that the lower wages of the 25% or less of that workforce which is illegal and which is employed below minimum wage and/or at less than lawful conditions is money that is left in your pocket? Better think again...

Edited April 1, 2006 by ET-US2004

[KarenCee 3]

People complain about illegals flooding the labour market and how the government should start strictly enforcing the border, fining and gaoling employers etc. but are they really prepared to pay out of their own pocket if those same employers have to start hiring American citizens at the minimum wage?

That statement, of course, assumes that the savings from the low cost labor is indeed passed on to the consumer. Rest assured that it is not. 75% of farm workers receive at least minimum wage. As do 75% or better of restaurant workers and janitors. Do you honestly believe that the lower wages of the 25% or less of that workforce which is illegal and which is employed below minimum wage and/or at less than lawful conditions is money that is left in your pocket? Better think again...

Oh god, don't get me started on taxes....another soapbox of mine.