Thousands Protest Immigration Bills

[Niphredil 0]

I want to ask you all this . how many people in america really would do those jobs the illegals tend to do? I know I would not be cleaning offices and cutting lawns. what happen if we did not have people doing these things?

Unfortunatly, it's a self perpetuating problem.

He looks at vegies, cause you need vegies to stay healthy.

On the shelf is 1 head of lettuce for $5. It comes from a farm that employs LEGAL immigrant and/or local guys, pays for all of their medicals and whatelse they need to be legal.

Next to it is another head of lettuce for $2.50. It comes from a farm that employs illegals.

what hell store you shop at? never seen ice burg for 5.00 - try again!

even 2.50 is debateable because Kroger dont sell ice burg for no 2.50

its 99c.

Okay, maybe I should have pointed out that I'm from AUSTRALIA, and that I have zero dea of prices in america. I pulled those numbers out of my butt.

Meanwhile, I've seen lettuce for $10 aud here....

Btw, did anyone actually read to the END of it? I added that yes, it would be hard for americans to find out which farms they come from x.X

Edited March 27, 2006 by Niphredil

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

On the shelf is 1 head of lettuce for $5. It comes from a farm that employs LEGAL immigrant and/or local guys, pays for all of their medicals and whatelse they need to be legal.

Next to it is another head of lettuce for $2.50. It comes from a farm that employs illegals.

Okay, maybe I should have pointed out that I'm from AUSTRALIA, and that I have zero dea of prices in america. I pulled those numbers out of my butt.

You mean you just fabricated data to make illegals look good?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

12 million people no longer receiving health care.....does that mean we need less doctors, nurses, staff, workers at the drug companies, workers at the medical supply companies.......that's a big hit to the system.

Come again? Providing health care to aliens at the sole cost of US taxpayers and health-insured folks is a benefit to the US economy? Are you for real? Paying out billions of dollars each year to provide these services (borrowed billions no less) is nothing you and I benefit from.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

12 million people no longer receiving health care.....does that mean we need less doctors, nurses, staff, workers at the drug companies, workers at the medical supply companies.......that's a big hit to the system.

Come again? Providing health care to aliens at the sole cost of US taxpayers and health-insured folks is a benefit to the US economy? Are you for real? Paying out billions of dollars each year to provide these services (borrowed billions no less) is nothing you and I benefit from.

ET,

I believe merc's point is that a huge workforce of legal workers exists to serve the needs of illegals.

[Mirorgate 0]

I want to ask you all this . how many people in america really would do those jobs the illegals tend to do? I know I would not be cleaning offices and cutting lawns. what happen if we did not have people doing these things?

Growign up I did cut lawns for spending cash as a teen. I also mucked stalls/baled hay/drove tracktor/rough carpentry/plastering/fast food service/highway trash patrol/cleaned houses/cleaned parks/collected cans/delivery truck/appliance delivery/janitor/ list goes on.

My question then to you. What would you do to survive and provide for your family? Remember, you can't cherry pick here... family is needing to survive now.... not when you won't feel demeened because of the job you do. Do you define your life? Or what you do defines it for you?

That's the real question.

[Niphredil 0]

On the shelf is 1 head of lettuce for $5. It comes from a farm that employs LEGAL immigrant and/or local guys, pays for all of their medicals and whatelse they need to be legal.

Next to it is another head of lettuce for $2.50. It comes from a farm that employs illegals.

Okay, maybe I should have pointed out that I'm from AUSTRALIA, and that I have zero dea of prices in america. I pulled those numbers out of my butt.

You mean you just fabricated data to make illegals look good?

o.o... what? no.

If stuff that comes from farms that employ legal immigrants was CHEAPER then from illegals, then more people would employ legals because people are buying more. Consumers only care about the bottom line.

As is, its cheap because the labor is cheap, thus they can sell more for cheaper then others. Can't sell stuff if it costs more, unless it's a quality product, and even then, most still only care about the price.

Consumers have a part in this problem too, but, as I noted, it's a lot harder for americans to find out which of these farms/companies employ illegals, then it is for Australians who can just look on the back of the can.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Would you steal bread if your family was starving?

Clichées don't help an honest debate, merc. Those really desperate and poor with actually starving families have no way of even making it here. Nor do they have the luxury of pondering such thoughts.

Put it in perspective.....these people are essentially stealing. I worked on a farm for a few summers and spent a lot of time with some illegal Mexican workers. Their life wasn't exactly wine and roses and they sent their money back home to support their families....all the while living on as little as possible. They were in that sense stealing to feed their family.

The cliche is not irrelevant in this case....it is a form of the same question.

Stealing? Yes. Starving? No. Wine and Roses? Who said that their illegal existences here are wine and roses?

Yes, they are poorer than the average guy in this here country. But the poorest guy over there is still relatively wealthy compared to the really poor in this world.

Mexico's 2005 per capita GNI was $6,770.00. That compares to a per capita GNI of just over $6,000.00 for Poland (that's a EU member nation that is poorer than Mexico) or to a per capita GNI of $1,290.00 for China and per capita GNI's of around $100.00 elsewhere in the really poor parts of the world. It all needs to be put in some perspective indeed. And once you do, you'll realize that Mexico ain't nowhere near the bottom.

People from Poland are working illegally in Germany, and people from Russia (and most likely other former Soviet Republics) are working illegally in Poland. It's a chain industry, and Poland is both a huge donor to the illegal labor market as well as suffering from problems due to illegal labor.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

12 million people no longer receiving health care.....does that mean we need less doctors, nurses, staff, workers at the drug companies, workers at the medical supply companies.......that's a big hit to the system.

Come again? Providing health care to aliens at the sole cost of US taxpayers and health-insured folks is a benefit to the US economy? Are you for real? Paying out billions of dollars each year to provide these services (borrowed billions no less) is nothing you and I benefit from.

ET,

I believe merc's point is that a huge workforce of legal workers exists to serve the needs of illegals.

I know that that is what he's saying. But that service costs huge. It's not a benfit for the economy. If it was, you better believe we'd be shelling out "free" health care to all our neighbors. Think of the millions in well paid jobs that would create...

Edited March 27, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Fischkoepfin 1]

To convince me that there is no racism behind the immigration quotas which are clearly targeted at keeping the country white will be difficult. What are the reasons for giving higher quotas to European countries if not maintaining current racial distributions? It's most likely not education since that falls into a different category. I'm wasn't making this a race issue or a civil rights issue, because not every time someone says "race" it is civil rights that are being discussed. Btw, this is not just about Mexico because not all illegal immigrants come from Mexico. Mexico just happens to be a convenient scapegoat, and thus follows into the footsteps of nations from which immigrants came in earlier times among them Germany, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Russia. Do you honestly think the Mexican government is responsible for illlegal immigration???

So the answer to the world's problems is to reduce the population of the USA and EU to what...50%, 25%, 10% white? Maybe we should force Japan (a rich industrialized democracy) to take in huge numbers of non-Asian races. Do you think they would go for it? These theories are preposterous.

Mexico is not a convenient scapegoat...they are just the shameless major contributor of illegal immigration to the USA. Instead of bashing America because its sexy...why not take Mexico to task for its corrupt oligarchic ways. They will NEVER change as long as they can shove their problems across the border.

Yeah, sure. So what if there are more non-whites living in either Europe or the US. Who cares?

As to bashing the US because it is sexy, I'm not aware of doing that nor do I mean to. I'm also happy to bash Europe anytime, because I oppose the bigotry of most politicians and governments regardless of of nationality...

[babybunny 2]

I want to ask you all this . how many people in america really would do those jobs the illegals tend to do? I know I would not be cleaning offices and cutting lawns. what happen if we did not have people doing these things?

The unemployment rate among youth in urban areas in our country is in the double digits. Close to 50, in certain demographics. The legal labor supply absolutely does exist.

And in college, I did take a gig cleaning dorm rooms in preparation for students moving back in. That position was closed to illegal immigrants and the wages were pretty good for a 19 year old kid. That's an example of a "menial" job that did not have artifically depressed wages due to illegal immigrants.

ohhhh i see..

[Fischkoepfin 1]

People from Poland move to better off EU countries, work there and send the money home.

The EU allows that, though. It's legal. World of difference.

It's not legal because many EU countries differentiate between the recent Eastern European members and the old Western European members when it comes to work permits. No labor mobility in the EU for the coming years...

[babybunny 2]

I want to ask you all this . how many people in america really would do those jobs the illegals tend to do? I know I would not be cleaning offices and cutting lawns. what happen if we did not have people doing these things?

Growign up I did cut lawns for spending cash as a teen. I also mucked stalls/baled hay/drove tracktor/rough carpentry/plastering/fast food service/highway trash patrol/cleaned houses/cleaned parks/collected cans/delivery truck/appliance delivery/janitor/ list goes on.

My question then to you. What would you do to survive and provide for your family? Remember, you can't cherry pick here... family is needing to survive now.... not when you won't feel demeened because of the job you do. Do you define your life? Or what you do defines it for you?

That's the real question.

I would have no choice but to do domestics. but, I am not in survival mode.

and forced to do domestics.

I want to ask you all this . how many people in america really would do those jobs the illegals tend to do? I know I would not be cleaning offices and cutting lawns. what happen if we did not have people doing these things?

Unfortunatly, it's a self perpetuating problem.

He looks at vegies, cause you need vegies to stay healthy.

On the shelf is 1 head of lettuce for $5. It comes from a farm that employs LEGAL immigrant and/or local guys, pays for all of their medicals and whatelse they need to be legal.

Next to it is another head of lettuce for $2.50. It comes from a farm that employs illegals.

you lose credibility when you offer Fake Statistical data.

did you not take "Critical Thinking " class.

what hell store you shop at? never seen ice burg for 5.00 - try again!

even 2.50 is debateable because Kroger dont sell ice burg for no 2.50

its 99c.

Okay, maybe I should have pointed out that I'm from AUSTRALIA, and that I have zero dea of prices in america. I pulled those numbers out of my butt.

Meanwhile, I've seen lettuce for $10 aud here....

Btw, did anyone actually read to the END of it? I added that yes, it would be hard for americans to find out which farms they come from x.X

[mawilson 2,133]

People from Poland move to better off EU countries, work there and send the money home.

The EU allows that, though. It's legal. World of difference.

It's not legal because many EU countries differentiate between the recent Eastern European members and the old Western European members when it comes to work permits.

Maybe Germany does. I am 100% positive that the UK does not make that distinction.

Any EU citizen can legally work and live in the UK / Eire.

[mercuryroad 0]

12 million people no longer receiving health care.....does that mean we need less doctors, nurses, staff, workers at the drug companies, workers at the medical supply companies.......that's a big hit to the system.

Come again? Providing health care to aliens at the sole cost of US taxpayers and health-insured folks is a benefit to the US economy? Are you for real? Paying out billions of dollars each year to provide these services (borrowed billions no less) is nothing you and I benefit from.

ET,

I believe merc's point is that a huge workforce of legal workers exists to serve the needs of illegals.

I know that that is what he's saying. But that service costs huge. It's not a benfit for the economy. If it was, you better believe we'd be shelling out "free" health care to all our neighbors. Think of the millions in well paid jobs that would create...

I don't disagree....but you have to admit there is some negative economic fallout of removing 20 million people from this country. These people do not send all of their money home.....they have to consume goods while they are here.

I just still don't see the great big benefit to us all here.......I understand your argument, but things will be offset to some degree.

[babybunny 2]

what is the ideal solution?

its a catch 22. dayum if you do.. dayum if you dont.