Meeting during k1 visa process

[JasonGG 280]

3 minutes ago, DaveAndAnastasia said:

FWIW, someone here had a rule of thumb that if you what you're sending to USCIS at any stage in the K-1 process does not fit in a USPS priority mail letter envelope, you're almost certainly sending too much. Which I think is right.

Depends on if you are dealing with a high fraud country or not and if front loading is expected.  Vietnam has documentation the consulate likes to see that others don't require.  Honduras may have its own requirements. - Jason 

[Difrntway 28]

1 hour ago, JasonGG said:

Depends on if you are dealing with a high fraud country or not and if front loading is expected.  Vietnam has documentation the consulate likes to see that others don't require.  Honduras may have its own requirements. - Jason 

Where did you find information of what documents the consulate likes to see??

[JasonGG 280]

8 minutes ago, Difrntway said:

Where did you find information of what documents the consulate likes to see??

We got most of our information from the Vietnamese embassy reviews on this site and the regional forum.  The embassy reviews often include questions people were asked at their interviews and additional documents requested.  Some reviews provide detailed guidance for what happens when you arrive for your interview.  You can find the reviews for Honduras here - https://www.visajourney.com/reviews/index.php?cnty=Honduras&cty=&dfilter=5

 

If you have specific questions related to Honduras, you can try the regional forum.  Members who have gone through the process for your country often visit these forums to assist others.  Honduras would be included in this forum - https://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/96-mexico-latin-south-america/.

 

We learned about all of the Vietnam-specific documentation we needed, what to include in our K1 application that many other countries do not require, and how to prepare for the visa interview from these webpages.  Keep in mind, front loading is not going to have an impact on NOA2, it is to provide additional documentation to the consulate officer who is reviewing your case at the consulate..  In Vietnam, the decision to approve/deny an application is usually made before the interview.  In difficult countries (like Vietnam and I suspect Honduras also), you want to provide as much information as possible to influence that decision before the interview.   Our goal was to leave the consulate with an approval, not a blue slip requesting additional information.  We were successful and with the help of others who have gone through Honduras, you should be also! 😃

 

Jason

[Difrntway 28]

3 minutes ago, JasonGG said:

We got most of our information from the Vietnamese embassy reviews on this site and the regional forum.  The embassy reviews often include questions people were asked at their interviews and additional documents requested.  Some reviews provide detailed guidance for what happens when you arrive for your interview.  You can find the reviews for Honduras here - https://www.visajourney.com/reviews/index.php?cnty=Honduras&cty=&dfilter=5

 

If you have specific questions related to Honduras, you can try the regional forum.  Members who have gone through the process for your country often visit these forums to assist others.  Honduras would be included in this forum - https://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/96-mexico-latin-south-america/.

 

We learned about all of the Vietnam-specific documentation we needed, what to include in our K1 application that many other countries do not require, and how to prepare for the visa interview from these webpages.  Keep in mind, front loading is not going to have an impact on NOA2, it is to provide additional documentation to the consulate officer who is reviewing your case at the consulate..  In Vietnam, the decision to approve/deny an application is usually made before the interview.  In difficult countries (like Vietnam and I suspect Honduras also), you want to provide as much information as possible to influence that decision before the interview.   Our goal was to leave the consulate with an approval, not a blue slip requesting additional information.  We were successful and with the help of others who have gone through Honduras, you should be also! 😃

 

Jason

Thank you so much.  I cant think of a more complete answer.  I am just beginning with Visa Journey so i still struggle with navigating the site but you just provided me 2 very good guides.  I totally agree with you that they make a decision before the interview so i do want to make my initial application as strong as possible.  You just provided me with a ton of help.

[JasonGG 280]

4 hours ago, Difrntway said:

Thank you so much.  I cant think of a more complete answer.  I am just beginning with Visa Journey so i still struggle with navigating the site but you just provided me 2 very good guides.  I totally agree with you that they make a decision before the interview so i do want to make my initial application as strong as possible.  You just provided me with a ton of help.

I am glad I could help.  The process can be incredibly overwhelming and seems to be never-ending.  We finished the K1, then had to learn about adjusting status.  With that finished, we have to learn about removing conditions and then citizenship.  So many forms and things to learn, but luckily visajourney members have been so helpful.  Good luck to you and your fiance - Jason

[SmallTownPA 72]

11 hours ago, JasonGG said:

Ours was 300 pages...some double-sided! 🙂

Of which 290 pages were ignored.

[JasonGG 280]

9 hours ago, SmallTownPA said:

Of which 290 pages were ignored.

This comment is an example of why you should frequent the regional forum and Honduran consulate reviews for country-specific information.  Honduras is often listed as a "high fraud country," so there may be additional documents the Honduran consulate likes to see in a front-loaded application.  One of these documents - perhaps a relationship timeline or narrative relationship statement - may offer you an opportunity to mention your September visit along with an offer to provide evidence of that visit during the interview. 

 

In the end, my wife's K1 and her children's K2 visas were approved after answering a few questions that demonstrated the officer had given our "lump of paper" much more than a cursory glance.  Follow the advice from others who have gone through Honduras and your fiance should be with you soon.  - Jason

[Difrntway 28]

58 minutes ago, JasonGG said:

This comment is an example of why you should frequent the regional forum and Honduran consulate reviews for country-specific information.  Honduras is often listed as a "high fraud country," so there may be additional documents the Honduran consulate likes to see in a front-loaded application.  One of these documents - perhaps a relationship timeline or narrative relationship statement - may offer you an opportunity to mention your September visit along with an offer to provide evidence of that visit during the interview. 

 

In the end, my wife's K1 and her children's K2 visas were approved after answering a few questions that demonstrated the officer had given our "lump of paper" much more than a cursory glance.  Follow the advice from others who have gone through Honduras and your fiance should be with you soon.  - Jason

Thank you again Jason.  I am definitely going to be following your advice as you have actually offered valuable help instead of just some off hand comment.  And thank you for caring so much as i am a stranger to you and you have kindly offered so much help and assistance to a lost and lonely soul.

[SmallTownPA 72]

10 hours ago, JasonGG said:

This comment is an example of why you should frequent the regional forum and Honduran consulate reviews for country-specific information.  Honduras is often listed as a "high fraud country," so there may be additional documents the Honduran consulate likes to see in a front-loaded application.  One of these documents - perhaps a relationship timeline or narrative relationship statement - may offer you an opportunity to mention your September visit along with an offer to provide evidence of that visit during the interview. 

 

In the end, my wife's K1 and her children's K2 visas were approved after answering a few questions that demonstrated the officer had given our "lump of paper" much more than a cursory glance.  Follow the advice from others who have gone through Honduras and your fiance should be with you soon.  - Jason

USCIS has a limited number of things you need to do to get to the consulate.  If your packet is more than 20 pages, including the I-129F you are wasting paper.

 

Once you get to the consulate, THEY need proof of an ongoing relationship, which can can be brought by the beneficiary.  USCIS needs ONE thing: proof that you met IN PERSON once in the last two years.  USICS, nor NVC have anything to do with fraud detection.  Only criminal background checks.

 

If you have an official list of 'high fraud' countries (from USCIS, not some rando web site) I'd like to see it.  None of the google results of 'K1 high fraud' even had Hondorus on the their (dubious) rankings.  Of what I can find, Mexico, Brazil, Nigeria, Dominican Republic and China were listed in a Sept 2012 GAO report https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/library/P6688.pdf

 

What surprising is that in the report, in 2004, Mexico had a 31% K1 refusal rate.  By 2011 it had dropped to 11%.  While India were at 20% and 30%, respectively.   Brazil, had a shockingly low 4% K1 refusal rate but was STILL classified as 'high fraud'.

 

This report:

https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/NIVDetailTables/FY17NIVDetailTable.pdf

 

Shows Hondorus with 254 K1 visas granted FY2017.  China only had 975.  

 

Sending all that paperwork to USCIS is just not the proper time to send it.

 

[JasonGG 280]

13 minutes ago, SmallTownPA said:

USCIS has a limited number of things you need to do to get to the consulate.  If your packet is more than 20 pages, including the I-129F you are wasting paper.

 

Once you get to the consulate, THEY need proof of an ongoing relationship, which can can be brought by the beneficiary.  USCIS needs ONE thing: proof that you met IN PERSON once in the last two years.  USICS, nor NVC have anything to do with fraud detection.  Only criminal background checks.

 

If you have an official list of 'high fraud' countries (from USCIS, not some rando web site) I'd like to see it.  None of the google results of 'K1 high fraud' even had Hondorus on the their (dubious) rankings.  Of what I can find, Mexico, Brazil, Nigeria, Dominican Republic and China were listed in a Sept 2012 GAO report https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/library/P6688.pdf

 

What surprising is that in the report, in 2004, Mexico had a 31% K1 refusal rate.  By 2011 it had dropped to 11%.  While India were at 20% and 30%, respectively.   Brazil, had a shockingly low 4% K1 refusal rate but was STILL classified as 'high fraud'.

 

This report:

https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/NIVDetailTables/FY17NIVDetailTable.pdf

 

Shows Hondorus with 254 K1 visas granted FY2017.  China only had 975.  

 

Sending all that paperwork to USCIS is just not the proper time to send it.

 

Google results should not be the basis for country-specific advice.  I don't know how we could have limited our packet to 20 pages when USCIS instructions clearly state that the 13 page 129F application must be accompanied by proof of meeting, letters of intent, divorce records, petitioner's birth certificate, cover letter, etc.  My wife's divorce decree was 9 pages and my own was 3.  The forums are full of upset couples posting that they received RFE's because they sent too little proof of meeting and their ongoing relationship thus delaying NOA2.  Why risk it to save a little postage?

 

As noted in my previous comments and echoed by your own posts, front-loaded applications are not meant for USCIS staff, but the consulate officers making a decision on applications prior to the interview.  (Pre-interview decisions are a common practice in many country's that a VisaJourney or Google search should make fairly evident.)  I would be shocked if there were many recent beneficiaries from  Morocco, Pakistan, Cambodia, or many other consulates in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, Africa, or Central and South America who received their visa approval at the interview based on a 20-page 129F packet.

 

The National Visa Center is very much involved with visa fraud detection.  They have an office specifically assigned to do just that called the Fraud Prevention Unit.  My coworker was a Fraud Prevention Manager at the NVC in Portsmouth, NH.

 

Suffice it to say, what I did worked for me and others in Vietnam.  I am sure the OP will get excellent advice from those who have gone through Honduras in the regional forum.  Best wishes to you and the OP on your journeys. - Jason

[Zoeeeeeee 797]

5 hours ago, JasonGG said:

Google results should not be the basis for country-specific advice.  I don't know how we could have limited our packet to 20 pages when USCIS instructions clearly state that the 13 page 129F application must be accompanied by proof of meeting, letters of intent, divorce records, petitioner's birth certificate, cover letter, etc.  My wife's divorce decree was 9 pages and my own was 3.  The forums are full of upset couples posting that they received RFE's because they sent too little proof of meeting and their ongoing relationship thus delaying NOA2.  Why risk it to save a little postage?

 

As noted in my previous comments and echoed by your own posts, front-loaded applications are not meant for USCIS staff, but the consulate officers making a decision on applications prior to the interview.  (Pre-interview decisions are a common practice in many country's that a VisaJourney or Google search should make fairly evident.)  I would be shocked if there were many recent beneficiaries from  Morocco, Pakistan, Cambodia, or many other consulates in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, Africa, or Central and South America who received their visa approval at the interview based on a 20-page 129F packet.

 

The National Visa Center is very much involved with visa fraud detection.  They have an office specifically assigned to do just that called the Fraud Prevention Unit.  My coworker was a Fraud Prevention Manager at the NVC in Portsmouth, NH.

 

Suffice it to say, what I did worked for me and others in Vietnam.  I am sure the OP will get excellent advice from those who have gone through Honduras in the regional forum.  Best wishes to you and the OP on your journeys. - Jason

I have to say, I can see both your point and @SmallTownPA‘s. I definitely understand front loading your petition if from a high fraud area...however, I also think that 300 pages is excessive - and could actually harm your petition - let me explain.

 

I work in corporate communications and one of the things that we’re reminded of in every training session I’ve been to over the years, is that your reader doesn’t necessarily have the time or the interest to read everything you write. You need to be concise and clear - because if your reader’s skimming the content, they’ll miss the important information if it’s buried under 250 other pages of waffle.

 

So I’m not saying there’s a hard and fast rule of only 20 pages - but I’d question if it’s possible to have 200 pages of A-grade, quality evidence. It’s more likely there’s 20, 30, 40, maybe even 50 pages of good evidence (and maybe that’s pushing it), and the rest are ok...you don’t want the good stuff to be buried by the ok stuff, cause the ok stuff is probably not sufficient on its own to get you approved.

 

An example - you don’t need to include any photos with your petition, as it doesn’t prove you’ve actually met within the last two years - but I get why you might want to, particularly from a high fraud country. We included 5 photos - they showed us having fun in different locations - and only took up 2 A4 pages. We could’ve included 20 pages of photos, but it really wouldn’t have made any difference. They saw a picture of us in England, in California, in Washington, in Vancouver - they don’t need to see 20 photos from California, or a shot of every town in England that we visited - it proves nothing extra.

 

So yeah, I get that you might want to include ‘extras’...but I’d definitely recommend considering the volume of these and how much quality they actually add - and does adding multiples of the same thing achieve anything?

 

Good luck in your journey OP.

[SmallTownPA 72]

To clarify the PROCESS.  There are TWO parts.

 

The I-129F done by USCIS is to vette the beneficiary and petitioner are not criminals.  That's it.  Every question on the I-129F is to make sure you are eligible for the visa.   Please show me where, in the I-129F documents is says you need to show PROOF OF A RELATIONSHIP.  All is asks, in Part 2, question 53:  "Have you and your Fiance(e) met in person during the last two years immediately prior to filing this petition."  That's a ticket, a visa entry stamp and maybe a photo.  PERIOD.

 

The second part, done AT THE CONSULATE.  Your fiencee can lug all those dead pages to the consulate with her.  Don't force the USCIS to deal with all that fluff.  

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/family-immigration/nonimmigrant-visa-for-a-fiance-k-1.html

The Second Step: Applying for a Visa

 

The NVC will mail you a letter when it sends your fiancé(e) case to the U.S. Embassy or Consulate. Once you receive this letter, inform your fiancé(e) to take the below-listed actions to apply for a K-1 visa and prepare for the interview.

Eligible children of K-1 visa applicants may apply for K-2 visas. Separate applications must be submitted for each K visa applicant, and each K visa applicant must pay the visa application fee.

 

Required Documentation

 

You, the foreign-citizen fiancé(e), (and eligible children applying for K-2 visas) will be required to bring the following forms and documents to the visa interview:  (ninja edit: USCIS does not conduct the interview, do they?)

• Completed Form DS-160, Online Nonimmigrant Visa Application. You (and any eligible children applying for K-2 visas) must: (1) complete Form DS-160 and (2) print the DS-160 confirmation page to bring to your interview. 
• A passport valid for travel to the United States and with a validity date at least six months beyond your intended period of stay in the U.S. (unless country-specific agreements provide exemptions).
• Divorce or death certificate(s) of any previous spouse(s) for both you and the U.S. citizen sponsor
• Police certificates from your present country of residence and all countries where you have lived for six months or more since age 16 (Police certificates are also required for accompanying children age 16 or older)
• Medical examination (vaccinations are optional, see below)
• Evidence of financial support (Form I-134, Affidavit of Support, may be requested)
• Two (2) 2x2 photographs. See the required photo format explained in Photograph Requirements
• Evidence of relationship with your U.S. citizen fiancé(e)
• Payment of fees, as explained below

Note: The consular officer may ask for additional information, such as photographs and other proof that the relationship with your U.S. citizen fiancé(e) is genuine. Documents in foreign languages, other than the language of the country in which the application takes place, should be translated. Applicants should take to the visa interview clear, legible photocopies of civil documents and translations, such as birth and divorce certificates. Original documents and translations will be returned.

 

The sad fact is that so many 'old wives tales' are being told here, and much of the stickied posts are so out of date that it's laughable.  No, USCIS doesn't want your goofy love chat transcripts, or photos.  The CONSULATE does.  

 

And yes, my wife was from an ACTUAL, DOCUMENTED in USCIS reports,  High fraud country, China. Unlike Honduras, which I cannot find in any list.

Edited June 7, 2019 by SmallTownPA

[midwinterrose 275]

38 minutes ago, SmallTownPA said:

The sad fact is that so many 'old wives tales' are being told here, and much of the stickied posts are so out of date that it's laughable.  No, USCIS doesn't want your goofy love chat transcripts, or photos.  The CONSULATE does.  

The point you seem to be missing, perhaps on purpose, is that in some cases the CO at the CONSULATE doesn't look at your evidence, so one way to make them accept it is by sending it as part of the original petition submission that they will receivefrom USCIS.  There are many tales of people attending the interview with their 300 pages of evidence and the CO not even looking at it or accepting it from the beneficiary. This happens occasionally for both approvals and denials, so the consensus is that the CO often has already basically made a decision before the beneficiary arrives, so the best way to influence their decision is to send favorable evidence from the very beginning to USCIS. They can still easily ignore the evidence, but I bet they are more likely to look through it if they already have it in your file.

 

Our K1 and AOS packets we sent were both pretty bare-bones, and we had no issues, but it was a low-fraud country. We were asked for evidence of our relationship at the embassy and we provided mostly photos which they looked through. At the AOS interview I had a heavy accordion folder full of papers, but she just looked over our bank statement and utility bills and handed them back and didn't even want copies. She didn't even ask to see wedding photos. It definitely felt like she had already made a decision based on the evidence she already had, and the interview was mostly a formality.

 

So I understand the front-loading mentality, though I really do think there's such a thing as too much.  I imagine a case could be better presented in 50-75 pages than in 300, but to each their own, I guess. 🤷‍♀️

 

Also relevant to note, especially for K1s, is that they returned to us all the evidence we presented at the embassy interview, and I don't think it went into our file--the interviewer simply looked it over and returned it.  So for AOS, the only evidence the interviewer had was what we had originally submitted with the petition, and I presume some notes from the CO who interviewed us at the embassy.  And it seemed she had already made a decision based on what little she had.   So front-loading could potentially continue to be beneficial through AOS as well, and even through to ROC.  Considering our AOS interviewer didn't add any evidence to our file besides her notes, the only evidence of our relationship that the ROC interviewer will see before our interview will be the 20 photos I sent with the original petition. 🤔

[JasonGG 280]

Submit the minimum required by the 129F instructions or supply additional documents based on what others have recommended in the regional forums and consulate reviews.  Some choose to supply documents with the application for the consulate's benefit while others do not.  Whether it's 20 pages, 100 pages, or 300 pages, everyone's goal should be to submit an application that avoids RFEs prior to NOA2 and leads to a smooth interview that results in approval. 

 

The OP asked if her single visit was sufficient to petition for her fiance's K1 visa.  She certainly met the requirements to apply, but the advice offered was that she could include a statement or evidence of an upcoming trip to give the consulate a "heads up" that there will be more than one visit by the interview and that evidence could be provided at that time  I spoke of my own experience and urged the OP (and anyone else who may stumble upon the thread) to seek advice from others who succeeded in their respective countries.  What worked for my family in Vietnam is not universal. 

 

Every step of this process wastes paper and toner cartridges.  In a perfect world, everything would be electronic. less costly . . . and MUCH faster!  In the end, our application, resulted in a very easy interview and approval and helped prepare and organize our documents for 3 successful AOS interviews. That is really all that mattered.

 

 

 

 

[chassisboyz@yahoo 2]

On 6/5/2019 at 11:10 PM, SmallTownPA said:

Of which 290 pages were ignored.

Hi...everyone I've been trying to schedule a interview appointment in haiti for my fiance it's said...no available appointment does the embassy has specific they put out schedules?