sad weekend

[JamesT 12]

This whole story is very sad, and scary too especially for guys like me who are venturing into a very similar type of marriage with a Russian or Ukrainian woman. I've heard of several stories very similiar to skinsfan's, including from a fairly good friend of mine here in Atlanta. Everything was pretty much normal with their marriage for about 2 years, and then all of a sudden one day he came home and she had left and taken all of her belongings (and some of his) with her. Very little warning signs ahead of time that something like that was about to happen.

I pray that nothing like this happens to myself or anyone else on this forum, and I hope everything works out for the best for skinsfan.

[mendeleev 68]

skinfan,

I am so sorry to hear about this. You've been a helpful contributor on this and another board I follow. What to say -- I wish this were not happening to you.

Edited May 31, 2007 by novotul

[Satellite 1]

Everything was pretty much normal with their marriage for about 2 years, and then all of a sudden one day he came home and she had left and taken all of her belongings (and some of his) with her. Very little warning signs ahead of time that something like that was about to happen.

As a Russian speaker I have spoken to these ladies in the US who have "moved on" after their greencard marriage. As I see it now there are two groups of folks, those that pull the VAWA route and those that bite the pillow a little longer and wait for lifting conditions / citizenship.

These ladies come with a well hidden preconceived intent to marry for the green card for either a better life for themselves or their children.

Slim can chime in on all the usual signs of older guy, lack of mutual communication (relationship's can't work if you can't communicate beyond basic speech), etc.

Good luck in avoiding legal trouble, I-864 obligations, and other state divorce procedures.

[Nancy2015 2]

Wow, that sucks. I am very sorry to hear that I wonder how she intends to prove domestic violence when there wasn't any? Hope she loses. :angry: :angry: :angry:

[JamesT 12]

Everything was pretty much normal with their marriage for about 2 years, and then all of a sudden one day he came home and she had left and taken all of her belongings (and some of his) with her. Very little warning signs ahead of time that something like that was about to happen.

As a Russian speaker I have spoken to these ladies in the US who have "moved on" after their greencard marriage. As I see it now there are two groups of folks, those that pull the VAWA route and those that bite the pillow a little longer and wait for lifting conditions / citizenship.

These ladies come with a well hidden preconceived intent to marry for the green card for either a better life for themselves or their children.

Slim can chime in on all the usual signs of older guy, lack of mutual communication (relationship's can't work if you can't communicate beyond basic speech), etc.

Good luck in avoiding legal trouble, I-864 obligations, and other state divorce procedures.

What percentage of these ladies that meet an American man through a "marriage agency" or online would you say have these evil intentions from the beginning? Do you think it's more then a third? Or maybe as high as 50%? Unfortunately I think it's quite a high percentage.

[GOLDEN.247 0]

I'm very sorry for you and the situation she has put you in. I hope that you have a speedy and positive out come.

[Satellite 1]

What percentage of these ladies that meet an American man through a "marriage agency" or online would you say have these evil intentions from the beginning? Do you think it's more then a third? Or maybe as high as 50%? Unfortunately I think it's quite a high percentage.

I think it is even higher, probably 75% if not more. Mostly because, placing yourself on some online agency is stating to the world that (1) you are for sale, (2) you are seeking a better life and a way out of Russia. The whole story about Russian men being drunkards and unsuccessful is not 100% true. The Russian economy (government) is to blame why only 10% are able to live at an American standard of living. So there are successful Russian men. But as I understand these men are hard to get, because there are few of them and a lot of these women who post themselves online probably have a child or two and have gone through a divorce thus making them less attractive to Russian men. Likewise many of these women were unable to reach a high standard of living in Russia through their own abilities for one reason or another.

Similarly few Russian women would jump at the opportunity to marry an unattractive older man who resides in Russia.

(You can test this in the alternative and try to see how many US girls of the same characteristics will far for the older unattractive US man.)

By being from the US or Europe the Russian women are able to justify this otherwise unthinkable relationship.

I do believe that most of these women give the relationship they found online a try, but if it is not what they hoped it would be they return to their original plan of green card and run.

Personally I have been invited to such a family where a beautiful Russian women of 27 married a 55-year-old real estate magnet. At the dinner table she would tell her husband in a sweat voice, "какой ты страшны и большой дурак", and he would respond with, "I love you too honey."

Hopefully my opinion didn't offend anyone, I base it only on the personal conversations I have had with the Russian ladies both in Russia and in the US. This topic and the end result always fascinates me and honestly if you step back away from thee branches and look at the entire forest you will begin to understand why this result is not that surprising in the big scheme of things.

[Nancy2015 2]

What percentage of these ladies that meet an American man through a "marriage agency" or online would you say have these evil intentions from the beginning? Do you think it's more then a third? Or maybe as high as 50%? Unfortunately I think it's quite a high percentage.

I think it is even higher, probably 75% if not more. Mostly because, placing yourself on some online agency is stating to the world that (1) you are for sale, (2) you are seeking a better life and a way out of Russia.

I agree 200%.

And the whole story of the Russian men being drunkards and losers was invented by online dating agencies as some sort of reassurance for American men that these ladies really want to "marry a nice guy", and not just immigrate. I think it's BS, and I too hope I'm not offending anyone.

[RussianGirl 0]

I'm so sorry! Best of luck!

[Milenka 0]

What percentage of these ladies that meet an American man through a "marriage agency" or online would you say have these evil intentions from the beginning? Do you think it's more then a third? Or maybe as high as 50%? Unfortunately I think it's quite a high percentage.

I think it is even higher, probably 75% if not more. Mostly because, placing yourself on some online agency is stating to the world that (1) you are for sale, (2) you are seeking a better life and a way out of Russia.

I agree 200%.

And the whole story of the Russian men being drunkards and losers was invented by online dating agencies as some sort of reassurance for American men that these ladies really want to "marry a nice guy", and not just immigrate. I think it's BS, and I too hope I'm not offending anyone.

Not to get off topic, but I am glad that someone finally said that Jewel, since my fiance is a Russian guy. He doesn't even drink at all! I have heard that story too many times...It's very sad what's happened to skinsfan, and to anyone else in the same situation. Milena.

[Turboguy 6]

Sometimes the stories are far worse. Many times the man returns to find the house empty and the police there carting him off to jail.

Our DV laws are not very fair. American justice is supposed to be based on presumption of innocence until guilt is prove, with DV it is the other way and since the things supposidly went on behind closed doors it is hard to prove innocence.

Do talk to Maxx. There are steps you should be taking. If you have any problems finding him let me know and I will find him for you.

[Blues Fairy 0]

And the whole story of the Russian men being drunkards and losers was invented by online dating agencies as some sort of reassurance for American men that these ladies really want to "marry a nice guy", and not just immigrate. I think it's BS, and I too hope I'm not offending anyone.

I agree, but you have to acknowledge that an educated Russian woman in her 30-s is far likelier to find an adequate husband abroad than in Russia. The fact that she posts her profile does not automatically prove that she's a green card opportunist.

Personally I couldn't care less where to live, but I do very much care WITH WHOM to live - and my chances to marry well in my home country are objectively small. 95% of decent men in my age group are either happily married or divorced with kids and not looking to start a new family.

[wissooner 0]

I think it is even higher, probably 75% if not more. Mostly because, placing yourself on some online agency is stating to the world that (1) you are for sale, (2) you are seeking a better life and a way out of Russia. The whole story about Russian men being drunkards and unsuccessful is not 100% true. The Russian economy (government) is to blame why only 10% are able to live at an American standard of living. So there are successful Russian men. But as I understand these men are hard to get, because there are few of them and a lot of these women who post themselves online probably have a child or two and have gone through a divorce thus making them less attractive to Russian men. Likewise many of these women were unable to reach a high standard of living in Russia through their own abilities for one reason or another.

Similarly few Russian women would jump at the opportunity to marry an unattractive older man who resides in Russia.

(You can test this in the alternative and try to see how many US girls of the same characteristics will far for the older unattractive US man.)

By being from the US or Europe the Russian women are able to justify this otherwise unthinkable relationship.

I do believe that most of these women give the relationship they found online a try, but if it is not what they hoped it would be they return to their original plan of green card and run.

Personally I have been invited to such a family where a beautiful Russian women of 27 married a 55-year-old real estate magnet. At the dinner table she would tell her husband in a sweat voice, "какой ты страшны и большой дурак", and he would respond with, "I love you too honey."

Hopefully my opinion didn't offend anyone, I base it only on the personal conversations I have had with the Russian ladies both in Russia and in the US. This topic and the end result always fascinates me and honestly if you step back away from thee branches and look at the entire forest you will begin to understand why this result is not that surprising in the big scheme of things.

I would tend to agree. I think that there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to back your claim. It will be interesting to see what this whole 'MOB scene' is like in 5 or 10 years. Probably still going strong. Men will probably still be getting scammed. Although I have to believe that as word of month gets out that the pool of men interested in a Russian women will drop. Maybe not...

[bruc 0]

As many times as I've been to Russia I've only seen one drunk Russian man and he looked as if he had been drunk all of his life. I see more drunks when I'm in Atlanta than over there.

Every Russian man that I've come in contact with has either been very nice or just ignored me .

My community, even though small and in the mountains, has a lot of Russian women and kids here married to more or less us hillbilly's that are college educated and successful in business. I personally know a lot of them and their husbands.

My best Russian wife friend here told me one day that Russian women would rather be married to a Russian man but the good one's are taken and most of the others can't make-up their mind which bed to visit, his wife's or one of his girlfriends....I have no idea about this.

She has also been here for about 7 years and has been a tremendous help in helping me understand my fiance and I value her friendship and advice.

I've heard of only one Russian girl here dumping her husband for another man, I also heard HE is the one that had his priorities in the wrong place not her.

I've asked women in Russia on my trips would they like to find and American man...they all said NO...only a Russian man.

I was in a conversation recently discussing the "mail order bride business" and the concensous was that it's getting more difficult to find a woman from Russia and Ukraine that actually wants to leave their country , family and friends and marry a foreign man.

I feel blessed that I have one that wants to but it took her a year to believe and trust in me that I would love her and her daughter and take very good care of them.

When I read the stories about the wives that hang around long enough to get a green card and feel the hurt in the guy's post, it really saddens me to know that this is a risk all of us have to take...but we took a risk with our first mate's also.

bruc

[slim 1,525]

Only have a couple of seconds here, but quickly....

Go to your local cops right now. Fill out an incident report or written statement of some kind. Sit down with the sergeant or the captain or whoever is in charge there (Sheriff, maybe?) and basically just tell them what's going on and that you want to cover your @$$ when it comes time to go to court.

9 times out of 10, these guys have seen something like this happen before, and will actually do what they can to help you out. If you can get your side of the story on paper with a legal signature "swearing" that it's the truth as told to them, that goes a long way when you go to court and it's just her and her lawyer (and probably her "guy that needed advice") there saying "he did this and he did that." You can counter with a sworn statement as witnessed by a cop that "she said I did this and said I did that, but I never did anything like that.... as a matter of fact, look at all the GOOD STUFF I did for her."

Make sure you cover your @$$ with good hard evidence. She was in a car crash, you bought her a new car. You paid for the chiropractor. You took care of her kids for 6 weeks while she was off chasing strange men. She obviously didn't miss family at home... she couldn't even take her kids with her. Things like this can paint a good picture in a judge's eye when it comes to domestic violence charges. She has to prove you did something, and that's pretty hard to do. It's VERY HARD to do when you've got proof that you've been nothing but an excellent husband/father.

Paint the picture that she's a money-grubbing green card scammer, and chances are, they'll see it too.

Keep us posted... GOOD LUCK!!!

And to everyone else out there..... there are signs. If you start to see them, don't deny you're seeing them. Don't say "I'm not jealous." Don't say "well, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt." DON'T DO THAT!!!! YOU'VE GOT TO COVER YOUR @$$. Do it now! She can love you all day every day, but if/when she changes her mind, you've gotta be ready! Love is great.... but it's got nothing to do with being successful if things go awry. You prepared hard to be together.... you should be as prepared to be apart!

Edited May 31, 2007 by slim